swingpass
Peter Sullivan (51)
13 a side
no lineouts
minimal and really only non contested scrummaging
several (say 6) plays of the ball before turning over possession
something like that ?
Aussie Player Exodus
- Thread starter swingpass
- Start date
13 a side
no lineouts
minimal and really only non contested scrummaging
several (say 6) plays of the ball before turning over possession
something like that ?
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
If this happens, we won't be finished, but we will have to face the same reality that Britain and NZ faced in league decades ago. That is that the sport is much bigger and wealthier in another part of the world, so our best players are going to be signed to play there whether we like it or not. Thus, if that occurs and we want to be competitive, we'll have to pick players who are plying their trade overseas.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Nothing like that. But a quicker, cleaner, more attractive version of real rugby can definitely be devised by like-minded SH nations.
If the rest of the world wants to keep playing a game that worked well in the 20th Century, so be it.
T20 cricket is outrating Test cricket in Australis these days.
I'd be looking at 30 minute halves with the clock halted for all stoppages (plenty of time for ad breaks, with refs wired up to ensure that commercial breaks are not truncated), unlimited interchanges, no scrum or lineout penalties other than for dangerous play, tackling the ball-carrier allowed under all circumstances (goodbye long-distance rolling mauls), and a vastly simplified breakdown rule.
The purists would howl, just as they howled when one day cricket started all those years ago.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Ok, then we are going to become League supporters?
Most of "us" are now, actually.
We who are not, need to find ways to get them back to watching our game.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
get them and their kids playing it!
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
I think it's overstated how much bigger the club game apparently is in Europe.
Yes, the Top 14 is popular in France, but its attendance and viewing figures (which are pretty stable in recent years) are smaller than the NRL for example. And Australian rugby has managed to survive against that (I'm talking mostly in terms of attracting and retaining top players). There are 30 professional teams in France (including the Pro D2) so that's a lot of pieces of the "rugby market" pie.
The English league averages crowds of about 12k and viewing numbers of around 100k per game. Pro 12 is lower. These are not massive forces of nature.
Because our professional rugby is more concentrated (teams representing larger areas) most Super Rugby teams have bigger fan bases than most of the top European clubs. As we have a similar number of teams in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa combined to what exists in France or England alone, there's no reason we can't remain economically competitive and retain most top players. And with the geographical expansion of Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship, SANZAR's revenues should increase too.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Maybe the Waratahs and Reds have a larger fan base than European clubs, not sure sure about the other 3. But it's got more to do with the size of the economy in England and France in comparison to that in Aust, NZ & SAF. There's just more money to go around, plus the lifestyle choice particuarly if you have a young family. The Pulveriser might think it's clever to compare NRL away games in Cambelltown to Super away games in Cape Town, but these guys aren't going there for a holiday and 100m x 60m of grass is much the same anywhere, but when you have to go to Campbelltown it's a short drive and you can spend the night before and after with your family as opposed to weeks on the road/in the air. French and English club competitions offer better wages, without the travel.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
The salary cap in France is $15m aud this season and its going up over the next few years.
Compare that with $5m for our super rugby teams, all subsidised but losing money anyway (reds excluded for the moment).
You can see why people leave here, even without all the travel benefits
Compare that with $5m for our super rugby teams, all subsidised but losing money anyway (reds excluded for the moment).
You can see why people leave here, even without all the travel benefits
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
What other southern rugby league playing nations are going to breakaway with Australia?
PNG?
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
What.... 3.1million in France alone watched Clermont vs Munster.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
The one competitive advantage that rugby possesses over league and AFL is the international competition and being part of a worldwide sport. By playing a version of rugby which is not part of the rest of the rugby playing world, we lose that one advantage. I realise that the ARU are hopeless, but not even they would leave World Rugby for some sort of hybrid affair. And no subsidised trips to WR (World Rugby) meetings, RWC, EOYT etc. Ye gods, they might even have to go to Cambelltown and mix with the riff-raff
.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
This might happen, but I don't want to see it before it indisputably becomes necessary. ATM our best players are pretty much still in this country and eligible for Wallaby selection. On their form before they went overseas, I wouldn't have any of Giteau, O'Connor, Digby, Douglas, et al in preference to our best 15, and I am not convinced that overseas form is up to the same standard as The Rugby Championship or Super Rugby. They need to come back and consistently show they are at the top level for the best part of a Super comp to be considered for the Wallabies. The Honey Badger is the only one I'd consider on his form when he departed.
Even after RWC 2015, I don't think the situation will be all that dire. Sure, Izzy might leave but that's not certain. We won't really miss AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Genia, Horwill in the Wallabies post RWC. They would be replaced in the normal course if they stayed. We will miss Kepu.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
And how is one day cricket doing now?
Rugby has already has its own form of T20 - 7's.
Anyways, it's silly to be comparing the completely different sports.............
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I'm not saying I like the idea, but at some point it may become necessary. It just depends how much cash European clubs choose to splash around. We can't compete financially and won't be able to for the foreseeable future.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
I dont see why we would stop watching our Wallabies if we lost players overseas.
The game goes on and new talent comes into teams. This talent might only stay for 3-5 years until their contract is up and then head off overseas.
Fans have short memories.
As a Reds supporter I remember the bad patch a few years ago, but still watched and enjoyed the rare win even more as we were beating better teams.
Did the Brumbies fold when they lost their great players? Hell no, good players came along and the team became successful again.
While ever we have club rugby and super rugby we will be able to put a team on the field. When you look at this season we probably had as many players missing through injury as we would lose to overseas teams but we still watched.
Very few players are never surpassed for their skill level within about 5 years of leaving.
The game goes on and new talent comes into teams. This talent might only stay for 3-5 years until their contract is up and then head off overseas.
Fans have short memories.
As a Reds supporter I remember the bad patch a few years ago, but still watched and enjoyed the rare win even more as we were beating better teams.
Did the Brumbies fold when they lost their great players? Hell no, good players came along and the team became successful again.
While ever we have club rugby and super rugby we will be able to put a team on the field. When you look at this season we probably had as many players missing through injury as we would lose to overseas teams but we still watched.
Very few players are never surpassed for their skill level within about 5 years of leaving.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Source? Most games get significantly less than that. Under a million from what I've read.
Whatever the case, the broadcast deal for the Top 14 plus the French cut out of the Champions Cup deal is less than half what the NRL deal is per year. And the French deal is for both Top 14 and D2.
T
TOCC
Guest
And?
Club rugby in Europe, specifically the Top14 has gone from strength to strength with increasing crowds and TV rights, Super Rugby has plateaued for years with real value of TV rights barely increasing, crowds decreased in 2014..
You can't ignore the growing influence of club rugby in Europe, 2014 marked the signing of many new TV agreements for the NH, the effects of this will become more apparent in the next two seasons as the exodus of players increases.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Actually the Top 14 attendance numbers have been pretty much flat for about 5 years. They peaked in 2010/11.
Yep, they all just signed new TV deals worth much less than the codes we compete with directly in Australia - including the one we directly compete with. By some of the rhetoric you'd think European rugby was as big as the English Premier League. Lets see what the new SANZAR TV deal is before we raise the white flag.
I think things will remain as they have done for the past 5 years. We'll continue to lose guys near the end of their career, especially after world cups. And we'll continue to lose some young guys who feel like they're not a huge chance of playing for the Wallabies in the near future (but the better performed of these may well come back). We'll occasionally lose a guy in his prime, but I think it will continue to be rare, and often it will just be for 1 or 2 seasons. The opportunity to play for the Wallabies is a big lure and it also provides a competitive salary. Plus, being a star at test level increases your long term earning potential - for individual sponsorship and in terms of future contracts with European clubs.
The other thing is, there isn't an unlimited number of high paying positions on European squads for Australian players! All the leagues have caps on international players, all of them have salary caps, and all of them recruit players from the rest of the world too. Even if every single super rugby player in Australia wanted to move to the Top 14, Aviva Premiership or Pro 12, most of them wouldn't be able to.