Aus rugby areas of depth and weakness

[the sabanator]

Interested to see other people's views on where we're deep at the moment, as a nation.
Personally I'd say wing (Ioane, Speight, Tomane, Shipperely, JOC (James O'Connor)), centre (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Fainga'a, Horne, McCabe), openside flanker (Pocock, Hooper, Gill) and hooker (Moore, TPN, Fainga'a). But we're lacking for world-class props, second rowers and big loosies.

 

[Bullrush]

If you're counting Fainga'a as a world class hooker then I think you should change which column you put 'Hooker' in.

 

[RugbyReg]

Call me crazy but I am fairly comfortable with our prop depth at the moment, albeit it is still developing.

But with Slipper and Holmes and the Reds (and I am still a big Daley fan but think his shoulder injury set his scrummaging back this year), Kepu, Robinson and Ryan at the Tahs; Palmer and Alexander at the Brumbies, Pek Cowan (who was in career best form this year pre-injury) and Longbottom out west, and then Weeks showing glimpses of his former (Red) self. There's plenty of promising signs there.

No 8 and hooker, probably big concerns.

And 13 is just (as usual) a vortex.

 

[disco]

I agree with Reg we've got good depth ATM I think the head coach is the problem. Look at the Saffas lock stock's who lost Bekker to injury and Matfield & Botha had retired. Meyer doesn't ask one of them to come out of retirement he threw in the two best super 15 locks they had & they performed.

Why bring back Sharpe when we have Simmons, Pyle, Neville, AWH & Douglas all performing well in the super 15? He Picks a dud like Timani & then doesn't have true faith in his selection so he asks Sharpe to hold off on retiring.

I think we're covered pretty well for the 6/8 positions with Higgers, Dennis, Palu, Mowen, McCalman & Schatz all covering those positions. Ok they're not all up there with Read, Kaino, Spies or Kankowski but hey RoSo had a long international career.

My biggest concern is halfback. I don't rate Phipps at all, Lucas is injury prone & Nic White looked the goods but then he had a few games where he temper got the better of him & his small man syndrome got the better of him in big games. We don't need another Sheehan/Valentine or Henjak we want another Whitaker.

I'd actually like to see James Stanard given a shot as he can cover 9-10-15.

 

[matty_k]

You're crazy.

I actually agree with you but I still wanted to call you crazy.

Our major issue is centres right now. Whether that is our current combo hasn't clicked yet our we still haven't found the right people I don't know.

 

[Forcefield]

Fainga'a sucks. We have depth at hooker because Moore and TPN are very solid and James Hanson and Nathan Charles are developing well to step up in the next few years. Great depth at 7 too. I think our props are doing all right. Some good looseheads at the very least. Good wingers. With Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, James O'Connor and Berrrick Barnes options at 10, we have good depth there. And lets not forget Dave Harvey.

There is daylight behind Kurtley Beale at fullback. I'd be worried about anyone other than him or maybe James O'Connor back there.

We still are seriously lacking in the centres. I like Adam Ashley Cooper at 13 but he gets shifted around far, far too much. Not a fan of Horne. Would like to see Nick Cummins tried at 13. But all our options there are a bit one-dimensional and it means we probably need a bit of an all rounder at 12. Maybe Tapuai or Barnes.

I think we are in a decent position with 6s. Dave Dennis is great. Scott Higginbotham is great. Luke Jones is a star in the making. What we are really missing there is another Palu. Or a time machine for Samo. Its a shame both Palu and Lopeti Timani are at the Tahs. I'd like to see what L. Timani could do with a full season or two at 8. Or maybe one of the Brumbies 8s.

Seriously lacking depth at 9. Right across Australia. Richard Kingi is wasted at the Rebels. We are starting to get a bit of a George Gregan situation happening with Will Genia.

Not enough quality locks. Will be interesting to how some of the guys like Caderyn Neville and Sam Carter progress. I seriously don't like Simmons. Would really like Kane Douglas to show the form he showed in his first season of Super Rugby.

 

[TOCC]

Centre,
We have depth in the sense that their are around 6 or so player who are vying for the position with their own unique strengths and weaknesses, however the issue is the quality of these players across the board, they simply aren't as good as the other centres getting around in test teams.

 

[disco]

Fullback can be covered by JOC (James O'Connor) & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

Inside centre #12: Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor), Tapuai
Outside centre # 13: AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, Fainga'a & Horne

I still think our best centre combo is Barnes & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

- Lock looks to be a concern with Sharpie on the way out and Horwill injured. I agree with Disco, however, that a few of these young locks should have been tried by now, especially Pyle.

- Eight is problematic too, though it rather depends on the style of player we want there. I like a big line bending ball-runner and Cliffy looks like the man on paper, but I've seen him not deliver too often to have him cementing that spot. I recall a few weeks ago the suggesting of playing Timani there. Hell yes, I say. Worth a shot, as I reckon his open field running would be more valuable there than as a lock (where he should be playing tighter). Of the others, Higgers has potential to be a very good test eight, especially if Dave Dennis continues his development at blindside.

- Fullback is light on if KB (Kurtley Beale) is unavailable. He is so far above any other candidate in that position it's not funny.

 

[Viking]

Winger we have depth, Mitchell, Ioane, JOC (James O'Connor) all world-class wingers. Tomane, Spreight, Shipperly on the rise also.

Centre I have to completely disagree. In terms of Test-match quality we arguably have only 1 or 2 or possibly none. I would say McCabe has developed into a solid test-match centre, and Barnes is also a solid 12. These are the only 2 centres that are proven Test players the rest still have a lot to prove eg. Horne, Fainga, and JOC (James O'Connor) as a centre. I rate Tapaui but he hasn't even played a test yet.

 

[qwerty51]

Tapuai's played 1 test.

 

[Hawko]

You'd think that the number two rugby nation in the world would have good international depth, but we keep telling ourselves that we haven't, which is supposedly why our Super sides are not very successful. It doesn't add up to me. I think we have got massive issues over head coach depth, with only a couple of good head coaches, none of whom are currently coaching the Wallabies. But how would you define good depth? Maybe you are OK with three goodies in each position and very comfortable if there are four plus a couple of up-and-comers.

I think it becomes clearer if you sit down and look at the good alternatives for each position:

• 15. Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), then maybe Foley. After that its all rising stars like Mogg, Morahan, Mafi, Lance, Lucas, Coleman. So, we are tight for depth at 15.
• 11/14. Ioane, Mitchell, Turner, Tomane, Speight, Kingston, Shipperley, Cummins (or is he a 13?). Add in that you can use JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and there are a lot of options. I don't rate Vuna yet, maybe he will come good on defense, and there are some others coming through. That depth looks excellent to me.
• 13. This is the problem position in the backline, primarily because Deans insists on playing McCabe at 12. McCabe is the best skilled 13 we have. Horne, Cummins, Fainga'a, Inman, Smith all have claims but IMO they all have deficiencies. We have depth but no great strength.
• 12. Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor), Tapuai, Harris, Coleman. Lots of depth. Why you would play McCabe there with that talent lining up is a mystery.
• 10. Cooper, Lealiifano, with Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale all able to come in. To'omua, Holmes, Lance, all developing. Depth is not a problem.
• 9. Genia, White, then it suddenly falls away alarmingly. Kingi, Stannard, Turner, McKibben, Lucas, Stirzacker all have some claim. Phipps played himself out of contention this year.
• 8. Palu, Auelua, Mowen, McCalman on the first rank but then Dennis and Higgers can also be drafted in. Plenty of depth, injury concerns over Palu and Auelua.
• 7. Pocock, Hooper, Gill, Hodgson. All four would not disgrace the jersey.
• 6. Higgers, Dennis on the frontline with Schatz, Brown, Jones, Saffy, Kimlin, McCutcheon and Fardy on the second line.
• 4/5. Horwill and Sharp stand out. After that there is a long line of pretenders: Simmons has not taken his chances, AWH was immense but now injured, Timani has not taken his chances, Douglas should be tried at tight-head lock, Pyle deserves a chance, Neville could be anything, Carter and Fardy have potential. There is a lot of depth but no one has yet taken a spot and said "Its mine".
• 3. Kepu, Palmer, Slipper with probably Ryan and Longbottom next. Please no one mention Alexander. Good depth.
• 2. Moore, TPN clearly our best. Then there is a log-jam of possibles - Charles, Hanson, Whittaker, Robinson, Fainga'a and Fitzpatrick. Charles looks the best of these at the moment. One needs to step up.
• 1. Robinson our best but Holmes and Cowan have played well this year. Alexander has even hinged this year at LHP and will be found out in the internationals. Moving Slipper over temporarily might be our best back-up after Holmes (Cowan is injured).

The problems are at 4/5 and 13. Barring bad injury runs at 9, the rest should be OK for depth. Most of the top ten countries would love to have our depth, particularly in the backs. We are in a golden age with Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor), Tapuai, Mitchell, Beale and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Up till now though, it has been hopelessly squandered. If we don't go well in the RC and the Bledisloe then its time to make some changes.

 

[TOCC]

Tapuai's played 1 test.

it was against the Barbarians.. So not counted as a test cap

 

[Riptide]

Centre,
We have depth in the sense that their are around 6 or so player who are vying for the position with their own unique strengths and weaknesses, however the issue is the quality of these players across the board, they simply aren't as good as the other centres getting around in test teams.

I agree with this.

We have competent depth at lock and center and back row but real quality is lacking.

 

[TOCC]

Well... lets put it this way.. If for some reason i was able to select 2 players from another country.. then it would be the Franks brothers..
Following that i would take SBW and Jamie Roberts...

 

[fatprop]

Lock, 8 and 13 are the issues, the rest are OK.

 

[Lindommer]

Timani at 8? I claim first place for suggesting McCabe be given a run at 13 but you've beaten me to this one, TBH. An excellent suggestion, now why didn't I think of that? The more I think of it it makes sense: Timani doesn't do enough of the Thorn-style grunt stuff to warrant a run in the Wallaby second row but his ball-running's exemplary, that is when he catches it. Can someone suggest a brand of sticky rubber mittens.

 

[Scoey]

The telling thing for me is that ANY discussion on here around the Wallabies ALWAYS decends into who we play in the centres and people's various preferred combo's there and the fact that we have S.Timani in the squad.

To me, that tells me where the percieved problem is. Centres (the #13 and the actual combo depending on the 13) and our locks.

 

[wamberal]

Both the Timani brothers should play some basketball in the off-season, learn some ball skills, and learn how to use their bodies.

They are big enough, and fast enough (and probably strong enough) to be world-beaters. If they were living in New Zealand, they probably would be world-beaters by now, either that or they would be playing park rugby only.

 

[RugbyReg]

it was against the Barbarians.. So not counted as a test cap

he came off the bench v Wales late last year.