Auckland Blues vs Brumbies RD 10 2017

[RedsHappy]

I'm still desparately keen to hear from the ARU:

- why, oh why, is Larkham the 'anointed' next Wallaby HC and

- why are the Brumbies immune from a 'candidate to be culled' Aus Super team?

Good, plain, rational and fact-based explanations will suffice.

Will they ever come?

 

[Gnostic]

Wow, Gnostic....



I'm amazed you can become so worked up over something I never said.



I never said that he was better than those players....



I stated that he we playing better than what was expected of him considering he was drafted last minute from NZ club rugby, and had been one of the better performing Aussie 10's this year due to the performances from other players considering guys like Foley and Lance have missed some game time, Cooper has been well below his best, and the other contenders have been very poor.



I suppose it's too much to expect an apology for such a childish, personal overreaction on your part?

Slim - you will surely know when I am "worked up". you said,

In fact, Australian flyhalf stocks are so bad that he's probably one of the better performing 'Aussie' flyhalves this year.

that would mean out of 5 (OK 7 or 8 with reserves) Hawera is "one of the better flyhalves this year". Or does your direct quote actually mean something other than it said, my initial reply was to point out that IMO your statement was incorrect, and obviously also the opinion of a few others including it would seem Louie.

As for the rest of your quoted post, I am truly sorry you are unable to be objective and critical about anything to do with Brumbies Rugby. Again I am not worked up, though thank you for your concern.

 

[TSR]

Redshappy - I agree with your two points above, but I would have to say that I think that the dire state of game is at least as much the fault of the QRU &
NSWRU as it is the fault of the ARU. They are both very fortunate to be indisposable otherwise either would be very deserving of the chop.

Gnostics - I agree on your interpretation of Larkham the coach, but Larkham the player? Mate, he was first class. I really can't see the foundation of your criticism.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm still desparately keen to hear from the ARU:



- why, oh why, is Larkham the 'anointed' next Wallaby HC and



- why are the Brumbies immune from a 'candidate to be culled' Aus Super team?



Good, plain, rational and fact-based explanations will suffice.



Will they ever come?

Rugby Governance in Australia - mutually exclusive.

Billy P says "We can though achieve a moving timetable for the announcement to decide on a process that may or may not provide a candidate for the Force (Oh Shit)... sorry I misspoke, one of the Australian Super sides to be retired from the Super Competition."
journo asks "So the Brumbies, Tahs and Reds are now also being reviewed?"

Billy P "No, I didn't say that, I would direct you to look at previous ARU press releases regarding the process, timetables and candidates regarding the Force being culled. Thanks you no more questions."

Bill to Cameron - "well that went well I think".

 

[Brumby Runner]

That was awful and arrogant performance from the brumbies. What makes them think their so good to play out of there own half? kick the bloody thing the corners, chase hard and earn the right to play. How many games go by with our forwards standing there looking at the other team dominate the ruck.

Whose the replacement for Hawera? surely there's a better SS flyhalf running around. He's doesn't know were to stand. Getting worse.

Only highlight were Joe Powell and Tom Banks. Everyone else as bog average.

The Blues must have held the ball for over 60% of the game. So, wouldn't more kicking just gift them more possession? I think they are trying to play the game with more intelligence and creativity and really want to see them continue and hopefully improve. They are mostly missing a strong pilferer over the ball at the breakdown - where's Pocock when you need him. With Poey back, they will be closer to matching the best.

Banks did very good at fullback. Maybe Toua should get a start at No 10? He seems to have a bit of vision for the game and can set up runners. Probably not the worst option. Hawera could well come good in time. He is only young and has a handful of first class games to his credit only.

 

[Gnostic]

Redshappy - I agree with your two points above, but I would have to say that I think that the dire state of game is at least as much the fault of the QRU &

NSWRU as it is the fault of the ARU. They are both very fortunate to be indisposable otherwise either would be very deserving of the chop.



Gnostics - I agree on your interpretation of Larkham the coach, but Larkham the player? Mate, he was first class. I really can't see the foundation of your criticism.

Not really about Larkham but I just don't rate him as a truly great 10, but in all honesty that is more to do with the Macqueen game plan than the player, as he never got to play anything away from Macqueen's unlimited tackle league style game, which could have shown if he truly had the skill set of say a Michael Lynagh, Andrew Mertens or Dan Carter.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Anyway, back to the game...

 

[TSR]

Not really about Larkham but I just don't rate him as a truly great 10, but in all honesty that is more to do with the Macqueen game plan than the player, as he never got to play anything away from Macqueen's unlimited tackle league style game, which could have shown if he truly had the skill set of say a Michael Lynagh, Andrew Mertens or Dan Carter.

Hmmm.... I get what your saying, but I still think your selling him short.

I'd kill to have a 10 with his ability available at the moment.

Edit: sorry BJ - was typing this while you posted. Will leave it at that.

 

[mst]

Nah, Hawera has done better than what was expected off him... he's certainly far from being the worst performing Brumby.

TBH, with the attacking structures and game plan atm even the likes of Cruden and Barrett would struggle to do much better. The Brumbies are passive, slow, mostly static, rarely have support, nearly every player steps sideways first unless its just one up stuff, and they mainly go laterally.

Their attack is old school basic and impotent. Some of the cattle should not be out there and the team needs change away from the old ways and over structured mediocrity.

The kick chase (lack of) 5 minutes from the end is the perfect indictment of the Brumbies mentality, culture and game plan at the moment. With the game on the line they just amble up field making sure they retain their defence structure. No though of going hard it it for a win, just protect the losing bonus point.

Nothing will change until we get a coaching change. I would even take Hill atm. What terrifies me most is that we will end up with McKellar and be stuck with this mid table mediocrity with this for the next few season.

To give you advanced warning to brace yourselves - yep, we have to play the Kings away yet!

 

[RoffsChoice]

I back Powell and Hawera to come good for the Brumbies; they have the talent and we have a pedigree for developing players. Hawera has been a bit more exposed since Godwin went down, but that seems more closely related to Smith filling in that 12 role in our first-reciever-by-committee approach.

But our outside backs haven't let us down all season. I'm thrilled by the renewed form of Kuridrani and Speight! Kuridrani is basically a shoe-in for the Gold 13, and Speight is fighting hard to compete with Naivalu.

Our forwards are tremendous. Hell, with Sio and Smiler fit, you could probably argue that three-quarters of the Wallabies forwards should be Brumbies.

 

[RoffsChoice]

The kick chase (lack of) 5 minutes from the end is the perfect indictment of the Brumbies mentality, culture and game plan at the moment. With the game on the line they just amble up field making sure they retain their defence structure. No though of going hard it it for a win, just protect the losing bonus point.

Nothing will change until we get a coaching change. I would even take Hill atm. What terrifies me most is that we will end up with McKellar and be stuck with this mid table mediocrity with this for the next few season.

The damning moment of the game was that kick through in the last five minues, when Toua is racing up but looks around and sees nobody with him.

I'm scared of either McKellar or Fisher coming in; we don't need continuity of a coaching system that isn't working, and we don't need to give Laurie a third chance when the first two didn't work.

 

[louie]

The Blues must have held the ball for over 60% of the game. So, wouldn't more kicking just gift them more possession? I think they are trying to play the game with more intelligence and creativity and really want to see them continue and hopefully improve. They are mostly missing a strong pilferer over the ball at the breakdown - where's Pocock when you need him. With Poey back, they will be closer to matching the best.

The blues were playing a rush aggressive defence. No once was there a grubber kick in behind to turn the defence. There's no point trying to play a creative game from your own half if your not that good at it. At least put them under pressure.

We don't need a pilferer, we need a pack that counter rucks.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

No once was there a grubber kick in behind to turn the defence

Seemed neither side wanted to kick so we wound up with 80 mins of league style one-off hit-ups. Grubbers might’ve worked but maybe Hawera didn’t back himself to do it right? Cos fuck it up and, staggered broken play, hello, that’s Blues Polynesian basketball jailbreak time.

We don't need a pilferer, we need a pack that counter rucks.

AIoane and Luatua were fucking everyones shit up for Blues counter rucking, just one man wrecking balls in there. Hoping Hansen can be mature enough to consider Luatua for Lions tour even though he’s probably livid the young fella will set himself and his family up for life later in the year by playing at some dreary frozen bogsnot rec centre in Bristol in front of 114 old men who all wished they had died yesterday.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not really, Larkham has pretty much no experience as a head coach (yet is somehow already anointed as the next Wallabies HC) and I never bought into the whole Larkham is wonderful at 10 rubbish, he was perfect for the constant recycle shuffle the ball game Macqueen played is all.

Gnostic. I used to think you had a very good take on everything rugby, but if you think Larkham only constantly recycled and shuffled the ball on, then I'm afraid you have hugely disappointed me.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not really about Larkham but I just don't rate him as a truly great 10, but in all honesty that is more to do with the Macqueen game plan than the player, as he never got to play anything away from Macqueen's unlimited tackle league style game, which could have shown if he truly had the skill set of say a Michael Lynagh, Andrew Mertens or Dan Carter.

That's like saying no No 10 has ever been good because they weren't (aren't) as good as Lynagh, Mertens and Carter. A bit like saying Hawera isn't any good because he's not as good as Cooper, Foley or Lance. You are a very hard marker G.

But I think you are also a bit off the mark. First, Larkham had a fairly impressive career post-McQueen. He was the Brumbies No 10 when they won Super Rugby competitions in 2001 and 2004. Who were the coaches in those days? Seem to remember people named Jones and Nucifora. And I'd argue that Larkham easily had the measure of Merts during his hey day and was widely recognised as the equal or near equal of Dan Carter pretty well around the world. So, I think you should probably get off the McQueen wagon and remember the good times with Bernie when he was leading the best national side in the world (Wallabies) around the playing field.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Larkham *not* an all-time great Aussie 10? Fuck me I've heard it all now. It's like that idiot who came here a year or so ago and said that Eales was overrated.

I can accept criticism of Bernie as a coach, but never as a player. I think you'll find that the blokes who played against him thought he was pretty useful.

 

[Gnostic]

TBH, with the attacking structures and game plan atm even the likes of Cruden and Barrett would struggle to do much better. The Brumbies are passive, slow, mostly static, rarely have support, nearly every player steps sideways first unless its just one up stuff, and they mainly go laterally.



Their attack is old school basic and impotent. Some of the cattle should not be out there and the team needs change away from the old ways and over structured mediocrity.



The kick chase (lack of) 5 minutes from the end is the perfect indictment of the Brumbies mentality, culture and game plan at the moment. With the game on the line they just amble up field making sure they retain their defence structure. No though of going hard it it for a win, just protect the losing bonus point.



Nothing will change until we get a coaching change. I would even take Hill atm. What terrifies me most is that we will end up with McKellar and be stuck with this mid table mediocrity with this for the next few season.



To give you advanced warning to brace yourselves - yep, we have to play the Kings away yet!

Great post, but it is not just the Brumbies, it is the whole Australian Rugby conference. The Brumbies have the lowest error rate and hence lead the conference, but that isn't much considering the competition. I think the Brumbies still have a positive PD +3 IIRC, which is a very sad indictment on the state of Australian Rugby when you consider they are by FAR the best.

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic. I used to think you had a very good take on everything rugby, but if you think Larkham only constantly recycled and shuffled the ball on, then I'm afraid you have hugely disappointed me.

Do I have to agree with general consensus because it is so? I can sit down and argue the point purely on a skills basis in comparative terms etc etc. and why I think is so. Certainly would need its own thread and I sure nobody would be that interested and it would cause certain people to explode in indignation. It really is the same argument that people have about Campese, some people love his play others prefer to see defensive weakness and high risk stuff ups.

It is after all my opinion and three or four lines extremely briefly outlining part of why should not be such a massive cause for angst, though for some its like defacing their book of scriptures etc.

As an aside of the aside, I must say I still enjoy the replies I seem to elicit because it is still an education in sociology, and this is not directed at you in anyway at all Brumby Runner, how some will, after all this time and what has happened in Australian Rugby this year, try to control and shut down a debate by the means of pandering to the perceived popular, belittle the offending poster in passive aggressive ways so as not to elicit offence themselves but to show the offending poster is not in the group, they are the outsider and somehow illegitimate. I find it a very interesting study in the new age of communications.

 

[mst]

Great post, but it is not just the Brumbies, it is the whole Australian Rugby conference. The Brumbies have the lowest error rate and hence lead the conference, but that isn't much considering the competition. I think the Brumbies still have a positive PD +3 IIRC, which is a very sad indictment on the state of Australian Rugby when you consider they are by FAR the best.

You have identified the same issue i believe is the key issue holding Australian teams back. Aussie rugby is so worried about making errors that play themselves out of the game. Its a mentality issue, and an issue coached and trained in to them.

Aussie sides are consumed with defence and as such won't take the chances in attack. This is where the structure issue stem from. Good defence relies on good disciplined structure but that has been so well ingrained its entrenched in our players its habitual, and in game plans and has become so ridiculously predicated on the concept (arguably obsessively) that its used as a platform for our attack which has lead to it being is basic and predictable. Mick Byrne has clearly identified Aussie rugby can play unstructured, and its also been well proven on the rugby field when we play Kiwi teams. IMHO, this is the root cause.

Kiwi teams and even the Lions take an approach that to out score you they will take chances that will lead to errors that will cost them points; but the rewards are more point than the blead so they know will outscore you doing it.

Have a quick look at the way the Kings and the Sunwolves played on the weekend. They are now progressing far more than any Aussie teams and starting to mix it with the best by taking the risks to get rewards.

Nothing will change until we get fresh blood in the coaches box. As for the current crop of coaches like Larkham, they need significant time away from Aussie Rugby to break the habits and moulds, and mentality and get exposed to see things from a new prospective.

As for the Larkham player criticism, I certainly don't agree, and I think with some fresh prospective he could be a really good coach.

 

[Slim 293]

I am truly sorry you are unable to be objective and critical about anything to do with Brumbies Rugby. Again I am not worked up, though thank you for your concern.