Australia v England: Match III, SCG, Sat 16th July 7.55pm AEST

[Pfitzy]

I don't really know because you can't just decide that one of the states Club comps becomes that next level as it knee caps the other instantly.

Similarly, if you open up a national comp (The "New" NRC or TNNRC ) where any club can apply for a licence, to field a team you instantly create a tier system that will end up like English Premier Rugby i.e. the 12 clubs on the inside are basically never getting kicked out. The clubs in the second tier need to have a certain size membership base, ground seating size etc in order to be considered, and can't get there on what they have. Well, short of a billionaire patron...

The clubs who aren't in the position to integrate into that comp immediately become outsiders for the rest of time. And look you could argue that has happened anyway in terms of who is capable of taking out Shute Shield, but this would probably exacerbate things overall.

What is the role then of the next tier?
Play for promotion/relegation against TNNRC bottom placed team(s)?
Become feeder clubs?
How many tiers can that financial model support?
What happens to things like Subbies in Sydney which is another level down?

 

[Tomikin]

Yep Irish union are doing things right, we see comments that they have more money to pay there Leinsters etc, but that is because they know their budget and don't have more teams than they can afford. They also 2nd and 3rd tier comps that help feed players up the chain I think.
I not in anyway saying the system would work in Aus or anywhere else, just seems a good system, have as many top div clubs as you can afford and then something like 50 clubs in 3 divisions, only playing 2 pro players at anytime.

They dont have a like for like sport who take all the extra players that may play union, lets be honest NRL is another 16 clubs we could support without it.

Once again Dan, your dig at Oz rugby not being able to support 5 teams is see-through.

 

[stillmissit]

Yep Irish union are doing things right, we see comments that they have more money to pay there Leinsters etc, but that is because they know their budget and don't have more teams than they can afford. They also 2nd and 3rd tier comps that help feed players up the chain I think.
I not in anyway saying the system would work in Aus or anywhere else, just seems a good system, have as many top div clubs as you can afford and then something like 50 clubs in 3 divisions, only playing 2 pro players at anytime.

Plus they bought an unwanted English coach - Owen Farrell's dad who has made a big difference in both attack and defence.

 

[Dan54]

That's in part due the loyalty of their rugby community that sells out all the games played in Dublin. Italy can't take advantage of that cause their community doesn't support them buying tickets or watching on TV

Yep too easy to underestimate how good the supporters are in these countries, fill out stadiums even when their team is struggling etc, and much of that is great history of game and clubs

 

[Dan54]

They dont have a like for like sport who take all the extra players that may play union, lets be honest NRL is another 16 clubs we could support without it.

Once again Dan, your dig at Oz rugby not being able to support 5 teams is see-through.

FFS Tomikin, I trying to say how some countries are doing things well and you are so stupid you think it a dig at Aus rugby, I also think these countries are doing better than NZR in development. You know that by saying someone is doing something well is not a dig at anyone. FFS!!
I pointed out why RA etc couldn't do it same, just don't have the history to transfer the lower level etc, not a dig at anyone. I would actually say their layers of rugby is similar to NRL, where you have plenty of feeder clubs to NRL clubs (which are well historically established), we can't change that so I think we can see another difference etc.
Did you think Marce was having a dig about how good their supporters are? No he was pointing out the different reasons for them having better money in smaller population etc!!!

 

[Dan54]

Plus they bought an unwanted English coach - Owen Farrell's dad who has made a big difference in both attack and defence.

Boy that's what you call a bloody good buy isn't it, can we get NZR to have a chat to them???

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

What happens to things like Subbies in Sydney which is another level down?

Complete unknown what it would do to Suburban Rugby. I tend to think it wouldn't cripple them as there may be players currently in 2nd grade down at Premier Clubs that wouldn't be assed or supported it clubs became more exclusive/professional style. Premier Clubs could become a 1st XV, A team, Women's and Academies like the UK, Ireland style. That leaves 45-60 guys not involved that they may send out to suburban or let them decide.

Lot of problems, no answers from me

Rae Rae

 

[stillmissit]

Similarly, if you open up a national comp (The "New" NRC or TNNRC ) where any club can apply for a licence, to field a team you instantly create a tier system that will end up like English Premier Rugby i.e. the 12 clubs on the inside are basically never getting kicked out. The clubs in the second tier need to have a certain size membership base, ground seating size etc in order to be considered, and can't get there on what they have. Well, short of a billionaire patron...

The clubs who aren't in the position to integrate into that comp immediately become outsiders for the rest of time. And look you could argue that has happened anyway in terms of who is capable of taking out Shute Shield, but this would probably exacerbate things overall.

What is the role then of the next tier?
Play for promotion/relegation against TNNRC bottom placed team(s)?
Become feeder clubs?
How many tiers can that financial model support?
What happens to things like Subbies in Sydney which is another level down?

Pfitzy, interesting post. I think we have a major issue in terms of talent ID. When I finished playing, I ref'd for years and was always surprised at the occasional player who was very good playing in subbies. I asked a few of them over the years why they hadn't stepped up and apart from an excellent 10 in St George area who wanted to play with his mates, the rest all said nobody ever asked them to try out for Shute Shield. The days of Bob Dwyer pulling players from 2nd grade into Wallabies has never been repeated. Yet league talent ID seems to be far more active.
In SS player poaching goes on within SS and rarely outside, has been my observation.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Pfitzy, interesting post. I think we have a major issue in terms of talent ID. When I finished playing, I ref'd for years and was always surprised at the occasional player who was very good playing in subbies. I asked a few of them over the years why they hadn't stepped up and apart from an excellent 10 in St George area who wanted to play with his mates, the rest all said nobody ever asked them to try out for Shute Shield. The days of Bob Dwyer pulling players from 2nd grade into Wallabies has never been repeated. Yet league talent ID seems to be far more active.
In SS player poaching goes on within SS and rarely outside, has been my observation.

The School Boy and Academies have become even more convoluted now because of funding squabbles and egos so I fear this may happen more.

Rae Rae

 

[Pfitzy]

Lot of problems, no answers from me

There isn't an option that will make everyone happy and save all parts of the game, unfortunately.

 

[stillmissit]

The odd one out that proves the limit is the Tahs breakaway Charlie Gamble, who I read somewhere played subbies rugby.

 

[qwerty51]

He came over from NZ, I'm guessing he didn't understand the difference in quality between subbies and club rugby. He was never a pure subbies player. He went straight into 1st grade afterwards.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

The odd one out that proves the limit is the Tahs breakaway Charlie Gamble, who I read somewhere played subbies rugby.

Indeed for Petersham and they had to convince Easts there was a Subbies bloke worth a look.

Tbf he was in the Cantebury Academy set up and said he needed a change after missing NZ U20s

Rae Rae

 

[stillmissit]

Indeed for Petersham and they had to convince Easts there was a Subbies bloke worth a look.

Tbf he was in the Cantebury Academy set up and said he needed a change after missing NZ U20s

Rae Rae

Thanks Rae Rae, I always enjoy hearing the background of players.

 

[qwerty51]

Thanks Rae Rae, I always enjoy hearing the background of players.

From the world’s best club to Sydney subbies: How the Waratahs unearthed a hidden star

Charlie Gamble was set for big things as a Crusaders junior, but setbacks saw him playing park footy in Sydney. Now a NSW star, he takes on his old team on Saturday.

www.smh.com.au

If you want to read more

 

[gel]

Ultimately that was a game about little things we didn't execute. All in the first ten minutes:

- Frost charges down from the kickoff but can't regather - not really a crime as we're still in their half.
- Tupou leans in at the subsequent scrum and we get short armed rather than putting some pressure on (penalty to us thereafter)
- Lolesio missing a regulation 3
- Hodge totally fluffing a pass to Wright which was a tryscoring opportunity in the 22
(Paul Williams not calling "use it once" to an England maul going backward at the next lineout was, well.... )
- Tupou getting through the line and absolutely butchering a pass to Frost with the line wide open

Can't win games even against a mediocre England if you're not going to get your one percenters right.

It's not one percenters though. One percenters are the Bogan Barrett style pickups or any single thing a standard NRL player does every other weekend.

The things you've listed are just standard and should be executed 90 times out of a hundred.

 

[Members Section]

Okay finally home,

Pro : Got to see the wallabies at a venue they may never play again
Con : The SCG is a very difficult place to navigate

Pro : Drinking out of cans at the game
Con : On the pub crawl to the game only got into 1 venue & had to wait 15 min to be served & had to drink it in the street.

& no that was not me on the roof of the grand stand

 

[fatprop]

Ultimately that was a game about little things we didn't execute. All in the first ten minutes:

- Frost charges down from the kickoff but can't regather - not really a crime as we're still in their half.
- Tupou leans in at the subsequent scrum and we get short armed rather than putting some pressure on (penalty to us thereafter)
- Lolesio missing a regulation 3
- Hodge totally fluffing a pass to Wright which was a tryscoring opportunity in the 22
(Paul Williams not calling "use it once" to an England maul going backward at the next lineout was, well.... )
- Tupou getting through the line and absolutely butchering a pass to Frost with the line wide open

Can't win games even against a mediocre England if you're not going to get your one percenters right.

I think we will be more able to reduce these kinds of errors when we have a chance to stick the same side out more often, too many injuries means these guys have a less instinctive understand of were there teammates are and what they will do

 

[Pfitzy]

I think we will be more able to reduce these kinds of errors when we have a chance to stick the same side out more often, too many injuries means these guys have a less instinctive understand of were there teammates are and what they will do

Also true - Frost is 2 games into his Test career and already carrying white shirts with him as he storms over the gain line.

This wasn't our best side; it was the best side available.

 

[Pfitzy]

It's not one percenters though. One percenters are the Bogan Barrett style pickups or any single thing a standard NRL player does every other weekend.

The things you've listed are just standard and should be executed 90 times out of a hundred.

It is more a reference to the stuff they should be polishing in training relentlessly to ensure that 90 becomes 100.

You can't look me straight in the face and say Frost gathers that chargedown 100% of the time. At best, chargedowns are 50/50