Australia v England Test 1 Sat. July 2 @1955

[eastman]

The worse thing about the head but is that Swain basically stopped to think. And then proceeded to follow through. Dumb.

Surely, it's a mitigating factor that the head but just wasn't very hard?

 

[Pfitzy]

Surely, it's a mitigating factor that the head but just wasn't very hard?

Perhaps - really, intent should be the key, not the outcome.

That said, we also judge level of force in the high tackle framework, so...

 

[dru]

I'd be surprised if we lost both games by 30.

I feel unusually comfortable with our team at the moment. It's settled. Good mix of youth and experience. Depth in key spots.

We might not sweep all before us but maybe our floor is higher than it used to be? Our defence is solid, we can hang in games, and we're not prone to the brain snaps and tactical weirdness we saw in the past.

I've been thinking this post through a bit, so good work Baba. Also your response to the "favourite chestnut" - which easily could have been me.

On reflection I heartily concur and I'm walking with a bit more pep in my step. Our floor is higher. Our D is solid. We are not prone to the tactical weirdness of the past. [RIP barn dance.]

We've just cranked up a spot on the rankings, and if we keep playing solidly we may well stay there. Welcome back to the top 5 Wallabies. If the All Blacks do the right thing and keep thumping Ireland, and we keep squeaking in front of the POMs, we are going to go close to climbing another spot.

Is that optimism I am feeling? Hell it's been a while stranger, but welcome back.

 

[liquor box]

Perhaps - really, intent should be the key, not the outcome.

That said, we also judge level of force in the high tackle framework, so...

I have always thought possible outcome should determine what the penalty is.

Think of a tip tackle, the penalty should be based on whether a player could end up in a wheel chair, not on whether the tackler intended to paralyse him.

What if a player only wants to rub the eyeball during an eye gouge, not blind the player?

 

[Braveheart81]

I have always thought possible outcome should determine what the penalty is.

Think of a tip tackle, the penalty should be based on whether a player could end up in a wheel chair, not on whether the tackler intended to paralyse him.

What if a player only wants to rub the eyeball during an eye gouge, not blind the player?

The issue is you can't judge intent for most acts of foul play because most of them relate to dangerous tackles.

I think possible outcome is accurate. It's judging based on the action rather than the actual outcome. The fact that a player didn't get injured by a dangerous act shouldn't be mitigation in my view.

We're trying to get rid of the dangerous acts, not saying that the dangerous acts are not too bad as long as they didn't result in serious injury.

On a side note, the AFL is the worst at this. They look very strongly at the actual outcome which is stupid in my view.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Swain gets two weeks:

Independent disciplinary process update: Darcy Swain (Australia) | World Rugby

Australia second row Darcy Swain has been suspended for two weeks after appearing before an independent Judicial Committee via video link, having received a red card for an act of foul play contrary to Law 9.12 (a player must not physically abuse anyone) in Australia’s test match against England...

www.world.rugby

Must've been adjudged low end (at least one article I read said it was minimum mid-range by definition) & the 50% reduction applied. Probably a fair outcome given the provocation & lack of action wrt the shove in the face he got earlier.

 

[Braveheart81]

Swain gets two weeks:

Independent disciplinary process update: Darcy Swain (Australia) | World Rugby

Australia second row Darcy Swain has been suspended for two weeks after appearing before an independent Judicial Committee via video link, having received a red card for an act of foul play contrary to Law 9.12 (a player must not physically abuse anyone) in Australia’s test match against England...

www.world.rugby

Must've been adjudged low end (at least one article I read said it was minimum mid-range by definition) & the 50% reduction applied. Probably a fair outcome given the provocation & lack of action wrt the shove in the face he got earlier.

It was low end which is 6 weeks and then was halved and then reduced by a further week.

 

[Joe Blow]

The team for Saturday, and in particular the halves, will be ready to role on the weekend after a full weeks prep together and I think we can be safe in assuming that they will not face as much adversity this time around.
Playing with Quade at 10 and with Noah at 10 are two very different propositions. Adding TT and Philip to the starting side should give us a little more grunt as well. Our scrum will be arguably stronger and our lineout defence not quite as good.
Looking forward to it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Playing with Quade at 10 and with Noah at 10 are two very different propositions.

I think the key now is that it shouldn't be.

The biggest improvement in Quade's game last year was that he just did his job, led the backline around and didn't try and overplay his hand. He did it really well but largely it meant that we didn't need a totally different game plan when he wasn't in the side.

 

[Dave Beat]

It May have been pointed out in these threads,
Kellaway was a schoolboy star signed too early based on reputation - went away and learned to play with adults, doing great things now.
Porecki after serving a good apprenticeship in the Shute Shield further developed his game with men - a great debut.
Pensioner Neville - started in 4th grade and learned the craft through the Shute Shield and developed further before his chance - great debut.

Great seeing hard work and dedication be rewarded.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

It May have been pointed out in these threads,
Kellaway was a schoolboy star signed too early based on reputation - went away and learned to play with adults, doing great things now.
Porecki after serving a good apprenticeship in the Shute Shield further developed his game with men - a great debut.
Pensioner Neville - started in 4th grade and learned the craft through the Shute Shield and developed further before his chance - great debut.

Great seeing hard work and dedication be rewarded.

I am not sure that these 2 are the greatest examples of players developed by the Shute Shield into Wallabies. Porecki left for overseas at about 22 and Neville has has professional contracts since 2012 having only taken the game in 2009. If rugby didn't sign Kellaway at 18, what's to say we wouldn't have lost him to League. My suspicion is that Kellaway didn't gel with Cheika Gibson at the Waratahs and leaving allowed him to reach his potential.

 

[Derpus]

I am not sure that these 2 are the greatest examples of players developed by the Shute Shield into Wallabies. Porecki left for overseas at about 22 and Neville has has professional contracts since 2012 having only taken the game in 2009. If rugby didn't sign Kellaway at 18, what's to say we wouldn't have lost him to League. My suspicion is that Kellaway didn't gel with Cheika at the Waratahs and leaving allowed him to reach his potential.

Kellaway didn't really come into the team much until after Cheika had left.

He played plenty but he was young and a little undeveloped. The concern remains why Aussies are going to Europe to realise their potential rather than kicking on here

 

[cyclopath]

Kellaway didn't really come into the team much until after Cheika had left.

He played plenty but he was young and a little undeveloped. The concern remains why Aussies are going to Europe to realise their potential rather than kicking on here

Largely because they get the opportunity in the NH to play far more rugby, in terms of number of games.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Kellaway didn't really come into the team much until after Cheika had left.

He played plenty but he was young and a little undeveloped. The concern remains why Aussies are going to Europe to realise their potential rather than kicking on here

oops, I actually meant to write Gibson. Must have had Cheika on the brain.

 

[Dave Beat]

I am not sure that these 2 are the greatest examples of players developed by the Shute Shield into Wallabies. Porecki left for overseas at about 22 and Neville has has professional contracts since 2012 having only taken the game in 2009. If rugby didn't sign Kellaway at 18, what's to say we wouldn't have lost him to League. My suspicion is that Kellaway didn't gel with Cheika Gibson at the Waratahs and leaving allowed him to reach his potential.

Kellaway didn't really come into the team much until after Cheika had left.

He played plenty but he was young and a little undeveloped. The concern remains why Aussies are going to Europe to realise their potential rather than kicking on here

E&E both spent time in the SS and also abroad to learn their craft - learning craft - is more the point I was trying to make rather than sign schoolboy superstars.

D that's the other point do players improve by playing offshore in a global game - a number of players have returned from the NH comp improved players, and more recently returning from Japan improved surprisingly.

I believe rugby has a choice - risk losing players to league, or risk losing them offshore - our professional comp is limited to 4 / 5 teams, whereas league in Aus has how many clubs now?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Wallabies injury crisis worsens as Kellaway ruled out of second Test

Jordan Petaia will wear the Wallabies No.15 jersey for the first time in his career on Saturday following a hamstring injury to Andrew Kellaway at training this week.

www.smh.com.au

Kellaway out.... Wright into the wing?

Rae Rae

 

[dru]

It May have been pointed out in these threads,
Kellaway was a schoolboy star signed too early based on reputation - went away and learned to play with adults, doing great things now.
Porecki after serving a good apprenticeship in the Shute Shield further developed his game with men - a great debut.
Pensioner Neville - started in 4th grade and learned the craft through the Shute Shield and developed further before his chance - great debut.

Great seeing hard work and dedication be rewarded.

Great to see you back, Dave.

 

[Braveheart81]

During Kellaway's last season at the Tahs he looked unfit and disinterested.

I think he was one of those players where everything came very easy to him at schoolboy level and he was a superstar and then it didn't immediately transfer to the professional game.

He needed that reality check to realise that he had to work really hard and heading overseas for a couple as part of that helped.

I don't think he was signed too early. He was always going to be signed based on his talent. Some players are immediately ready to do the work required to be a professional and others aren't. It's not exactly an uncommon situation where prodigious youngsters stall in their introduction to adult rugby as a professional.

 

[Derpus]

Kellaway out is a problem. Wright to the wing and Perese/Vuni to the bench I guess.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I agree. Don't think it would be the best idea to have Petaia in his first game starting full back with Vunivalu debuting on a Wing. Wright tends to play a bit like a fullback as well which can help with kick returns etc..

Rae Rae