ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[Stripes]

Thanks Animal. I could swear that yesterday when I checked Rugby link had CQ at 38 and WA at 12. I checked it several times cause I couldn't believe it! But you are right, today rugby link is showing WA as the winners, which is what I expected the result to be.


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[Sunny]

Move forward people Gold and Ippy have both done extremely well and if's and but's will not change the outcome of the game it's done.
The gap between the Brisbane metro teams is so narrow, It's shows what great depth there is, even without some of the boys not participating.
It's a real pitty that only the top of each pool goes through, a cross over of the top 2 in each pool might be more justifiable for all.

 

[stratosph3R3]

...
It's a real pitty that only the top of each pool goes through, a cross over of the top 2 in each pool might be more justifiable for all.

I like the idea that the top two progress, provided that the length of the competition is not extended. I know two of the ACT boys travel from Griffith to train in Canberra each week - an 8hr round trip. My guess there may be a few other regional players in the same boat.


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[Garry Owens]

Or just run a for and against differential determinant if teams are tied at the top of the table - which is a more conventional determinant

 

[tbhc]

Hello JGC forum section!

 

[Christian Cullen]

GO


Normally I would agree with points for & against system in a Rep scenario where winning means everything but I understand the reason for it not in JGC format…

Enables more players to be played & rotated.

If it came down to PF & PA you would find teams always be starting their strongest team & reserves would barely hit the field & with squads of 28 you would find 10 players complaining about time instead of 1 or 2.

Teams like WA would be unfairly represented with a 35 man squad playing all their games in a week as where this format allows them to pick the games to target.

 

[Happy Jack]

Brett Papworth’s recent article had many very salient points about club rugby, many salient points have been made in Green and Gold about school rugby. I also (and continue to) question the leadership in Australian rugby. The decisions of the QRU and ARU, the focus, the management and allocation of resources continue to baffle me.

The Junior Gold Cup is a case in point. I would dearly love someone from within the QRU/ARU to explain a couple points…..

1. A number of teams in the comp have many players that have played every minute of every game. If any team has even one player in this position has the “development” opportunity for all boys been taken seriously?
2. There have been a number of statements about some boys not being up to it. Maybe right, maybe wrong – if this is the case why do they get picked? To fill the 28 person squad at $960 a player? Who will take responsibility?
3. And on selections what about team balance? A classic example - a Brisbane team has four halfbacks in their squad, one of which turned up weeks after the first training session – who made the decision to have four halfbacks in a squad? Who will take responsibility?
4. The Junior Gold Cup is (so I am told) about a pathway for junior players. If coaches continue to play the same players, and have other players consistently NOT playing, one could argue the priority has to be about winning. Is this competition a pathway for kids, or a pathway for coaches? Who will take responsibility?

We have probably all been around long enough to know that there is nepotism in junior sport (not just rugby), always has been and always will be. I would argue that with more transparency, real leadership and accountability for actions, we (in rugby) could build a better environment for more people (including our kids) to have a genuine love of our game, irrespective of what level they achieve and not be disillusioned with what is supposed to be one of the genuine pathways for the game we all love.

Who will take responsibility?

 

[Garry Owens]

@ Christian Cullen

You've just ( perhaps unwittingly ) referenced the juxtaposition of this "event"

Development Pathway or Elite / Competitive Rep ?

Certainly judging by the attitude of many competitive Mums and Dads its a case of a two bob each way bet ( which is all they have left after they've shelled out to participate ) BUT......if everyone is really honest the initial motivation is about recognition and progression , so therefore , its Competitive /Rep beyond all the flowery bullshit

So if it is that .....let the pigeons loose and call a spade a shovel

For and Against and no PC bullshit to hide behind because it suits the positioning of where one may be on the rub

 

[Animal]

GO


Normally I would agree with points for & against system in a Rep scenario where winning means everything but I understand the reason for it not in JGC format…

Enables more players to be played & rotated.

If it came down to PF & PA you would find teams always be starting their strongest team & reserves would barely hit the field & with squads of 28 you would find 10 players complaining about time instead of 1 or 2.

Teams like WA would be unfairly represented with a 35 man squad playing all their games in a week as where this format allows them to pick the games to target.

@Christian Cullen, not sure where you get your stats from but WA only have 25 players in their touring squad and not 35.

 

[Christian Cullen]

looking at what happened in previous years & haven't been able to see for myself so far this year but point I'm trying to get at is...

It would be hard for WA to Start every game with there best players to make sure they, not only win but every point counts As with the NQLD 3 Games in the week.

I never Said I agree with the call, I said I understand. I'm on the fence with this one but it is the rule they set out.

2.5 Determining Pool Positions
In the event that two (2) teams are equal in their pool at the end of the pool match series, their positions will be determined using the following ordered protocol: -
(i) The winner of their head to head match in that pool;
(ii) The team that scored the greater number of tries in that match;
(iii) The team with the greater differential of “for” points compared to “against” points in all of their pool matches;
(iv) The team scoring the greater number of tries in the pool matches;
(v) If the above cannot distinguish between teams, the Competition Director or Nominee will conduct a “draw from a hat” to determine the Final

 

[Animal]

looking at what happened in previous years & haven't been able to see for myself so far this year but point I'm trying to get at is.

It would be hard for WA to Start every game with there best players to make sure they, not only win but every point counts As with the NQLD 3 Games in the week.

I never Said I agree with the call, I said I understand. I'm on the fence with this one but it is the rule they set out.

2.5 Determining Pool Positions
In the event that two (2) teams are equal in their pool at the end of the pool match series, their positions will be determined using the following ordered protocol: -
(i) The winner of their head to head match in that pool;
(ii) The team that scored the greater number of tries in that match;
(iii) The team with the greater differential of “for” points compared to “against” points in all of their pool matches;
(iv) The team scoring the greater number of tries in the pool matches;
(v) If the above cannot distinguish between teams, the Competition Director or Nominee will conduct a “draw from a hat” to determine the Final

There is also another reason as to why Points Diff should not be used as the initial decider (U17s). In previous years games were limited to teams in your own pool but this year you play 3 team from your pool and two from the other conference pool. You are therefore not playing the same teams and cannot use PD as the initial decider should teams be equal on points.

 

[Garry Owens]

No system is ever perfect but the U17 example , Animal , makes sense

 

[Boom Crash]

Hey Two Dogs,

Why the personal attack on Go. I like his commentary don't always agree but he rarely has a go at people.

I am a bit perplexed by your rant. On one hand you ask for GO to give Gold a fare go and on the other you take a swipe at Ipswich then try to claim you are unbiased.

Lets get the facts straight regarding the Ipswich V Gold Game.
Gold won full stop. The tenacity shown by Gold in defence was a credit to them. This tenacity repelled the bigger Ipswich side and created opportunities for Gold that they took and scored.

In the first half Ipswich dominated possession and territory. They were denied 2 x try's by dropping the ball over the line and one held up this was the refs call.

Ipswich gave Gold a bath in the set piece. I don't think Gold won one of their line outs. This was due to Ipswich being better and winning the ball in front of the Jumper. This is a big surprise considering the Gold Coach Keleva is a highly respected line out coach. Even he would admit he got done.
Ipswich had a bigger and better scrum they won multiple tight heads but late in the game despite the dominance were penalised. Tuff call but the ref was closer than any of us.

Ipswich struggled to move the ball to players unmarked on the flanks. This and a silly quick tap in front of the posts cost them dearly. However as I have stated, Gold's Tenacity, will and work ethic not only kept the scores close as it created the opportunities that they scored from. A great battle of David and Goliath or the Silvertails v the unwashed.
It was a good tense physical game enjoyed by all.

I think Gold were lucky to wi. Ipswich should have scored more tries with the amount of possession they had. If one of the early tries had been awarded or the penalty taken they would have. But Gold created their luck and thoroughly deserved the win.

As for your bitter and twisted snipe and Ipswich's rotation policy. They sub their entire front row 15 Minutes before 1/2 time and then 15 minutes after 1/2 time. It is totally legal and morale they have all been substitutions and not one of them has been a medical or injury substitute.
I would call that strategic management and good coaching. Try getting your small minded bitter head around that and accept that Gold were out coached and out thought. There are people in Ipswich that know something about Rugby!

 

[Christian Cullen]

@ Boom everything you said is spot on except the final paragraph

Gold were Not!!! out Coached or out thought, they won the game & took points on offer.


I'm done on this game unless I see a wrong comment & happy to point it out

 

[Animal]

WNSW are more than a good shot, after four games they sit on top of Pool A and have to play Illawarra in their final match who appear to have struggled. A bonus point win will assure them of top spot. If Melbourne score a bonus point win and WNSW win without getting a bonus point they will tie.

Can anyone enlighten me who would progress, is it for and against or the team with the most wins?


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WNSW only needs to win. If VIC has a bonus point win then they will be tied on points but because WNSW (24) defeated VIC (17) they would be declared pool winners.


2.5 Determining Pool Positions
In the event that two (2) teams are equal in their pool at the end of the pool match series, their positions will be determined using the following ordered protocol: -
(i) The winner of their head to head match in that pool;
(ii) The team that scored the greater number of tries in that match;
(iii) The team with the greater differential of “for” points compared to “against” points in all of their pool matches;
(iv) The team scoring the greater number of tries in the pool matches;
(v) If the above cannot distinguish between teams, the Competition Director or Nominee will conduct a “draw from a hat” to determine the Final

 

[Shaz Taputoa]

For mine I think the gold coaches ( whoever they are ) have done a helluva job
In a short space of time they have managed both development and competitive progression
There is a toughness to this Gold Team - and that's an attractive quality

Well said!!

 

[Come on ref]

My son plays in one of the Sydney sides
His first year.as a 13 turning 14 year old .
He hasn't had the game time he would of wanted ,results
Haven't gone his teams way
Long drives and Accommodation on top of the $500 final squad
Fee before that the $110 pre Christmas squad fee
I asked him today if this junior gold experience was worth
It.
He answered with Iv had a lot of fun with some new friend.
So to me. Worth every cent.

 

[Old Red]

Plenty of focus on pool C, Ippy, Gold and Blue, meanwhile over in pool D, a White team quietly are going about thier business.

 

[Garry Owens]

I say this with 100% sincerity,Ref - but its lads like your son and men like you why Rugby has a strong pulse

#Thumbs Up

 

[Garry Owens]

Well I don't think White are that quiet Old Red

It was my admiration for them that seemed to set the cat ( obviously an albino Cat ) amongst the Gold pigeons in the first place

Lot of love for the White

Maybe too much for some