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How are they doing this year? My top 5 at the moment: James-Lyons-Williams-Warwick-Smith Any opinions?
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WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Butch James, David Lyons, Brendan Williams?, Paul Warwick and George Smith. Is that correct?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
They're all going well.
Brock James and Paul Warwick were definitely two that "got away" though nobody appreciated it at the time. Possibly one or both would have stayed in Oz with a 5th Super team here and it had been established for a while and the foreigners had gone home, but one never knows. Players go overseas for reasons other than wanting to play Super rugby and good on them. James is a rock star in company town Clermont and Warwick is not much less with the Munster faithful.
I talked about George Smith on another thread yesterday where I harked back to an earlier post about the time that the Wallabies left for their EOYT. I wrote then that he and Lyons were the only two offshore forwards that I would have picked for the EOYT based on their form and also on the needs of the squad for the tour - and disregarding fuzzy things like development or RWCs.
As for 15. Brendan Williams at BT: he's in the veteran class now but still a strike weapon. It's good that a couple of Italian teams are in the Magners League now as you get a broader spectrum of Euro rugby on TV. And haven't BT and Aironi inflicted some shock results in the HC in the last couple of years? But I digress.
9. Nick Berry is another I'd like to see back in the country. He's playing well when he gets the time but doesn't get to play a lot behind the excellent Joe Simpson at Wasps. That is no disgrace because I'd have Joe as the Pom no. 3 scrummie behind Youngs and Care. 13. Ben Jacobs has been in good form for the same team and was skipper the other day.
14. Matt Cararro has been solid for Bath and is just about always in their starting team. He's another that maybe would have stayed at home with a 5th team without the foreigners.
Folks should not think that these Aussies are doing well because they are playing in lesser competitions than what the Super14 is, or was. True, some of the teams are not up to Super standard but nor are some of the Super teams themselves.
A fellow like George Smith is a rugby man for all seasons and places and would thrive in any rugby environment, but in some cases the European game suits the style of Oz expats more. I suspect that is why James and Warwick thrived almost immediately over there yet they were non-entities here - and ditto for "Compass" Parks.
Brock James and Paul Warwick were definitely two that "got away" though nobody appreciated it at the time. Possibly one or both would have stayed in Oz with a 5th Super team here and it had been established for a while and the foreigners had gone home, but one never knows. Players go overseas for reasons other than wanting to play Super rugby and good on them. James is a rock star in company town Clermont and Warwick is not much less with the Munster faithful.
I talked about George Smith on another thread yesterday where I harked back to an earlier post about the time that the Wallabies left for their EOYT. I wrote then that he and Lyons were the only two offshore forwards that I would have picked for the EOYT based on their form and also on the needs of the squad for the tour - and disregarding fuzzy things like development or RWCs.
As for 15. Brendan Williams at BT: he's in the veteran class now but still a strike weapon. It's good that a couple of Italian teams are in the Magners League now as you get a broader spectrum of Euro rugby on TV. And haven't BT and Aironi inflicted some shock results in the HC in the last couple of years? But I digress.
9. Nick Berry is another I'd like to see back in the country. He's playing well when he gets the time but doesn't get to play a lot behind the excellent Joe Simpson at Wasps. That is no disgrace because I'd have Joe as the Pom no. 3 scrummie behind Youngs and Care. 13. Ben Jacobs has been in good form for the same team and was skipper the other day.
14. Matt Cararro has been solid for Bath and is just about always in their starting team. He's another that maybe would have stayed at home with a 5th team without the foreigners.
Folks should not think that these Aussies are doing well because they are playing in lesser competitions than what the Super14 is, or was. True, some of the teams are not up to Super standard but nor are some of the Super teams themselves.
A fellow like George Smith is a rugby man for all seasons and places and would thrive in any rugby environment, but in some cases the European game suits the style of Oz expats more. I suspect that is why James and Warwick thrived almost immediately over there yet they were non-entities here - and ditto for "Compass" Parks.
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ausss
Guest
Ah yes, I was referring to Brendan Williams, he's doing very well in Italy with Benetton (winner of Italian Championship for a lot of years)
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
I knew that.:-\ Why the hell did I say Butch?
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
If it was later in the day I could blame James Squire for the slip but unfortunately that wasn't the case when I made that particular slip. I blame PR. Read an article about Butch returning to South Africa. Yeah, that's it.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
And he hates broccoli.
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
Last I heard he was back in Brisbane after tearing his hammy off the bone. He was having a storming match against Eddie Jones team then did his hammy.
sudrugby
Watty Friend (18)
Brock James is the best fly half in France... too bad he can be eligible for France! And now Morgan Parra is the official kicker, James is no more subject to his mental failures like during the former Top 14 finales or against Leinster last year.
George Smith and Adam d'Arcy are as well making good performances within their team, altough it was quite tough for Smith at the beginning with Toulon. Paul Warwick is in contact with Michael Cheika to move to Paris next year.
From what I'm seeing so far, Dane Haylett Petty and Michael Bond didn't make a huge impact in Biarritz, Junior Pelesasa is in Agen's first team. Matt Henjak isn't the number 1 scrum half but he's doing the job. He hasn't punched anyone yet. Same for Cameron Treloar in Bayonne. There are heaps of Aussies in the second division (Turinui, Thomson, Edwards, Connor, Purll, Siale, Tawake) but I can't really say if they are playing well.
George Smith and Adam d'Arcy are as well making good performances within their team, altough it was quite tough for Smith at the beginning with Toulon. Paul Warwick is in contact with Michael Cheika to move to Paris next year.
From what I'm seeing so far, Dane Haylett Petty and Michael Bond didn't make a huge impact in Biarritz, Junior Pelesasa is in Agen's first team. Matt Henjak isn't the number 1 scrum half but he's doing the job. He hasn't punched anyone yet. Same for Cameron Treloar in Bayonne. There are heaps of Aussies in the second division (Turinui, Thomson, Edwards, Connor, Purll, Siale, Tawake) but I can't really say if they are playing well.
Larno
Ward Prentice (10)
Agreed, d'Arcy is going well. Easily first choice fullback for us at the moment.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
One name that hasn't been mentioned so far is Paul Dearlove, captain of Pau.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
First choice at Ulster and supposedly he was not good enough to be the back-up fullback at the Tahs. Instead we choose Sosene "Mr Plod" Anesi. I still can't believe it!
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Good to hear that opinion from somebody close to French rugby. The mental failures you mention were in relation to his goal kicking in big games at the end of the season, but his general good play never varied.
I wouldn't say that Brock is the best flyhalf in France, but he is a couple of levels better than Traille, who started against the Wallabies, but so are a couple at his own club, and 4 or 5 in others. And that's just the French guys. I'd have only Trinh-Duc and Wizniewski ahead of James in the Top14 and a couple at the same level.
It would be a bad move for Warwick to go to Paris though I can see why Cheika would want him. They are a highly paid rabble at SF and the quixotic President doesn't help a lot. They need some cooler heads at the club but Warwick fits well into his niche at Munster and he could get tripped up in the dance of the galacticos.
I bet that Cheika is reassessing his move there too about now as Max Guazzini will be badgering him for better results. Meantime Ewen MacKenzie, who couldn't get away from Guazzini quickly enough, will be feeling some empathy for his fellow Randwick man.
Larno would have seen more of D'Arcy for Ulster than I have, but I haven't been that impressed in the games I have seen. He took over at fullback only when young Smith was hurt but he's been a bit untidy at the back in some games. Also, those lovely timed runs he can do are not coming off though, to be fair, ball-runners are not looking to offload to him as much as they would at Manly.
Henjak is playing well as he did last year when he was actually permitted to play for Toulon. He should get more game time next year if he is still at the club as their no. 1 scrummie, Mignoni the old French half back, is retiring. That's provided they don't get a galactico after the RWC.
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Peter Hewat
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