Australia v England: Match II @ Suncorp 7.55pm AEST, 09/07

[Wilson]

About the right answer really - two weeks is the England tour so not exactly light in it's repercussions.

In summary the injury/absence list is something like:
Swain - 2 weeks, mis the England tour
Cooper - another week likely two, miss the England tour likely
Banks - season over, possible WB time over
AAA - Head knock, another week out back for game 3
JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) - returning from injury, underdone last week, fitness this week tbc

Tupou - returns

Am I missing anything?

Still unclear if Holloway is back from injury this week

 

[Marce]

About the right answer really - two weeks is the England tour so not exactly light in it's repercussions.

In summary the injury/absence list is something like:
Swain - 2 weeks, mis the England tour
Cooper - another week likely two, miss the England tour likely
Banks - season over, possible WB time over
AAA - Head knock, another week out back for game 3
JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) - returning from injury, underdone last week, fitness this week tbc

Tupou - returns

Am I missing anything?

Rory Arnold drinking rakija in Croatia

 

[scrans21]

Bit early but here's what I expect the team to be:
1. Angus Bell
2. David Porecki
3. Taniela Tupou
4. Matt Philip
5. Cadeyrn Neville
6. Rob Leota
7. Michael Hooper (c)
8. Rob Valetini
9. Nic White
10. Noah Lolesio
11. Marika Korobeite
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Len Ikitau
14. Jordan Petaia
15. Andrew Kellaway

16. Folau Fainga'a
17. Scott Sio
18. James Slipper
19. Nick Frost
20. Pete Samu
21. Tate McDermott*
22. James O'Connor
23. Izaia Perese

Somehow a stronger side than we put out last week. I only picked McDermott because I'm a Reds tragic and I think they'll give him a run on his home track at Suncorp. I hate being overly optimistic but I'm expecting a similar score-line to the 2nd Springboks game from last year.

 

[Braveheart81]

Given that neither Hill, nor Scott Barrett were cited for their infraction

I raised it on twitter and haven't had any responses with answers in the positive, but can anyone find examples of World Rugby citing players for judiciary hearings who weren't red carded?

The World Rugby Judiciary does the mid year internationals and EOYT.

The RWC is the only time I can remember it happening (such as Reece Hodge getting cited against Fiji despite not receiving a red card). It seems non-existent outside of the RWC though.

 

[Wilson]

I raised it on twitter and haven't had any responses with answers in the positive, but can anyone find examples of World Rugby citing players for judiciary hearings who weren't red carded?

The World Rugby Judiciary does the mid year internationals and EOYT.

The RWC is the only time I can remember it happening (such as Reece Hodge getting cited against Fiji despite not receiving a red card). It seems non-existent outside of the RWC though.

It's rare but it does happen. The only one I can think of is when Israel Folau was cited for a contest in the air against Ireland in 2018:

Lifting in the spotlight after Folau citing

Lifting in the spotlight after Folau citing

www.rugby.com.au

He was cited for an aerial challenge separate to the one that saw him yellow carded later in the game, which does make it pretty similar to the Hill situation.

Everything else I'm aware of was during a world cup or referred to the citing commissioner by the opposition, like the alleged stomp from Horwill during the lions series.

 

[Braveheart81]

Good memory!

We talk about SANZAAR being inconsistent and not citing clear red card incidents that were missed but they seem to do it far more regularly than World Rugby does.

 

[Wilson]

Good memory!

We talk about SANZAAR being inconsistent and not citing clear red card incidents that were missed but they seem to do it far more regularly than World Rugby does.

Yeah, I think World Rugby only really do it when an offence falls under whatever their current crackdown is, otherwise they seem to leave it to the teams to refer things to the citing commissioner. The groups actually managing competitions like SANZAAR are usually much more proactive about it, which probably explains why World Rugby are much more likely to cite players during world cups.

 

[LeCheese]

I raised it on twitter and haven't had any responses with answers in the positive, but can anyone find examples of World Rugby citing players for judiciary hearings who weren't red carded?

The World Rugby Judiciary does the mid year internationals and EOYT.

The RWC is the only time I can remember it happening (such as Reece Hodge getting cited against Fiji despite not receiving a red card). It seems non-existent outside of the RWC though.

My understanding after a conversation with a referee mate is that for something to be cited on a yellow card, it essentially should’ve been given a red in the match.

 

[Braveheart81]

My understanding after a conversation with a referee mate is that for something to be cited on a yellow card, it essentially should’ve been given a red in the match.

That is absolutely correct that it needs to meet the red card threshold to be able to be cited.

I think Scott Barrett's cleanout was the clearest one that should have been cited as it seemed like an obvious red card. Hill's was more two yellow card offences or a weak red one for the hair pull. This has also been given a yellow card in the past.

 

[dru]

Bit early but here's what I expect the team to be:
1. Angus Bell
2. David Porecki
3. Taniela Tupou
4. Matt Philip
5. Cadeyrn Neville
6. Rob Leota
7. Michael Hooper (c)
8. Rob Valetini
9. Nic White
10. Noah Lolesio
11. Marika Korobeite
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Len Ikitau
14. Jordan Petaia
15. Andrew Kellaway

16. Folau Fainga'a
17. Scott Sio
18. James Slipper
19. Nick Frost
20. Pete Samu
21. Tate McDermott*
22. James O'Connor
23. Izaia Perese

Somehow a stronger side than we put out last week. I only picked McDermott because I'm a Reds tragic and I think they'll give him a run on his home track at Suncorp. I hate being overly optimistic but I'm expecting a similar score-line to the 2nd Springboks game from last year.

I

Bit early but here's what I expect the team to be:
1. Angus Bell
2. David Porecki
3. Taniela Tupou
4. Matt Philip
5. Cadeyrn Neville
6. Rob Leota
7. Michael Hooper (c)
8. Rob Valetini
9. Nic White
10. Noah Lolesio
11. Marika Korobeite
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Len Ikitau
14. Jordan Petaia
15. Andrew Kellaway

16. Folau Fainga'a
17. Scott Sio
18. James Slipper
19. Nick Frost
20. Pete Samu
21. Tate McDermott*
22. James O'Connor
23. Izaia Perese

Somehow a stronger side than we put out last week. I only picked McDermott because I'm a Reds tragic and I think they'll give him a run on his home track at Suncorp. I hate being overly optimistic but I'm expecting a similar score-line to the 2nd Springboks game from last year.

Strange that even with the injuries (or absent players) I'm still feeling pretty confident with this group . Maybe the claim that the WBs are building depth has something behind it after all. That group seems to (mostly) pick itself, doesn't it?

The queries are:
1. Confirm Cooper unavailable
2. Is JOC (James O'Connor) still considered underdone?
3. Not imo a ridiculous suggestion that we might see Hodge to 23
4. What happens with Slipper when AAA returns, and what impact on front row and bench?

My gut reaction is probably Tate on hold till perhaps game 3. Wilson maybe gets time in game 3. Ditto Vunivalu but only if we are 2 up or stretching depth.

 

[Viking]

I like the idea of starting Gordon over White, but with Cooper out now probably better to keep White for his combination with Lolesio.

If AAA is back, I would probably choose Sio over Slipper for the final prop spot.

I expect Wright/Hodge to take the bench spot as both are good FB cover. I know Petaia/Kelleway can cover FB if one went down, but I think Rennie will prefer having a second FB style back-three.

 

[Slim 293]

1. Confirm Cooper unavailable

Confirmed, not available.

 

[Dctarget]

Looks like Leota is fit and not under a headknock cloud.

 

[scrans21]

I


Strange that even with the injuries (or absent players) I'm still feeling pretty confident with this group . Maybe the claim that the WBs are building depth has something behind it after all. That group seems to (mostly) pick itself, doesn't it?

The queries are:
1. Confirm Cooper unavailable
2. Is JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) still considered underdone?
3. Not imo a ridiculous suggestion that we might see Hodge to 23
4. What happens with Slipper when AAA returns, and what impact on front row and bench?

My gut reaction is probably Tate on hold till perhaps game 3. Wilson maybe gets time in game 3. Ditto Vunivalu but only if we are 2 up or stretching depth.

Cooper is confirmed out for the rest of the series. JOC (James O'Connor) may be underdone but we need 10 cover on the bench, plus he covers 12 and 15 at a pinch.

I think they won't rush Hodge back in. I like the idea of having a strike weapon at 23, hence Perese who can cover 13 and 11/14.

Slipper is an interesting one. You'd think he would shift back to 17 but then again Sio is in good form atm. Not a bad problem to have.

 

[Viking]

Cooper is confirmed out for the rest of the series. JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) may be underdone but we need 10 cover on the bench, plus he covers 12 and 15 at a pinch.

I think they won't rush Hodge back in. I like the idea of having a strike weapon at 23, hence Perese who can cover 13 and 11/14.

Slipper is an interesting one. You'd think he would shift back to 17 but then again Sio is in good form atm. Not a bad problem to have.

I'm not on the same page with JOC (James O'Connor) covering 12 and 15 at a pinch. He hasn't played in either position in years. He would be a major liability in defense at 12, and at 15 a liability under the high ball, potential positioning issues, and doesn't have the pace for a decent fullback.

I see JOC (James O'Connor) as an out and out 10 these days.

 

[Braveheart81]

If we assumed a backline of:

9. White
10. Lolesio
11. Koroibete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Petaia
15. Kellaway

21. Gordon 22. JOC (James O'Connor) 23. Vunivalu/Perese/Wright

I would assume Ikitau covers 12, Petaia or Perese covers 13, jersey 23 covers the wing and Petaia covers fullback.

 

[dru]

If we assumed a backline of:

9. White
10. Lolesio
11. Koroibete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Petaia
15. Kellaway

21. Gordon 22. JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) 23. Vunivalu/Perese/Wright

I would assume Ikitau covers 12, Petaia or Perese covers 13, jersey 23 covers the wing and Petaia covers fullback.

This I think. Ideally I would have like 6/2 to be considered, but covering the back line effectively from the bench may not let that happen with the injuries we are carrying.

 

[scrans21]

I'm not on the same page with JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) covering 12 and 15 at a pinch. He hasn't played in either position in years. He would be a major liability in defense at 12, and at 15 a liability under the high ball, potential positioning issues, and doesn't have the pace for a decent fullback.

I see JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) as an out and out 10 these days.

As do I, hence the "in a pinch". Ideally we wouldn't want him playing at 12 or 15 but if it came down to it and our starting backline was decimated by injuries then I think he would make a fist of it. Hodge is better cover for those positions, but I prefer having JOC (James O'Connor) there purely for the fact he's a much better 10 than Hodge. I think if you carry JOC (James O'Connor) and Hodge at 22 and 23 you're basically just getting different versions of the same player. Would much rather have either of them at 22 and then a strike player (Perese, Wright, Paisami, Vunivalu etc) at 23.

 

[liquor box]

New members don't automatically know the abbreviations.

I get frustrated at some Pod Casts when they talk about the Reds referring to JOC (James O'Connor) as "Jock" when Jock should be reserved for Jock Campbell.

 

[Rugby Head]

Looks like Leota is fit and not under a headknock cloud.

Great news, he gets over the gain line whenever he carries. Between him and Valetini, we've got a bruising back row.