ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[S'UP]

Clearly everyone has an opinion on whats required and what's not required to deliver success or deliver a player, playing to his full potential but when your schedule looks like this and it is actually someones training and playing schedule (mid year) we have problems.
School training 3 days a week
1 x School Game
Club training 1 day a week
1 x School Game
district Training 1 day a week
District trial game
NGS Training
Not a surprise he is one of the boys with strapping all over him.

 

[CatchnPass]

Clearly everyone has an opinion on whats required and what's not required to deliver success or deliver a player, playing to his full potential but when your schedule looks like this and it is actually someones training and playing schedule (mid year) we have problems.
School training 3 days a week
1 x School Game
Club training 1 day a week
1 x School Game
district Training 1 day a week
District trial game
NGS Training
Not a surprise he is one of the boys with strapping all over him.

And if he is also vaguely interested in the academic side of education in one of the August institutions seeking marketing glory, good luck explaining that to the MIC of Rugby. One can only wonder at the irony of some of this next generation, having sought but failed to attain sporting glory, being unable as a result to earn sufficient wedge to send their offspring to the alma mater. Boys are young and impressionable. Schools should know better.

 

[fireball]

Where does this idea come from that a boy can't train hard and study hard? I would have thought the discipline from one flows into the other. As for extra training it is a plain and simple fact that the fitter you are the more you can prevent and quickly recover from injury. It is all about choices and priorities work hard, train hard, study hard and still enjoy yourself and your mates. It is a proven and successful formula for life I'd have thought.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Where does this idea come from that a boy can't train hard and study hard? I would have thought the discipline from one flows into the other. As for extra training it is a plain and simple fact that the fitter you are the more you can prevent and quickly recover from injury. It is all about choices and priorities work hard, train hard, study hard and still enjoy yourself and your mates. It is a proven and successful formula for life I'd have thought.

there is such a thing as overtraining.
I would have thought Catchnpass's point was that these boys are being sold an illusion that dedication to rugby will get them a meal ticket: as a matter of statistics it will not.

 

[The Rock]

Where does this idea come from that a boy can't train hard and study hard? I would have thought the discipline from one flows into the other. As for extra training it is a plain and simple fact that the fitter you are the more you can prevent and quickly recover from injury. It is all about choices and priorities work hard, train hard, study hard and still enjoy yourself and your mates. It is a proven and successful formula for life I'd have thought.

Agree with you Fireball, I was with a NRL Holden Cup Team who did a 2 and half hour Sand hills Run yesterday, which included Running Backwards, filling Sacks with sand and running, Running with logs up the Sandhills as well, they stopped for quick Water Breaks and Continued. The after yesterday's Session the Club put on a Great Xmas Function for Them. These Boys Started training For Pre Season in early Nov. They get 3 weeks off at Xmas and then train Mon, Tues, Wed Off then Thurs, Frid and Sat will come in towards February. Then train for 1 hour half hours ( 5pm - 6.30 ) doing Fitness, Speed Tests and Field Work. Then from 6.30 pm - 7.30 doing weights. Some of these boys were still doing this at school, plus School Union and Study and I know these boys have all done well in their HSC But their NRL Clubs have already line up Jobs and Apprenticeships for them and have paid for University Courses as well, plus these Boys have a Pathway through their NRL Clubs and will be looked after. These Boys and the other NRL Boys are Super Fit and Big and not many get injuries, they are all approaching great Muscle Mass. The Outside Backs alone are Approaching the 100 kg mark including the boys who have just left school. Every player has a Specific Weight Program to follow Individually from Backs to Forwards. The Forwards are averaging 115 kgs. But can all run Quick Times. Some Boys can be Slightly Injury Prone and they need the extra Strapping for Support but the Fitter and Supple you are the less Injuries you will get.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What is the relevance of these observations?
This thread, by definition, concerns players who are under 17. Players who are not adults.

 

[The Rock]

What is the relevance of these observations?
This thread, by definition, concerns players who are under 17. Players who are not adults.

Talking about fitness regarding Injuries. Some of these boys are only 17 doing this..

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Talking about fitness regarding Injuries. Some of these boys are only 17 doing this..

But once you get under 17 is there not a fine line between doing too much training and causing injuries and doing enough to prevent injuries?

 

[The Rock]

But once you get under 17 is there not a fine line between doing too much training and causing injuries and doing enough to prevent injuries?

As long as you Mix the Training Up and yes you don't want to be Over training for 7 days, a couple of days off to let the the body relax But if your Serious about getting Results this is the Norm for Athletes. Not until your 17 I would then recommend the Protein Powders and not until your a Contracted Semi or Professional would you be thinking of taking Cretin because of the fulltime training and Professionalism involved, these do help for recovery, lactic acid, results etc. But that is not for these boys at the moment.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As long as you Mix the Training Up and yes you don't want to be Over training for 7 days, a couple of days off to let the the body relax But if your Serious about getting Results this is the Norm for Athletes. Not until your 17 I would then recommend the Protein Powders and not until your a Contracted Semi or Professional would you be thinking of taking Cretin because of the fulltime training and Professionalism involved, these do help for recovery, lactic acid, results etc. But that is not for these boys at the moment.

I assume you meant creatanine. if so:

"I feel it would be better for no one to use creatine even though it's shown to increase some strength and muscle mass," says Jim King, M.D., president of the American Academy of Family Physicians.
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/creatine-side-effects-what-it-what-it-does/page/2

As you'll see from the article the yardstick they use is under 18 but the test is "still growing": a lot of blokes are still growing into their 20's so there is no one size fits all solution. Reinforces my view that there is just a little too much emphasis at too early an age.
I can understand why the mungo team get involved they want the next Inglis or Watmough and are not really concerned how they find him.

 

[Boof]

NO.
A good reason no one has thought that is the lack of transfer of outstanding players from under 18 to senior rugby.
The lack of transfer is the reason the base needs to be as broad as possible for as long as possible: for whatever reason childhood success, even up to playing oz schools, is a very poor predictor of senior success on average.

In our zone and club we do not have major issues retaining talented kids thru to the senior ranks, it is actually more common for the boys who have played rep to stay in the game than not. Clubs have put academy programs in place to retain this young talent with boys doing the pre season work alongside first graders, we have them identified around 16s and try to get them involved in the senior ranks thru training as early as possible.

 

[The Rock]

I assume you meant creatanine. if so:


As you'll see from the article the yardstick they use is under 18 but the test is "still growing": a lot of blokes are still growing into their 20's so there is no one size fits all solution. Reinforces my view that there is just a little too much emphasis at too early an age.
I can understand why the mungo team get involved they want the next Inglis or Watmough and are not really concerned how they find him.

Rugby Union use this as well its not just the NRL ! But it does help Rugby and League Players in feeling stronger, enhancing recovery and reducing fatigue, it does however not work for everyone and Definately only for Professional, Serious Athletes.

 

[Boof]

What would be wrong with a Inglis or Watmough type player. But seriously I do not think junior sport is the place for a lot of these supplements that have been mentioned. I would hope that JGC coaches and support staff would also not support this practice at such a young age. Off the shelf protein shakes/drinks are part and parcel of a rigorous training schedule but it should stop there, particulary the creatatine, this is not something promoted in rugby to my knowledge. JGS had a nutrition component in previous years and I think this should form part of the life skills program in JGC to educate them on ways to aid recovery with such heavy training schedules. It is something I have raised at our centre and it is an important part of being able to maintain the training schedule.

 

[S'UP]

Talking about fitness regarding Injuries. Some of these boys are only 17 doing this..

How many of these boys actually go on to actually play in the NRL?

 

[The Rock]

How many of these boys actually go on to actually play in the NRL?

There is quite a lot, whether they play for that particular club that they are at or go to another club. If your Contacted and your a good player you have a Strong chance of playing NRL. Fast Talented Backs have a Stronger chance. Nearly all the Talented Players have Managers who would only take on players who are Talented and Successful and provide them with an income. Most of the Boys who get picked for Australian Schoolboys in League over the years have NRL Futures.

 

[CatchnPass]

there is such a thing as overtraining.
I would have thought Catchnpass's point was that these boys are being sold an illusion that dedication to rugby will get them a meal ticket: as a matter of statistics it will not.

Bang on IS. I'm not for a moment suggesting that study and hard training are incompatible. But a number of boys are not doing the study in favour of pursuing rugby glory and a number of schools are happy to aid and abet this so long as the 1sts are winning.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australia_Schoolboy_rugby_league_team_players

 

[Boof]

" these boys are being sold an illusion that dedication to rugby will get them a meal ticket: as a matter of statistics it will not."

What parent in their right mind would let their son believe this to be true, I think this can be where a lot of issues for some boys lie keep the bubble blowing adults at arms length. In reality meal tickets are far and few between and if you actually tell your boy this, if he has it in him, he will work even harder.

 

[I like to watch]

There is quite a lot, whether they play for that particular club that they are at or go to another club. If your Contacted and your a good player you have a Strong chance of playing NRL. Fast Talented Backs have a Stronger chance. Nearly all the Talented Players have Managers who would only take on players who are Talented and Successful and provide them with an income. Most of the Boys who get picked for Australian Schoolboys in League over the years have NRL Futures.

You are wrong IMO.
Go through the 20's team list at Manly in the last four years.
Many,many more failures than successes.
If you look at squad numbers ( not run on numbers),as there is no distinction in effort between stars and fringe players,it is a very low conversion rate.
Star Schoolboys routinely miss out on higher opportunities,regardless who their manager might be.
The average career length of an NRL player is 52 games.
Any kid too busy to concentrate on an ATAR,because of football commitments,has been cheated on by those that should be protecting his interests.

 

[The Rock]

You are wrong IMO.
Go through the 20's team list at Manly in the last four years.
Many,many more failures than successes.
If you look at squad numbers ( not run on numbers),as there is no distinction in effort between stars and fringe players,it is a very low conversion rate.
Star Schoolboys routinely miss out on higher opportunities,regardless who their manager might be.
The average career length of an NRL player is 52 games.
Any kid too busy to concentrate on an ATAR,because of football commitments,has been cheated on by those that should be protecting his interests.

Thats your Opinion. But have a look at the list of Australian Schoolboys since 1972 and there are a lot of familar names there who have gone onto NRL. Its a Shame but there is No Pathway at all in the Rugby compared to the NRL. What Rugby have for their Juniors is Crap. The New Program for the Gold Squads they want to bring in next year, Discriminates against kids who can't afford the $650 to be part of it, again only those who have the Funds get to play, but how many Great Players will be missed because their parents can't afforfd it ! They shouldn't have to pay a thing, the ARU should be paying for it. The ARU need to develop Rugby more through the Public System as well. In League Reps, the kids are well looked after,they get Free Trainings, they play games against other Rep Teams and they pay nothing and get all their gear for free. As far as Longevity in the game, what position you play on the field on any of the codes can make a difference, the backs usually last longer. Most Managers know what kids have a future otherwise they wouldn't take them on, especially the Top Leading NRL Managers of the Country. Its not about Winning in the 20s for any NRL Side as its still a Development for these kids, but the clubs Recruitment Manager and Coaches know what kids they want and will go through to NRL. These Recruitment Guys have been doing the job for a long time, they know. NRL Clubs give these kids every chance, they spend $$$$ Develop Them and see how they go, if they don't achieve in results or they are not showing they are Dedicated to the job ahead, then they get Cut and quite a few of these kids go and play Park Union or League.​