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Australia v British & Irish Lions, 3rd Test (Sydney)

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Scotty

David Codey (61)
You cannot deny that teams play the refs and the team that gets scrum ascendancy early one almost always gets the Lions share of penalties.

I am not arguing if this is right or wrong I was merely stating what I see just about every week and what was evident in this match.

I agree but I don't like it.

Not all refs are as bad as Poite though and if a ref can't make decisions based on current evidence rather than history then I would suggest they should not be called 'professional' and should not be paid for their work.
 

biggsy

Chilla Wilson (44)
Everyone knows the 9-10 combination is important and Australia have played all these combinations in the last few years," White said.

White gets its,


So glade Jesse Mogg had a good game when he came on. Really rate him, He shouldn't have been there from the start. Deans played his pet players and now paying the price.
Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) are not needed anymore, and it was bought in the last pod cast about is the x factor really needed.

I'm sure many are trying to forgt this thumping but if things don't change quickly and certain players arnt fucked off and certain players are not in the team or bought back into the team The wallabies will be heading for and embarrassing start to the rugby championship come Saturday 17th of August
 

Mank

Ted Thorn (20)
If you go down to your local club there is no crisis. The beautiful scrurms still exist and are the referees have little work to do. Scrums are no more problematic than any other aspect of the game.

It seems as though the issue is that the better players get at scrumming, the more they try to ruin scrums to gain a penalty. So at this point in the elite era we have a bunch of world class props who have a full time job of trying to find ways to bring down an opposition scrum.

One idea would be to make all scrum infringements a free kick to remove that incentive.

Not all scrum infringements but I can see this working for certain cases. The scrum is a means to a restart, and should not be a means to milk penalties and win a game. That is my view, I don't expect everyone to subscribe to it, but I think the majority of fans would agree with me. I really hate seeing game after game of knock-on, scrum, inevitable penalty. I makes me want to turn off the TV, whoever is playing. I really did not enjoy the 3rd test because of this. And I'm a South African, where it should be considered sacred.

Absolutely agree that scrums are fine at my club level. But at professional level, where margins are so fine, they're just used to milk penalties.

So my solution would be that unless you're in with a chance of a push-over scrum, you have 2 or 3 seconds to use the ball once it has been 'hooked' (yeah, haha). I mean, if it is available to play, you have to play it, and not just try to keep it in to milk the penalty. Use it or lose it applies, and turnover ball if you don't. That keeps the scrum as I believe it was intended, a means to restart, not a means to a penalty.

However, penalties can still be awarded if you are being shoved off your own ball and infringe to prevent this. This means sides can't just ignore the scrum.
 

Beefcake

Bill Watson (15)
Yeah fuckit who wants to win ugly?:rolleyes:

Your right, what was I thinking, SAF rugby is synonymous class and grace...geez get a clue


Do you honestly believe White didn't stay on as coach because of the way South Africa played?

Ha....

Do you remember who replaced him?

I'll remind you:

Springboks+Press+Conference+BottJDdNI5pl.jpg

Not sure if you've understood my point given your example.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yep, SARU fired Jake White due to his coaching style that won them the World Cup, and then replaced him with somebody who....... essentially continued on with that game plan in an even more conservative fashion?

And the whole time he was Eddie Jones' puppet?

If only I had shares in Glad.........
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I'm still on a high after yesterday. Had a blast watching the game with my girlfriend. Never imagined we put up 40 points, even in my wildest dreams. One funny side note was that every time there was a crowd shot of an Aussie section of the crowd my girlfriend would shout school children, as the school kids over here all have those yellow hats for the sun.

Realised earlier today that through this feast of rugby I've probably watched a little too much. Out on the street I saw something out of the corner of my eye and it took me a second or 2 to realise there wasn't going to be an action replay.
 

Beefcake

Bill Watson (15)
S'pose if JWhite brand of rugby gives you a hard-on, then let him add to the Wobblies era of Jones-Connolly-Deans marked by lessons unlearnt and inability to develop any style, staying ahead of the game circa GHenry's darkness...
 

Zander

Ron Walden (29)
Lots of similarities between this match and the RWC semi final loss.

- Queensland halves fucking up the start and putting all the pressure on Australia immediately
- Tries within the first 5 minutes, chasing the game before it begins
- Scrum penalised heavily
- Very poor high ball skills
- Turned down 3 points for no reward too often
- Inability to convert pressure inside 22 into points (as above)
 

Garryowen

Larry Dwyer (12)
There is again so much hyperbole critical of Australian Front row stocks. There are plenty of very good props in Australia. Indeed there are some excellent Props. The problem is they are not getting developed properly. Robbie Deans, and before him (and before Connolly) Eddie Jones prescribed what they wanted from a front rower. They wanted mobility, tackling and work rate. We got Matt Dunning, Bill Young and more recently, S. Fainga'a, Ben Daley, Ben Alexander. Now these are all players who had and have potential to be good test front rowers. Perhaps not world best, but certainly not loci for derision that they have been the focus of. The problem is they have all been told what is required of them to be selected for the Wallabies and they train and practice accordingly. If a coach were to come in and say, to get selected a prop must have an acceptable technique at the scrum and be able to lift effectively at the lineout as the primary skill sets to be selected we would see a markedly different outcome. This has not happened.
Including the 2nd rowers in this and we have all seen that Robbie Deans cares little for the set piece in that he picked S. Timani for many tests even though he was a lineout liability because he was able to provide some debatable skills away from what most would regard as his core duties. Just as I say with the front row, if the second row cannot jump and compete effectively on both attacking and defensive lineouts and lock the scrum they do not fill the core requirements for selection.
Every position on the field has such selection criteria, and that is the main point that I take from the Deans era, too many of those selection criteria just don't get met because players are picked out of position, or to fill a role away from the core duties of the position.

IMHO many thinking Rugby people will look back on the Deans era and regard him and his coaching in the same light as the Eddie Jones era, that of a man with definite and strongly held views of how the game should and would be played under him, and he would brook no questioning or alterations to his model. When it failed it was obviously the fault of the tools and we saw a succession of players used for long periods, often with the skill set foibles described above and then they were discarded and obviously blamed for the failures. Think here, R. Brown, S. Timani, N. Sharpe (though Sharpie just wouldn't go away), Giteau, Cooper, Baxter.

I do not accept that there is any lack of depth in players, the lack is in the management and development of the magnificent talent that is actually on offer, and that for me is the great tragedy of the Deans era, the waste of so much talent and the lack of development of that base skill. For me it has made a mockery of the very reason for his signing and alleged strength that Deans was supposed to have.

I thought Timani's greatest asset was his impact on the scrum.
 

biggsy

Chilla Wilson (44)
I do not accept that there is any lack of depth in players, the lack is in the management and development of the magnificent talent that is actually on offer, and that for me is the great tragedy of the Deans era, the waste of so much talent and the lack of development of that base skill. For me it has made a mockery of the very reason for his signing and alleged strength that Deans was supposed to have.


When this thread slowly gets lost in the thread library. what gnostic has said should be in bold underlined and put in the ARU office. To remember not to fuck up such so much talent.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Lots of similarities between this match and the RWC semi final loss.

- Queensland halves fucking up the start and putting all the pressure on Australia immediately
- Tries within the first 5 minutes, chasing the game before it begins
- Scrum penalised heavily
- Very poor high ball skills
- Turned down 3 points for no reward too often
- Inability to convert pressure inside 22 into points (as above)

Qwerty, is this you in another form?

Just asking.....Qwerty disappears, Zander reappears in the same posting style with Queensland hate, Palu and Tahs love, and all the same amusing quirks.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Qwerty, is this you in another form?

Just asking...Qwerty disappears, Zander reappears in the same posting style with Queensland hate, Palu and Tahs love, and all the same amusing quirks.
And wrong in blaming Genia for Douglas not taking that first kickoff
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Gnostic is right when he says that there are plenty of good players in Australia, who have been poorly coached at State and National level in the past 5-10 years.

It's also true that rugby in Australia faces issues, which none of the other major rugby nations face.

Firstly, in all the other major nations, rugby is either the major winter sport or second behind soccer. This means that all the athletes attracted to a contact code of football play rugby. Not so in Australia, where we are behind league and Aussie Rules and have to compete with them for the same athletes.

Secondly, rugby in Australia faces structural problems which no administrator seems to acknowledge or try to fix. That is that rugby is strong in certain parts of Sydney, Brisbane and regional NSW/Qld, but virtually non-existant in others. This means that there are a whole host of athletes who never really have rugby as an option. For example, my kids play rugby and a couple of other sports and if we moved from the Northern Beaches to areas of western Sydney, they could keep playing all their sports for a local junior club - except rugby.

Finally, and related to the second point, rugby has a over reliance on a few private schools to develop elite talent. Imagine for a moment if any school system said tomorrow that they wouldn't play league, Aussie Rules or Cricket anymore - those sports would hardly notice. But if the Sydney GPS schools decided not to play rugby anymore, there is little infastructure in place to fill that void.

Until these issues are resolved coaching at the elite level has to be at 100% or we can expect results like Saturday night at regular intervals. And as long as the game is run by Sydney GPS types who reside in places like Mosman, I can see little chance of change.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Amazing how that last 25 odd minutes changed the world, the Lions supporters around me thought we were going to rollover them after those 6 points in the second half, nails were being chewed.

Instead the team is crap, with various units to be scapegoats.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
S'pose if JWhite brand of rugby gives you a hard-on, then let him add to the Wobblies era of Jones-Connolly-Deans marked by lessons unlearnt and inability to develop any style, staying ahead of the game circa GHenry's darkness.

How have you come to that conclusion?

I'm happy for either Link or White to get the job.......

But your negative comments about White have had no basis in reality.........
 
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