Aussie Player Exodus

[Marce]

46, 49 & 41 in the last 3 tours. Both include all players called up even if they never got on the plane to start with, whether through injury or other reason (Dylan Hartley and Ben Youngs in '13 & '17 respectively), alongside the "call ups of convenience" for mid week games: of which only 3 actually got on the pitch (70 minutes for Shane Williams v Brumbies, 25 minutes for Tom Court v Rebels, 5 minutes for Finn Russell v Canes).

Obviously depth is a big factor in ability to accommodate a series of injuries (using 6 different looseheads on the 2013 tour) but when it comes to the tests themselves, the BILs used 32 players in 2013, 26 in 2017 and 31 in 2021: those numbers aren't unusual for NH outbound tours.

49 is a common number for you? Yeah, obviously for a test match you pick your best 32 from 50 on tour. That's not fair for the opposition.

Never has a Southern Hemisphere team on tour brought 49 players cause none have 49 international players like RFU, WRU, IRFU and SRU playing together. Let's be honest. That's the main strenght of Lions

 

[Marce]

They absolutely do not, they name a squad of around 40 players and call in 5-10 more (with a few of those usually replacing players before the first match). Last tour they they picked a squad of 37 and brought in another 4 or 5 due to injuries. Previous tours have been similar (2017 - squad of 41 +6 replacements, 2013 - squad of 37 +9 replacements).

Rugby World Cup squads used to call a 31 players squad. Since the 2023 RWC will increase to 33 players. Wouldn't be an advantage a squad with 45-50 players in the tournament? Yes or no? That's all I want to know

 

[Braveheart81]

Rugby World Cup squads used to call a 31 players squad. Since the 2023 RWC will increase to 33 players. Wouldn't be an advantage a squad with 45-50 players in the tournament? Yes or no? That's all I wan to know

It's also the only tour in World Rugby that involves 9 or 10 matches in just over a month.

They clearly need a large squad to deal with midweek games.

I don't think it provides a massive advantage. There's a pretty clear divide between the players that are effectively in the test squad and the guys who are playing the midweek games etc.

In terms of training you're also going to split things up. It's clearly not practical running it as you would a normal squad.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Also, they don't come by boat anymore. If they had 3/4 injuries in a mid-week game they can fly guys out pretty quickly.

If you ever hear the stories of the Emus (mid week/lower tier opposition Australian RL team) they have a great time. Past World Cup sounded like a great time around the UK for those guys. Put 60 on Scotland then 18 pints. Just be on time

 

[Highlander35]

49 is a common number for you? Yeah, obviously for a test match you pick your best 32 from 50 on tour. That's not fair for the opposition.

Never has a Southern Hemisphere team on tour brought 49 players cause none have 49 international players like RFU, WRU, IRFU and SRU playing together. Let's be honest. That's the main strenght of Lions

I think conflating a 3-5 game tour spread across 3-5 weekends with a 10 game tour spread across 6 is deliberately disingenuous, and that's before you consider that it's closer to an extended Barbarians setup rather than a modified international one. In 2013, 6 players didn't join the tour until 2 or 3 days before the first game having played in the Premiership final: it would have been 7 had Dylan Hartley not been Dylan Hartley and if Genthin Jenkins had been fit, he wouldn't have been able to join the tour until after the first game had already been played.

And it's not fantasy football: you can't just throw the best XV/XXIII together and let them rip. Players have teammates and coaches they've never played with & under before: you need to be able to see who works with each other and who works in the system. Sexton and Tuipuloto for example may have anti-synergy, and one or the other may make way despite being number 1 across the available players for 10 & 12. Or Lowe and Hansen may be the best wing pair right now, but an alternately designed gameplan could see LRZ or VDM come in, or even a Blair Kinghorn. Hooker lacking synergy with his props for scrummaging and locks for throwing, backrows providing too much of a good thing etc. etc. etc.

As an aside, 59 players were selected across 8 games the Japan tour for the A squad and the EOYT comprised last year. It's obviously not 1 for 1 by any means, but you know, pare back the "true" development group from 12-15 to 2 or 3, play the games midweek instead: I would say that gives you 45-50 players needed to ensure you can see what each player has to offer and not grind your anticipated starters into the dirt, no?

I think there's been enough said about this in the wrong area, so I will drop any further discussion unless it's moved to the BILs tour thread.

 

[fatprop]

Also, they don't come by boat anymore. If they had 3/4 injuries in a mid-week game they can fly guys out pretty quickly.

If you ever hear the stories of the Emus (mid week/lower tier opposition Australian Rugby League team) they have a great time. Past World Cup sounded like a great time around the UK for those guys. Put 60 on Scotland then 18 pints. Just be on time

There is a stand down rule as well for replacements so everyone is on an even keel

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

There is a stand down rule as well for replacements so everyone is on an even keel

Only for RWC.

 

[Adam84]

Not Aussie, but an interesting insight into the state of English Premiership Rugby and the impact of salary cap/fiancés in player retention.

It’s of no coincidence that the exodus of Aussie players to the premiership has comparatively declined in recent years.

Leaving the Premiership XV: Line-up lays bare rugby talent drain

City A.M.'s Leaving the Premiership XV illustrates the exodus of talent facing English rugby's top flight this summer.

www.cityam.com

 

[Wilson]

Not Aussie, but an interesting insight into the state of English Premiership Rugby and the impact of salary cap/fiancés in player retention.

It’s of no coincidence that the exodus of Aussie players to the premiership has comparatively declined in recent years.

Leaving the Premiership XV: Line-up lays bare rugby talent drain

City A.M.'s Leaving the Premiership XV illustrates the exodus of talent facing English rugby's top flight this summer.

www.cityam.com

Yeah, the heat has really come out of the English market and there are a few clubs still looking pretty shaky. With everything going on in Wales it might slow a bit further too, particularly with uncapped Welsh players more likely than most to either qualify or have years towards residency in their favour.

France and Japan remain an issue, but with less money on offer in England the increasing supply of players may ease those markets back too.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Not Aussie, but an interesting insight into the state of English Premiership Rugby and the impact of salary cap/fiancés in player retention.

It’s of no coincidence that the exodus of Aussie players to the premiership has comparatively declined in recent years.

Leaving the Premiership XV: Line-up lays bare rugby talent drain

City A.M.'s Leaving the Premiership XV illustrates the exodus of talent facing English rugby's top flight this summer.

www.cityam.com

It’s a big concern. Obviously I want the Aus teams to retain talent but for rugby to take it to the next level, no market is more important than the English market. Not because Eng is some massive audience ready to take it to the next level. It’s because it’s an English speaking league and generally English leagues get it right for narrative and engagement building outside their walls. For all the improvements in the French league it will do little to gain traction for the sport worldwide. It might seem a little on the divisive side in 2023 but English is the language of business in the world. Almost in every country it’s the most spoken or the population has some comprehension of the language. It just leads to fans learning to understand and appreciate aspects of the associated business in this case Rugby. The French are very insular and generally have a different flavor on things than other populations. Rugby arguably has gone backwards since the last World Cup since the French have emerged as the major market. It’s a league that’s widely inaccessible outside Canal + subscribers and content generally converted to other markets is of minimal standard (just look at the top 14 games on BeIn and the lack of content over the last couple of years). The same could be said of the Japanese market, you probably couldn’t pick 2 more insular markets in the world where they really don’t care what happens outside own interests.

 

[Marce]

The French are very insular and generally have a different flavor on things than other populations

I don't think so. Perhaps you are talking about the old dear France but now is a different country, a cosmopolitan country. The population of Afro-French, Muslim and foreign-born residences have increase a lot in recents decades. The France we knew has gone.

Rugby is still a niche in England, a big one, but niche. Rugby is never gonna be so popular like football, it's just impossible. A sport that needs athletes who weigh +100 kg in average and are constantly injured is not for everyone, it's a tough sport

 

[Dctarget]

Alas I thought the Connacht-Australian link had been severed and they'd stop poaching our players but Scott Fardy has been appointed their defence coach on a 2 year basis. Pretty cool to see him moving up in the coaching ranks, wonder if we'll see him with a Super side one day.

 

[Adam84]

S Fardy was one of the names discussed for the Reds defensive coach late last year, good to see him getting a pro gig

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

He'd be a guy you want in your Club in any position. Love to have him do Defence and work with U20s if possible

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

S Fardy was one of the names discussed for the Reds defensive coach late last year, good to see him getting a pro gig

Just saw he's been announced as Connacht Defence Coach for the next 2 years.

 

[qwerty51]

James Ramm just picked up Northampton’s player of the year award..
Much bigger loss than Hansen I reckon, far better at breaking tackles.

 

[Dctarget]

James Ramm just picked up Northampton’s player of the year award..
Much bigger loss than Hansen I reckon, far better at breaking tackles.

Ramm will be behind 3 wingers for the rest of his career, maybe get a few caps.

Where as fkn Hansen will be a star Irish winger for a decade and go on two BIL tours. Still find Mack's defection much more painful.

 

[Members Section]

Force bringing him back, he never should have gone to Eng to play in the 2nd division in the 1st place

 

[qwerty51]

That’s only because Ireland can’t produce wingers, their other one is a Kiwi and they made Keith fucking Earls play 100 tests. He’ll “achieve” more but he’s not that big of a loss, he wouldn’t go close to a Wallabies cap - Ramm might.

 

[RebelYell]

Gloucester reluctantly make decision to let Jordy Reid leave

Gloucester has announced that flanker Jordy Reid will depart the club at the end of the 2022-23 season. Reid joined the Cherry & Whites...

www.rugbypass.com