Australia A v Japan XV matches

[Lightblue]

Similarly, neither Donaldson nor Edmed will displace Foley, Lolesio or Cooper. For development purposes, I would prefer to see Edmed make the trip if one is to go.

Cooper is number 1, with his maturity and experience but still hasn’t played the ABs yet since his return plus will he return from a difficult injury successfully? Foley is experienced yet not enough to kick the bloody ball out and secure a great victory recently. Lolesio is playing second fiddle to White and isn’t a great creator or organiser. Not a super defender. Edmed is solid, good defender and goal kicker. Donaldson seems at times to have something that the others don’t, yet has had limited Super Rugby. He looked the best in the Australia A games even with poor ball security and muffed kick off ball from the forwards in the first half last night. Like to see him tested and be taken on tour although maybe Edmed should go too. Both imho will surpass Lolesio.

 

[dru]

Donaldson seems at times to have something that the others don’t, yet has had limited Super Rugby.

Completely agree.

Like to see him tested and be taken on tour although maybe Edmed should go too. Both imho will surpass Lolesio.

Really don't see us taking more than Foley and Lolesio on the EOYT. And I don't really see Donaldson taking a regular gold jersey through to the RWC - but who knows? Stranger things have happened.

 

[Viking]

It's important to remember Noah's drawbacks really only came to light after playing a handful of games at the highest level. Why we think Donaldson or Edmed would perform any better when they haven't performed markedly better then Noah at lower levels is an interesting expectation.

Donaldson would probably have all of the leadership and communication qualities that Noah doesn't have at test level but would probably be exposed in number of other areas.

Aus A was great, but I don't think either 10 really shined. I guess you still need to take one as injury cover. I'd probably take Edmed even though he was worse then Donaldson - but I think this position is going to be based on potential anyway, so you might as well just go with the guy with a higher ceiling.

 

[Derpus]

It's important to remember Noah's drawbacks really only came to light after playing a handful of games at the highest level. Why we think Donaldson or Edmed would perform any better when they haven't performed markedly better then Noah at lower levels is an interesting expectation.

Donaldson would probably have all of the leadership and communication qualities that Noah doesn't have at test level but would probably be exposed in number of other areas.

Aus A was great, but I don't think either 10 really shined. I guess you still need to take one as injury cover. I'd probably take Edmed even though he was worse then Donaldson - but I think this position is going to be based on potential anyway, so you might as well just go with the guy with a higher ceiling.

There is no way you watched that tour and concluded either player was better than Noah. I feel like people completely ignore Noah's better games in gold, e.g against France and the first test against England.

Hes our best option and he's young. Obviously he's not gunna be running out at Sexton level. But to throw him aside for another kid in the hope that he is somehow better at test level would be silly. And I really doubt Rennie will do it - he's clearly sought out experience in his 10 and I doubt he'll go the other way.

 

[qwerty51]

You guys are mad, we're taking 3 10s. It's 5 matches in a row, squad will probably be 33-35 players.

One of Donaldson/Edmed - who? Don't know, don't think it matters. They will be in the 23 against Italy, likely bench - nothing more unless Foley/Lolesio injured.

Next year, hopefully with all the 10s uninjured, we'll see who the best is through Super Rugby. Although tough for the Tahs candidates admittedly to prove case for Test 10. They'll all harm each other.

 

[Rugby King]

Cooper is number 1, with his maturity and experience but still hasn’t played the ABs yet since his return plus will he return from a difficult injury successfully? Foley is experienced yet not enough to kick the bloody ball out and secure a great victory recently. Lolesio is playing second fiddle to White and isn’t a great creator or organiser. Not a super defender. Edmed is solid, good defender and goal kicker. Donaldson seems at times to have something that the others don’t, yet has had limited Super Rugby. He looked the best in the Australia A games even with poor ball security and muffed kick off ball from the forwards in the first half last night. Like to see him tested and be taken on tour although maybe Edmed should go too. Both imho will surpass Lolesio.

Donaldson might. Ended is a distant place getter.

look for Carter Gordon to mature in Super Rugby 23 and step up.
Great defence, great pass, good boot, learning control.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A lot of different opinions here on the 10 spot, most of them it seems based on which Super Rugby team the particular favoured player belongs. I really hope Quade makes a successful comeback because he is the only world class No 10 among the lot. I personally don't think we should rely on Bernard Foley because when he's off he is pretty bloody terrible, and he is not our future post RWC 23.

Lolesio is the only other 10 (ignoring Hodge for the moment) who has test match experience, and while some of that wasn't hugely successful, it was all a learning exercise for him. None of the others have made a compelling case at Super or Aus A levels to suggest they are more than a slim hope of taking the 10 spot at the WC. Carter Gordon hasn't even established himself at Super level yet some are talking him up as the saviour.

I'm sure the Wallabies' coaching staff have a more rational idea of who will get the opportunities than posters here, including me.

 

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

I read somewhere that pone only did his hammy. That's much better than his knee, which I thought he did.

 

[dru]

There is no way you watched that tour and concluded either player was better than Noah. I feel like people completely ignore Noah's better games in gold, e.g against France and the first test against England.

Hes our best option and he's young. Obviously he's not gunna be running out at Sexton level. But to throw him aside for another kid in the hope that he is somehow better at test level would be silly. And I really doubt Rennie will do it - he's clearly sought out experience in his 10 and I doubt he'll go the other way.

Derpus, what were your thoughts of the defensive positioning on the wings? Not just Vunivalu but also Nawaqanitawase? Both of them seemed to come in a long way from the tram tracks even when there was a pretty clear overlap building by Japan. The Japanese took the challenge constantly and left the D wanting - it seemed to me anyway.

Was it player positional issues or something in the "plan"?

 

[qwerty51]

Derpus, what were your thoughts of the defensive positioning on the wings? Not just Vunivalu but also Nawaqanitawase? Both of them seemed to come in a long way from the tram tracks even when there was a pretty clear overlap building by Japan. The Japanese took the challenge constantly and left the D wanting - it seemed to me anyway.

Was it player positional issues or something in the "plan"?

It genuinely looked like Tahs 2021 stuff. Gilmore back in a head role so make of that what you will.

 

[hifflepiff]

Derpus, what were your thoughts of the defensive positioning on the wings? Not just Vunivalu but also Nawaqanitawase? Both of them seemed to come in a long way from the tram tracks even when there was a pretty clear overlap building by Japan. The Japanese took the challenge constantly and left the D wanting - it seemed to me anyway.

Was it player positional issues or something in the "plan"?

Honestly I like what I saw of Nawaqanitawase's defence one on one, he seemd much more physical and willing to put in a hit.

Main issue was that he didn't seem to trust his inside defender, so often cut in to make an uneeded covering tackle. Somewhat expected in a team that hasn't had much time together, but also hard to tell if that comes down to his decision making v defensive structure.

 

[dru]

It genuinely looked like Tahs 2021 stuff. Gilmore back in a head role so make of that what you will.

This is what I was wondering, so thanks. There is no way for me to tell, but if the key was trained structure both Nawaqanitawase and Vunivalu can be tarred for something outside their control. That wide defence seemed to be missing something.

 

[Derpus]

Derpus, what were your thoughts of the defensive positioning on the wings? Not just Vunivalu but also Nawaqanitawase? Both of them seemed to come in a long way from the tram tracks even when there was a pretty clear overlap building by Japan. The Japanese took the challenge constantly and left the D wanting - it seemed to me anyway.

Was it player positional issues or something in the "plan"?

I mean - pressing inwards in order to cut off the attack before it gets to the wing is a legitimate strategy but no, I think they simply wernt trusting their inside man. A league trait - Mark clearly needs to improve on that.

Fortunately learning to defend a wing is relatively easy compared to midfield etc.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

I think they will still take Campbell on tour and that is why they sent him home early. Banks will play FB and Kellaway will move to the wing. Wright or petaia on the other wing but wouldn’t mind if they took Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) as well

I think the coaching team would have really been hoping vunivalu played a lot better this series to demand selection on the spring tour but he definitely didn’t do that and they might even leave him at home now

 

[dru]

I mean - pressing inwards in order to cut off the attack before it gets to the wing is a legitimate strategy but no, I think they simply wernt trusting their inside man. A league trait - Mark clearly needs to improve on that.

Fortunately learning to defend a wing is relatively easy compared to midfield etc.

That would make sense if they (wing) stayed out in the tram tracks with a gap to the inside defence, wouldn't it? It's not what I saw. Wings positioned 15m or more from the touch line on the end of a tight backline set up (and the attacking line spread out wide).

Derpus, you've always had a reasonable idea of what should traditionally be going on out wide, this isn't it is it?

It is reading to me that we were missing a loose forward out wide but come to think of it, you only set up that way in attack? It could be a quick turn over and the Japanese making hay. (likely thinking about it) But I would think that the wing should stay wide until the loosie turns up, no? Getting the attack line tight might open opportunity for getting the wingers involved, but the resulting D lapse is problematic.

It caught Nawaqanitawase as much as Vunivalu. I'm really not seeing it as their issue.

 

[NCT]

I mean - pressing inwards in order to cut off the attack before it gets to the wing is a legitimate strategy but no, I think they simply wernt trusting their inside man. A league trait - Mark clearly needs to improve on that.

Fortunately learning to defend a wing is relatively easy compared to midfield etc.

Vunivaku doesn't seem to have learnt to defend the wing though - he did the same with the Reds, always coming in and being exposed out wide. It astounds me that this hasn't been drilled into him - stay out and mark your player.

 

[stillmissit]

Cooper is number 1, with his maturity and experience but still hasn’t played the ABs yet since his return plus will he return from a difficult injury successfully? Foley is experienced yet not enough to kick the bloody ball out and secure a great victory recently. Lolesio is playing second fiddle to White and isn’t a great creator or organiser. Not a super defender. Edmed is solid, good defender and goal kicker. Donaldson seems at times to have something that the others don’t, yet has had limited Super Rugby. He looked the best in the Australia A games even with poor ball security and muffed kick off ball from the forwards in the first half last night. Like to see him tested and be taken on tour although maybe Edmed should go too. Both imho will surpass Lolesio.

Both offer more than Foley at the moment. Foley was always a good organiser but a poor defender and kicker (apart from at goal).
If I had to choose it would be Donaldson as he seems more settled than Edmed but next year's Super Rugby will be the big test, pity they are both Tahs players. It will be interesting to see which way Darren Coleman sees it.

I'll also be watching Carter Gordon closely to see how he progresses. I think he has more natural talent than all of them, but as we know talent ain't everything.

 

[stillmissit]

That would make sense if they (wing) stayed out in the tram tracks with a gap to the inside defence, wouldn't it? It's not what I saw. Wings positioned 15m or more from the touch line on the end of a tight backline set up (and the attacking line spread out wide).

Derpus, you've always had a reasonable idea of what should traditionally be going on out wide, this isn't it is it?

It is reading to me that we were missing a loose forward out wide but come to think of it, you only set up that way in attack? It could be a quick turn over and the Japanese making hay. (likely thinking about it) But I would think that the wing should stay wide until the loosie turns up, no? Getting the attack line tight might open opportunity for getting the wingers involved, but the resulting D lapse is problematic.

It caught Nawaqanitawase as much as Vunivalu. I'm really not seeing it as their issue.

A prolific winger I knew in my playing days said to his coach when asked if he would come in more often, 'Sure I can do that but I can't do both. It's either coming in or covering my winger make your choice'. So it is not easy to make those choices and I guess Koroibete is about the best at it but few have his engine to play with.

 

[wamberal]

A prolific winger I knew in my playing days said to his coach when asked if he would come in more often, 'Sure I can do that but I can't do both. It's either coming in or covering my winger make your choice'. So it is not easy to make those choices and I guess Koroibete is about the best at it but few have his engine to play with.

Speaking as an onlooker, maybe the answer is to do both, if you have the speed. Don't commit to either option in the hope (expectation?) that the cover defence will get across in time.

 

[The Nomad]

It genuinely looked like Tahs 2021 stuff. Gilmore back in a head role so make of that what you will.

Can’t comment on Gilmore’s work at the Tahs , but have seen him first hand work with the Reds’ Academy and both Australian U18’s and U20’s. His defensive structures there were all about staying connected and communicating, if the defender inside you pushes out you push , likewise with jamming in. Attitude being if you stay connected and they beat you on the outside so be it , but don’t leave gaps and don’t get beaten on the inside.

Wingers get left a little isolated due to having to also cover kicks , so the space they have to close is more than those inside them. Gets compounded by poor reads or those inside them not staying connected. If someone inside holds when they should have pushed you end up with a very isolated winger. That seemed to happen quite a bit in this series , especially in the first game when combinations were new.