In Sydney the ARU has got the age groups right with the JGC but it should be all the district teams playing one another week in week out. Call them younger age colts ! strengthen club rugby across the board not just certain clubs !
ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships
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Hugie
Ted Fahey (11)
Fat Cat, agree strongly, the districts should work straight off the back of the JGC comp. and run a districts comp on Saturdays to rival the Saturday schools comp, so that the boys have a choice. And the base is expanded.
It's not about mirroring what the league is doing but drawing from a much larger base. It must be obvious by now from the Wobbs. performance, that the problem is lack of depth, coming from a narrow base.
It's not about mirroring what the league is doing but drawing from a much larger base. It must be obvious by now from the Wobbs. performance, that the problem is lack of depth, coming from a narrow base.
I think can the JGC, pump more money into the regional areas. Run the younger age colts 15's and 17's rugby in Sydney on a Sunday so schools and club rugby can participate. Leave schools and league to do their thing on a Saturday. Gives more opportunity for more kids to play at a higher level, brings more coaches through, more games for selectors to watch, strengthens shute shield. gets rid of the black hole in club rugby from 15's onward. doesn't cost too much.
Dingasden
Ward Prentice (10)
Well said, I couldn't agree more with the above comments. 11 years playing rugby my son is now 15 never wanted to go to a private school. He wanted to walk to school. He loves rugby more than any kid I know (& I have been around a bit). Many parents cant afford Private schools even with half scholarship. A few of my club players I nominated to try out never did as their attitude is "they will just pick all the private school kids" Until we can turn this around and change this perception in kids and their parents, nothing will be any different than it is today. As stated above, I just hope the ARU looks very thoroughly at the talent on offer outside of private schools cause there is plenty.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
The last few posts have hit on one of the challenges of the JGC. Is it developmental or to win a Cup?
If the former, then it must be accepted that the standard will not be "elite" level and in many respects that is what we want for rugby; more players playing at a higher standard and feeling that they are "loved" by the ARU.
If the latter, there will be the temptation to stack teams, warehouse talent, and entice kids from the "elite" private schools programme all for the purpose of winning. The better kids will get better, and the battlers will remain "unloved" and undeveloped.
If the "elite" school players are excluded from JGC, what measures does the ARU have in place to ensure that the boys on that "pathway" will receive the necessary skills development along the lines of the "national curriculum" that will be taught to those in the JGC programme. There is a big assumption that 1st XV, MIC Rugby etc at the "elite" schools are good at developing talent. Most probably are, but their focus is on winning the 1st XV competition, and if they have to play a full back at #10 to do that then that is what they will do.
Competition is good but it can also currupt the long term development process as coaches prepare sides to win championships rather than see games as a means to validate the overall skills development regime.
Some posters seem to feel that the JGC (particularly the U17's) will be somehow second rate because the best of the best players are not in the programme.
Others feel that that is good because it means that more kids will be getting exposure to high level skills development, rather than the usual few rockstars.
Others seem to think that what we are currently doing is OK with the various district and Zone development programmes, feeding in to State championships, city vs country, and interstate games.
What hasn't really been explained yet is (using the NSW example) what changes if any will there be for the rest of the pathway outside the JGC as in NSW Country Juniors Championships, NSW Schools Under 16 tournament for U16's, National U16 tournament, NSW JRU State Championships for U17's, and U15's, Sydney Juniors Regional tournament for U15 and U17, Sydney vs Country, and the NSW JRU State team's games agains the ACT JRU and QJRU.
Technically a top level 2013 Under 15 lad will not come to the attention of the ARU development machine until 2014/2015 U17's JGC. Consider the case of a 2013 U14 boy (who does not attend an elite private school), who was injured over the last couple of weekends trials and therefore did not come before the attention of the selectors. He will potentially will not receive any ARU development until the 2016/17 U17 JGC.
I like the idea that some of the previously tier 2 boys will receive development opportunities that they would not have received under the pathway as it has been run over the last 5-10 years.
I can see some great benefits for the Country Unions and states outside NSW and QLD. That must be good for rugby.
I see this as some maintenance finally being performed on the pathway rather than a fundamental change to the pathway. That must come later.
It is a wonder that any kids have actually been able to navigate the pathway over the past little while given the lack of lighting and the overall rutted and potholed nature of the surface on the pathway to Gold.
It seems to me to be that the ARU have finally decided to replace some of the lightbulbs on the pathway that have been vandalised by self interest, and entrenched interest groups. There is a fair amount of work to be done, but this is an encouraging move.
If the former, then it must be accepted that the standard will not be "elite" level and in many respects that is what we want for rugby; more players playing at a higher standard and feeling that they are "loved" by the ARU.
If the latter, there will be the temptation to stack teams, warehouse talent, and entice kids from the "elite" private schools programme all for the purpose of winning. The better kids will get better, and the battlers will remain "unloved" and undeveloped.
If the "elite" school players are excluded from JGC, what measures does the ARU have in place to ensure that the boys on that "pathway" will receive the necessary skills development along the lines of the "national curriculum" that will be taught to those in the JGC programme. There is a big assumption that 1st XV, MIC Rugby etc at the "elite" schools are good at developing talent. Most probably are, but their focus is on winning the 1st XV competition, and if they have to play a full back at #10 to do that then that is what they will do.
Competition is good but it can also currupt the long term development process as coaches prepare sides to win championships rather than see games as a means to validate the overall skills development regime.
Some posters seem to feel that the JGC (particularly the U17's) will be somehow second rate because the best of the best players are not in the programme.
Others feel that that is good because it means that more kids will be getting exposure to high level skills development, rather than the usual few rockstars.
Others seem to think that what we are currently doing is OK with the various district and Zone development programmes, feeding in to State championships, city vs country, and interstate games.
What hasn't really been explained yet is (using the NSW example) what changes if any will there be for the rest of the pathway outside the JGC as in NSW Country Juniors Championships, NSW Schools Under 16 tournament for U16's, National U16 tournament, NSW JRU State Championships for U17's, and U15's, Sydney Juniors Regional tournament for U15 and U17, Sydney vs Country, and the NSW JRU State team's games agains the ACT JRU and QJRU.
Technically a top level 2013 Under 15 lad will not come to the attention of the ARU development machine until 2014/2015 U17's JGC. Consider the case of a 2013 U14 boy (who does not attend an elite private school), who was injured over the last couple of weekends trials and therefore did not come before the attention of the selectors. He will potentially will not receive any ARU development until the 2016/17 U17 JGC.
I like the idea that some of the previously tier 2 boys will receive development opportunities that they would not have received under the pathway as it has been run over the last 5-10 years.
I can see some great benefits for the Country Unions and states outside NSW and QLD. That must be good for rugby.
I see this as some maintenance finally being performed on the pathway rather than a fundamental change to the pathway. That must come later.
It is a wonder that any kids have actually been able to navigate the pathway over the past little while given the lack of lighting and the overall rutted and potholed nature of the surface on the pathway to Gold.
It seems to me to be that the ARU have finally decided to replace some of the lightbulbs on the pathway that have been vandalised by self interest, and entrenched interest groups. There is a fair amount of work to be done, but this is an encouraging move.
S'UP
Bill Watson (15)
I agree with Hughthere is still plenty of information that needs to be distributed regarding the changes if any to the pathway. But as I have said before the ARU need to step up to the plate and run the show while ever we have comments like those of behindthescenes stating the schools should just be left to do their own thing we'll have problems.
Can someone find me a boy who goes to a GPS school that plays in any age group that has a C next to it and below that is actually happy with the coaching they receive, i certainly cannot find one. GPS players are developed to do one thing win the 1st 15 nothing else. Let the schools pick their top 40 boys and let the rest play club rugby with everyone else, oh sorry that already happens but only till they are 16 then it has to stop because we have a 1st 15 comp to win and the 16's National championship is over. But I digress back to JGC can someone tell me why Brisbane has 4 teams with a population of just over 2m and Sydney only has 4 with a population of 4.75m? No surprise the Brisbane team had C's graders, also no surprise they are having trouble picking the Sydney teams, as those at the sydney trials will agree there were very few kids that didn't look like the belonged in the company they were in.
Can someone find me a boy who goes to a GPS school that plays in any age group that has a C next to it and below that is actually happy with the coaching they receive, i certainly cannot find one. GPS players are developed to do one thing win the 1st 15 nothing else. Let the schools pick their top 40 boys and let the rest play club rugby with everyone else, oh sorry that already happens but only till they are 16 then it has to stop because we have a 1st 15 comp to win and the 16's National championship is over. But I digress back to JGC can someone tell me why Brisbane has 4 teams with a population of just over 2m and Sydney only has 4 with a population of 4.75m? No surprise the Brisbane team had C's graders, also no surprise they are having trouble picking the Sydney teams, as those at the sydney trials will agree there were very few kids that didn't look like the belonged in the company they were in.
F
fireball
Guest
Good points s'up I'd even go further re gps coaching it isn't just the c's who may not be happy I've watched a lot having had boys in the system the last 6 years. They have played in A's throughout the age groups but often what I see is baffling. Selections are a big problem the coaches lock into kids and stop looking at others. The great thing about jgc is that it may give a shot to some of the boys who've been overlooked. The trials weren't a perfect guide but it was great to see boys turning up with reputations left on the sideline and taking their chances. I wish there was more of this at gps.
Gary Owen III
Syd Malcolm (24)
Good point re the populations - I would guess that the numbers of centres in the Sydney Metro area will grow over time as the ARU get a better handle on this program.
And I appreciate the tyranny of distance but six centres in the bush compared to four in the city will surely change as well. Spreading the country talent that thin may not yield the best results either when it comes to the competition part.
Shane Smeltz
Fred Wood (13)
Well there is clearly too much talent in Sydney, far more than the 120 spots available.
I have heard about boys who have missed out; boys who play A grade club, boys that are at private schools and play A grade at their private school, boys that played Reps at the state champs this past June.
All this talk about B and C grade players getting spots in other states, and private school boys not even bothering to trial, consider yourself lucky because there are plenty of A grade and private school boys here in Sydney tonight who are feeling very sad and disappointed.
And it took SJRU nine (nine!) days to let the boys know. Come on.
I have heard about boys who have missed out; boys who play A grade club, boys that are at private schools and play A grade at their private school, boys that played Reps at the state champs this past June.
All this talk about B and C grade players getting spots in other states, and private school boys not even bothering to trial, consider yourself lucky because there are plenty of A grade and private school boys here in Sydney tonight who are feeling very sad and disappointed.
And it took SJRU nine (nine!) days to let the boys know. Come on.
S'UP
Bill Watson (15)
It's an ARU run competition so you are being a bit hard on SJRU, what age group are you talking about? My understanding is the selectors had grading systems ie tackle drills you get a score, ruck you get a score, game play you get a score etc and selection went from there. there was always going to be disappointed boys you can ask all the questions in the world but unfortunately thats the way it goes. I've been through it with my boy played reps all his life from 10 to 16 in the starting side but didn't get a run in JGS until they added a trial last year. Work hard, train hard, grow up and see what happens that all you can say.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...-bias-gold-squads-unfairness-etc.8261/page-30
The thread above was set up to discuss selection bias and unfairness in selection for Gold Squads and rep teams and the like.
It has been found that isolating posts about selection bias and unfairness in one thread and removing that discussion from the general thread adds positively to both threads.
If you want to have a decent shot at the selections or bias in the process then fill your boots to your hearts desire on the above thread. If you are going to do so, it is probably not a very wise move to name names of kids who missed out. In some instances, these are 14 year old children we are talking about, and many parents can be a little uncomfortable with their childs name appearing on blog forums.
Please try to keep this thread for more general discussion on the JGC.
The thread above was set up to discuss selection bias and unfairness in selection for Gold Squads and rep teams and the like.
It has been found that isolating posts about selection bias and unfairness in one thread and removing that discussion from the general thread adds positively to both threads.
If you want to have a decent shot at the selections or bias in the process then fill your boots to your hearts desire on the above thread. If you are going to do so, it is probably not a very wise move to name names of kids who missed out. In some instances, these are 14 year old children we are talking about, and many parents can be a little uncomfortable with their childs name appearing on blog forums.
Please try to keep this thread for more general discussion on the JGC.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^ Apparently to be posted on a variety of ARU and rugby related web sites (Sydney Juniors ??) by the end of this week apparently.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
F
fireball
Guest
The selectors have done a good job of mixing up the sides. They all look very competitive. Congrats to the boys who made it they will all be better for the experience.
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