Aussie Player Exodus

[KOB1987]

I did initially have KB (Kurtley Beale) on there but swapped him with Alan. Although he is highly paid he's only signed till the end of the year and I suspect transparency would have come into play during the negotiations.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Headline references AB but equally applicable to Wobs (& Bokke for that matter):

"Lord Myners, a former financial services secretary for the British government and ex-chairman of Marks & Spencer, has just completed a 55-page report on the salary cap, instigated by the excessive spending by champion club Saracens.

" "There are some existing areas of the regulations that are obviously not widely supported. Quite a few clubs expressed a desire to end the marquee player system on the grounds that it is inflationary, overcomplex and unnecessary. I have a great deal of sympathy with this position,” Lord Myners wrote in his report."

Not just marquee players in the gun, also the effect of their huge salaries on those of the players immediately below them on the pay scale:

" “It’s also worth noting that seven of this season’s 24 highest-remunerated players are not ‘marquee’. The 24 players in this cohort cost their various clubs a total of £14m (NZ$28m) in 2019/20.” "

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...nd-of-huge-pay-days-for-all-blacks-in-england

 

[Dan54]

Headline references AB but equally applicable to Wobs (& Bokke for that matter):

"Lord Myners, a former financial services secretary for the British government and ex-chairman of Marks & Spencer, has just completed a 55-page report on the salary cap, instigated by the excessive spending by champion club Saracens.

" "There are some existing areas of the regulations that are obviously not widely supported. Quite a few clubs expressed a desire to end the marquee player system on the grounds that it is inflationary, overcomplex and unnecessary. I have a great deal of sympathy with this position,” Lord Myners wrote in his report."

Not just marquee players in the gun, also the effect of their huge salaries on those of the players immediately below them on the pay scale:

" “It’s also worth noting that seven of this season’s 24 highest-remunerated players are not ‘marquee’. The 24 players in this cohort cost their various clubs a total of £14m (NZ$28m) in 2019/20.” "

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...nd-of-huge-pay-days-for-all-blacks-in-england

Had read that WOB and was hoping it would become reality!! Same as the story on putting 6Ns back a couple of months!

 

[formerflanker]

....three Queensland Reds stars refused to agree to salary reductions.
Test lock Izack Rodda and prospective Wallabies Harry Hockings and Isaac Lucas have all failed to sign the pay deal negotiated in mid-April between RA and the Rugby Union Players Association." (The Australian)
When players put $ before country, they must expect fans to put entertainment before patriotic support.

 

[RugbyReg]

Clause 4.7 of World Rugby regulations.

https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regulations/reg-4/reg-4/?lang=en

Reads to me that transfer fees are in place? QRU should get paid about $120k if the Picone 3 head overseas. Am I reading that right?

 

[Derpus]

^^^
Is it new? I've never heard compensation for training and development before.

 

[Highlander35]

For most players, depends on exactly what this means I think, I don't speak Lawyer good enough to figure it out.

4.7.2 In recognition of the investment made by Unions, Rugby Bodies or Clubs (as the case may be) in the training and/or development of Players, when:
(a) a Contract Player whose written agreement has expired enters into a written agreement for the first time with a Union, Rugby Body or Club outside his Home Union, his Home Union (or Rugby Body or Club in membership of his Home Union as the case may be) shall, be entitled to compensation for his training and/or development;
(b) a Non-Contract Player enters into a written agreement for the first time with a Union, Rugby Body or Club outside his Home Union, his Home Union (or Rugby Body or Club in membership of his Home Union as the case may be) shall be entitled to compensation for his training and/or development; and
(c) a Non-Contract Player moves outside his Home Union and retains his status as a Non-Contract Player, then, subject to Regulation 4.8.3, the Player’s Home Union (or Rugby Body or Club in membership of his Home Union, as the case may be) shall have no claim to compensation.

 

[RugbyReg]

So the way I read it Isi Naisirani leaving Fiji as an uncontracted player to come to Oz as an uncontracted player means there’s no fee payable.

But Izack Rodda going to Japan should mean we (QRU / RA) is entitled to the maximum amount available. 7 years x £5000.

 

[zer0]

There's some relevant further info down the page.

5. When can Compensation be Claimed?

5.1 The Union, and/or Rugby Body and/or Club who trained and developed a Player is entitled to claim compensation on the transfer of a Player's registration in the following circumstances only:

5.1.1 when a Contract Player, whose written agreement has expired, enters into a written agreement for the first time with a Union, Rugby Body or Club outside his Home Union (Regulation 4.7.2(a));

5.1.2 when a Non-contract Player enters into a written agreement for the first time with a Union, Rugby Body or Club outside his Home Union (Regulation 4.7.2(b));

5.1.3 if a Contract Player does not enter into a written agreement immediately, but enters into a written agreement outside his Home Union within 3 years of the date on which he competed in his last match as a Contract Player in his Home Union (Regulation 4.8.2);

5.1.4 if a Non-Contract Player does not enter a written agreement immediately, but enters into a written agreement for the first time with a Union, Rugby Body or Club outside his Home Union, within 3 years of the date on which he moved outside his Home Union, (Regulation 4.8.3).

To my not-lawyer mind, clauses 4.7.2(a) and, to a lesser extent, 4.7.2(b) look like avenues for a unions like RA and NZR to receive compensation payments when players head overseas.

I guess the two questions for mine are A) is this interpretation correct?; and, perhaps more importantly, B) how f*cken long has this version of Regulation 4 existed for? The timestamp at the top of the page is "21/04/2016 22:30". But that might just be when the page was created, and this may all be a much more recent update. Had a quick mooch around with the developer console and couldn't find any info on when it was last updated, though I'm far from a web development nerd. If this has indeed been sitting there since 2016, then this mustn't be an avenue for compensation, otherwise it would've, surely, come up by now?

 

[zer0]

So the way I read it Isi Naisirani leaving Fiji as an uncontracted player to come to Oz as an uncontracted player means there’s no fee payable.

My reading is that Fiji would be eligible for compensation under 4.7.2(b) (or maybe 4.8.3), so long as he left Fiji after he was 18 (I've no idea when he moved to Australia). If he moved before he was 18 -- the regulation counts development as starting from 17 and, presumably, works on a full year cycle -- then there would be no fee payable.

But Izack Rodda going to Japan should mean we (QRU / RA) is entitled to the maximum amount available. 7 years x £5000.

That's how I'd read it too. Though it would only be 6*£5000, going by the calculation they present here:

A = B x C

Where A = the compensation payable;

B = the Standard Annual Development Investment of £5,000[6];

C = the number of years, between the ages of 17 and 23, a player has spent in development programmes of the Current Union.

Though I don't always England and maths so good, so may be totally wrong on all accounts.

 

[Derpus]

Seems like 'Home Unions' are due compensation for training of players.

(C) seems weird to me. I think it's basically saying that if they move away from their Home Union (whatever that is) but don't sign another contract then the Home Union won't have any claim to compensation. Seems self evident - who would they claim compensation from? Under 4.8.3 the Home Union will be eligible if the non-contracted player signed within 3 years with another union.

 

[Derpus]

So the way I read it Isi Naisirani leaving Fiji as an uncontracted player to come to Oz as an uncontracted player means there’s no fee payable.

But Izack Rodda going to Japan should mean we (QRU / RA) is entitled to the maximum amount available. 7 years x £5000.

Wouldnt below mean that his Fijian club would be eligible for compensation as long as he signed a contract within 3 years of leaving Fiji?

4.8.3 Subject to Regulation 4.7.2(b) if, within three years of the date on which a Non-Contract Player moves outside his Home Union he enters into a written agreement in a different Union then his Home Union (or Rugby Body or Club in membership of his Home Union, as the case may be) shall be entitled to compensation for his training and/or development.

 

[Derpus]

Also - the fucks the difference between a Contracted player who's contract has expired and a non-contracted player.

 

[zer0]

No idea. Time of signing, maybe? I.e. a player contracted to the Reds signs with Sale to move there when his Reds contract expires may retain status as a contracted player, vs a player whose contract with the Reds ends without any other contract signed (or goes un-signed within a given time period) may become a non-contracted player?

The definitions are probably buried within the 400k word ""handbook"". Might have a look tomorrow while pretending to work from home.

 

[Derpus]

Got it (im fun at parties).

4.5.7 Players who are Registered and are currently receiving, or who have received, Material Benefit shall be regarded as Contract Players (save for those Players who are no longer classified as Contract Players in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 4.8.1 below). All other Players who are Registered shall be regarded as Non-Contract Players.

Basically there is no difference, a Non-Contracted Player is registered but not professional (i.e. not getting paid - which is what happens when your contract ends).

 

[swingpass]

"so with Hugh Pyle decamping before RWC 2015, and the exodus last year of Timani, Ionae, Mitchell and others to Europe; coupled with the parlous state of the ARU's finances and the very health budgets of, in particular French clubs, are we about to see a wholesale exodus of australian talent overseas.

quite probably both before as well as after the RWC. i say before, because if you a fringe Wallaby, who doesn't look like making the squad, you might as well jump early to get in whilst you can (Pyle's reasoning perhaps) and not miss out in the post 2015 stampede. does anyone have a rough estimate of how many australian super 15 players are off contract at the end of this year ?

these are professionals who will not unreasonably go where they can get the best deal.

this makes the NRC more important than ever"

above was my original post in April 2014, to start this thread.

new variation

so with Rodda, Lucas and Hockings apparently canceling contracts, and the exodus of Rangi and Cottrel and others to Japan, Gill, Skelton, others turning down offers to come home, coupled with the parlous state of the ARU's finances, the dire state of Super Rugby and the healthier(?) budgets, in particular, of Japanese clubs, are we about to see a wholesale exodus of Australian talent overseas- again

quite probably both before as well as after the COVID 19 quarantine. i say before, because even if you a Wallaby, who will almost certainly make the squad, you might as well jump early to get in whilst you can and not miss out in the post 2020 stampede. does anyone have a rough estimate of how many Australian super 15 players are off contract at the end of this year ?

these are professionals who will not unreasonably go where they can get the best deal, (paid at all ?)

this makes the complete overhaul and re-jigging of Rugby in Australia more important than ever

 

[rugboy]

JH reporting in the Australian that 16 Rebels players are poised to quit the club for overseas opportunities.

 

[upthereds#!]

Only 1 of those 16 I can figure needs to stay would be Koroibete? He signed a 2 year extension late 2019. Surely that would cover 2021?

Hopefully Magnay stays. Dissapointing Ainsley would leave. 3 cap wallaby and only 24. Born and bred in the otago region though so perhaps...better to go home if his Wallaby days are over already.

Hopefully Kellaway stays but will probably depend on wallaby selection this year. Deegan and Louwrens came back for wallaby shots but guess it wasn't seen in them so off they go again!

Many of them are ageing and journeymen who will never play for Australia again or ever and it's understandable. But it's also concerning that almost half of the pro squad had contracts finishing the same year...

 

[Rebels3]

If you read the article, it then goes on to confirm only 1 person has actually signed anywhere else. Honestly she is a vulture of a journalist that needs to be held accountable soon for her hyperbolic articles.

Plus where is she getting this info? I can tell you now she hasn’t called 16 players individually.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

If you read the article, it then goes on to confirm only 1 person has actually signed anywhere else. Honestly she is a vulture of a journalist that needs to be held accountable soon for her hyperbolic articles.

Plus where is she getting this info? I can tell you now she hasn’t called 16 players individually.

Pretty sure that Wessels has confirmed that Rangi and Cotterell are both leaving. Deals were done before the whole COVID/5G lockdown thing.