John S
Peter Fenwicke (45)
If you look at the link I provided up the top they cover that, and there's an example from France v Wales
Australia v England: Match II @ Suncorp 7.55pm AEST, 09/07
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all dealt with in the laws.
- A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
- It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.
Drew
Bob Davidson (42)
Good analogy
Not necessarily, it could be a knock on. The direction the balls goes from the hands determines if it's a knock on or a dropped ball. HTF any ref can categorically rule a player was trying to act illegally is beyond me. What about rugby adopting the Law of Commonsense in such instances?
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
A truly deliberate knockdown is pretty obvious by the arm/wrist motion, as with a 'bat up' for a second attempt. It's the ones like Perese's that are somewhere in between that are the issue.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Under the current laws, Perese's attempt is a clear cut yellow card...
It doesn't matter the intent, as there was no chance of him being able to regather the ball as to where it landed:
4 万次播放 · 270 个心情 | Kick & Chase - Knock-On Explanation | Confused about the intentional knock on rule? Australian referee Angus Gardner explained it on Kick & Chase. | By FOX Sports Rugby | Facebook
Confused about the intentional knock on rule? Australian referee Angus Gardner explained it on Kick & Chase.
www.facebook.com
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
Yep - to clarify, I was flagging that, when it comes to the perception of intent (as opposed to interpretation of the law), there's a murkier zone.Under the current laws, Perese's attempt is a clear cut yellow card...
It doesn't matter the intent, as there was no chance of him being able to regather the ball as to where it landed:
4 万次播放 · 270 个心情 | Kick & Chase - Knock-On Explanation | Confused about the intentional knock on rule? Australian referee Angus Gardner explained it on Kick & Chase. | By FOX Sports Rugby | Facebook
Confused about the intentional knock on rule? Australian referee Angus Gardner explained it on Kick & Chase.
If they took the word 'deliberate' out of the ruling, controversy around the decisions would probably be far less.
The Nomad
Bob Davidson (42)
Would like the idea of a “deliberate knock on” to take into consideration whether you were trying to catch the ball or not , not whether you were a chance of regathering after the initial contact. Hands up in an attempt and the force of the attempt at he ball are not that hard to see.
For me Perese did have a crack at grabbing it , it wasn’t a deliberate swat away. Yes he was out of position defensively, but he tries to catch it.
The hardest part of the rule to accept is that it has to be a knock on. A player running back towards his goal line can deliberately swat a ball down even though he is no chance of catching it to stop a pass finding a support player, but if you try for an intercept and knock it on you face a yellow card. What’s more cynical?
For me Perese did have a crack at grabbing it , it wasn’t a deliberate swat away. Yes he was out of position defensively, but he tries to catch it.
The hardest part of the rule to accept is that it has to be a knock on. A player running back towards his goal line can deliberately swat a ball down even though he is no chance of catching it to stop a pass finding a support player, but if you try for an intercept and knock it on you face a yellow card. What’s more cynical?
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Reg, would it be reasonable to consider 1. and 2. as separate incidents. That is, any intentional knock forward (like Perese's for example) earns a penalty (or YC) regardless of what happens in the aftermath (even in the case that the player is able to retrieve the ball before it lands or contacts another player). That is, the act of deliberately knocking the ball forward immediately earns the penalty regardless of outcome? That could be read into 1.all dealt with in the laws.
- A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
- It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.
Only where the player attempts to actually catch the ball (as distinct from knocking it forward - up or down being of no consequence) but spills it forward does the action constitute a knock on?
D
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Geez our game is in a mess if we are splitting hairs on the words in a rule book.
No wonder the referees are as confused and inconsistent as they are across the globe.
Wonder what William Webb Ellis would say if he was around?
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
It's all explained in the Angus Gardner video above... as well in detail by another poster in the refereeing thread.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
look im just gonna come out and say it
the welcome to country oi oi oi is the real reason we lost .....
the welcome to country oi oi oi is the real reason we lost .....
Drew
Bob Davidson (42)
I’m gonna sound unpatriotic here, and I may be missing the point but I literally never: watch anthems, welcome to countries, hakas, pre-game musical acts, talking heads, et al.
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pissedoffihavetoregister
Alfred Walker (16)
I've never understood why some teams need to have a dance before a game.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I know I shouldn't ask, because I know what's coming, but...
What political statement?
Dctarget
Tim Horan (67)
Come on Slim..
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All good for a Welcome to Country but some now have developed into way more than that.
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