ARU forms new Australian Super Club and Pacific Nations rugby tournament

[TOCC]

Force misses out as ARU forms secret comp

The Western Force was kept in the dark and has been left out of a new competition that will feature three Australian Super clubs and three Pacific Nation teams.

The move has angered Force management who are pushing for a national competition for their fringe and rookie players.

Games between Waratahs, Reds and Brumbies sides and teams from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga will be played next season.

But Geoff Stooke, chairman of Force umbrella body RugbyWA, said they were not told about the competition until it was raised at a Super Rugby Commission meeting.

“The make up of the competition was decided without consultation. There was never any dialogue. We were completely in the dark,” he said.

“It was basically: ‘that’s the way it is boys. That’s the make up.’

“There cannot be a master-servant relationship between the ARU and Super teams. We have to work together for the good of Australian rugby.”

He said the Force would have been happy to relocate a team to Sydney.

An ARU spokesman confirmed the competition structure had gone before the Super Rugby Commission earlier this year. He said the Force and Melbourne Rebels could be included at a later date.

A Rebels spokesman said he knew nothing about the competition.

The ARC third tier competition was scrapped after one season in 2007 after making a big loss and Stooke acknowledged the game is under financial pressure.

But ARU figures show a huge chasm in their funding of states.

NSW gets $3,226,000 and Queensland $2,047,000 for community and premier rugby while Rugby WA receives just $200,000 for community rugby. Victoria receives $475,000 and even South Australia and the Northern Territory receive more than WA with $225,000 each.

“Clearly the environment within Australian rugby is Sydney-centric,” Stooke said.

“The amounts of money for NSW and Queensland would be better used on a genuine third tier competition.

“There is a financial model for the third tier that can work. With five Super teams there is an opportunity for a six team competition with two teams from NSW.”

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/union/8357690/force-misses-out-as-aru-forms-secret-comp/

Obviously there are plenty of question hanging over this tournament, as i said on TWF the reason for the exclusion of the Rebels and Force could bepurely for the basis of starting the competition small and working up, also i wonder if this tournament would qualify for IRB funding under the IRB program of supporting the pacific nations.

 

[RugbyReg]

it'd be a cost factor for sure, excluding the 4s.

If they play arvo matches, they may even get away with not having to pay accommodation. They couldn't do that with the 4s playing.

Regardless, I like it.

 

[waratahjesus]

it doesnt actually say the competition was the ARUs idea. it may well have been the tahs, reds and brumbies proposing it, there isnt an awful lot of information in the article.

whatever it is, its good its being played for the pacific and super teams and hopefully the force and rebels can get involved at a later date.

that said. it was my understanding that one of the reasons the force got into super rugby ahead of melbourne was promises of being self sustainable and not needing aru assistance in funding etc. then they have jumped and complained since day one. Also they were asked to relocate the spirit to sydney or the gold coast to help with costs for the ARC and refused totally but now they would have but wernt asked. they want cake and a full meal without picking up the check, so they shouldnt complain when others get in first.

 

[en_force_er]

it's probably just standard preseason academy fixtures with the pacific nation teams added in and with a proper tournament structure.

as a victorian i would not be annoyed unless there was no long term plan to expand into perth and melbourne, surely with proper sponsorships and if they stay in $50 over night motels instead of ritzy hotels the cost could be neutralish.

 

[en_force_er]

as an additional point, with all the many many islanders in melbourne you'd get probably more interest from their side then you would in sydney or brisbane and certainly more than in perth.

but i doubt such a comp would be geared toward spectators anyway.

 

[TOCC]

as an additional point, with all the many many islanders in melbourne you'd get probably more interest from their side then you would in sydney or brisbane and certainly more than in perth.

but i doubt such a comp would be geared toward spectators anyway.

um.... you dont think islanders live in Brisbane or Sydney??

 

[en_force_er]

um.... you dont think islanders live in Brisbane or Sydney??

i said probably more interest then sydney or brisbane and certainly more than perth. so no, i don't think islanders don't like in brisbane or sydney and no did not insinuate that.

i looked for stats but couldn't find them and the probably was very much a get out clause in case I am wrong.

i'd say victoria probably has the most samoans, they however certainly do not have the most maoris and i have no idea about fijians or togans.

 

[BrumbiesPolynesian]

I hear this is part of the Island Nations World Cup build up, playing against the Island Nation A teams (Island Based players) vs the Acadmey sides for each Super Franchise...dont think it will be a competiton in the future...I have always said the ARU need to adopt a similar competition to the NPC.....

 

[Red Rooster]

Melbourne is playing against Fiji and Tonga x 2 in the preseason - WA has the only gripe - welcome to the tyranny of distance (too expensive to fly teams there, unless the Force want to pay) Maybe they should divert some of their reported 3rd party money to participate in the comp - if it exists

 

[Nusadan]

Suggest Force to play Asian teams...Air Asia has real cheap airfares from Perth to Asia with Malaysia as the main hub...that might increase Force's exposure Asian wise and get additional sponsorship dollars...

 

[Spectator101]

Tonga A has matches against Brumbies and Rebels late Jan

 

[ChargerWA]

that said. it was my understanding that one of the reasons the force got into super rugby ahead of melbourne was promises of being self sustainable and not needing aru assistance in funding etc. then they have jumped and complained since day one. Also they were asked to relocate the spirit to sydney or the gold coast to help with costs for the ARC and refused totally but now they would have but wernt asked. they want cake and a full meal without picking up the check, so they shouldnt complain when others get in first.

Irony overload....systems shutting down......

 

[farva]

that said. it was my understanding that one of the reasons the force got into super rugby ahead of melbourne was promises of being self sustainable and not needing aru assistance in funding etc. then they have jumped and complained since day one. Also they were asked to relocate the spirit to sydney or the gold coast to help with costs for the ARC and refused totally but now they would have but wernt asked. they want cake and a full meal without picking up the check, so they shouldnt complain when others get in first.

You are taking the piss right?
How would a team from Perth located in Sydney help perth rugby (at the cost to Rugby WA?)
And last time I checked, RugbyWA is self sustainable. And they get far less from the ARU than the other states (not complaining about this, there are more players in NSW than WA). But they still run a successful franchise.

And if this is supposed to be a provincial comp, leaving out two of the developing unions (WA and Vic) is a terrible move. It will slow these unions development. If it is a money issue, then why are we inviting 3 PI teams?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

IRB development money behind this move?

 

[waratahjesus]

You are taking the piss right?
How would a team from Perth located in Sydney help perth rugby (at the cost to Rugby WA?)
And last time I checked, RugbyWA is self sustainable. And they get far less from the ARU than the other states (not complaining about this, there are more players in NSW than WA). But they still run a successful franchise.

And if this is supposed to be a provincial comp, leaving out two of the developing unions (WA and Vic) is a terrible move. It will slow these unions development. If it is a money issue, then why are we inviting 3 PI teams?

were not inviting 3 PI teams, thats just it, they already have there own comp and were joining it from what ive heard. Also it wasnt an ARU idea from my understanding but a negotiation from the three aussie franchises involved.

a relocated perth team would help develop perth players for less money. if there players lived and played in sydney it would cut travel and hire expenses etc as they would be able to use the same facilities as another team and maybe even play double headers cutting ground hire as well. having a couple of hundred fans in perth being able to watch doesnt make money anyway.

im not taking the piss, my understanding when perth was included ahead of melbourne as i mentioned above, and i know this as i have a good friend who was involved in the melbourne bid at the time was that perth made promises about its own finances and ability to work without the need of the funding that was being proposed to melbourne. Now a few years on that funding is probably dried up or from dodgy sponsors or whatever. Perth want the ARU to provide parity. The financial kickbacks from rugby in perth do very little to fill coffers at ARU level.

if rugby WA was self sustainable it wouldnt need the ARU, so it can hand back the grant it gets (the same as every other super side) for competing in the competition in the first place. The amount of players they have and supporter base is microscopic compared to QLD and NSW and when looked at by whats available as a tv audience in melbourne is again to small to really offer parity to at the costs required to include the other side of the country. this isnt a go, its cold reality of an organisation that isnt exactly rolling in cash and is doing its best to catch up.

 

[ChargerWA]

were not inviting 3 PI teams, thats just it, they already have there own comp and were joining it from what ive heard. Also it wasnt an ARU idea from my understanding but a negotiation from the three aussie franchises involved.

a relocated perth team would help develop perth players for less money. if there players lived and played in sydney it would cut travel and hire expenses etc as they would be able to use the same facilities as another team and maybe even play double headers cutting ground hire as well. having a couple of hundred fans in perth being able to watch doesnt make money anyway.

im not taking the piss, my understanding when perth was included ahead of melbourne as i mentioned above, and i know this as i have a good friend who was involved in the melbourne bid at the time was that perth made promises about its own finances and ability to work without the need of the funding that was being proposed to melbourne. Now a few years on that funding is probably dried up or from dodgy sponsors or whatever. Perth want the ARU to provide parity. The financial kickbacks from rugby in perth do very little to fill coffers at ARU level.

if rugby WA was self sustainable it wouldnt need the ARU, so it can hand back the grant it gets (the same as every other super side) for competing in the competition in the first place. The amount of players they have and supporter base is microscopic compared to QLD and NSW and when looked at by whats available as a tv audience in melbourne is again to small to really offer parity to at the costs required to include the other side of the country. this isnt a go, its cold reality of an organisation that isnt exactly rolling in cash and is doing its best to catch up.

The Western Force has the largest number of members of any of the Super teams and has the average highest number of attendees to their matches than any othe team based on 2009 figures, despite having half the population of Queensland, 2/5th the population of Victoria and 1/3rd the population of NSW.

It just seems the traditional rugby states are looking after their own. If any super team can be considered self sufficent, it is the Force. To exclude us due to cost is short sighted and runs the risk of West Australians becoming dissolutioned with rugby management and drifting away, despite the fact rugby in WA on a per capita basis is 3 time more popular than it is NSW.

 

[fatprop]

Logistics and costs would be the issue

 

[farva]

WJ, I am not privvy to the information regarding having a team relocate to NSW for the ARC, or being completely self sufficient as part of the WF bid, but the ARC team relocating to NSW really negates a lot of the benefit that the comp would have added to WA rugby. The main purpose of the team is to build interest in WA at a grass roots level, and having a team who never plays in Perth makes it very difficult to build interest.

Yes, WA has miniscule playing numbers compared to NSW and QLD as you say, but the playing numbers are now comparable to Canberra, and the TV audience Perth can supply blows away Canberra. Plus, the state has a population of over 2 million. That is a huge market to grow in, and with the AFL teams not performing well, now is a great time to try and promote rugby in WA.

But if it is correct as you say, and that this comp was organised by the 3 super provinces and the 3 PI teams, then fair enough. But I hope that no additional ARU funding (beyond waht is given normally) is provided to the comp if WA and Vic are to be ignored.

 

[stoff]

I am finding the state based responses interesting here:
Victorians - not phased about being left out. We finally have our Super Rugby franchise.
Western Australians - we want our rightful place in the comp. We've been around a while now and we want our fair share.

I think the Vic position will move this way once we are established in Super Rugby, and there will be two teams wanting a part of this. (Although rightly the Rebels should get first crack because the Force stole our franchise back in 2004. Don't think we've forgotten! :fishing )

Realistically if this is the first stage of a new third tier comp starting small seems the way to go. If its a one off as BrumbiesPolynesian mentioned, then no real long term loss to the Force.

 

[TOCC]

But I hope that no additional ARU funding (beyond waht is given normally) is provided to the comp if WA and Vic are to be ignored.

Hmm cut off the nose to spite the face, this reminds me of mummy and daddy buying one of there kids a toy and the other jumping up and down demanding one as well.. If indeed this comp has the chance to grow into a national comp, it would be silly, actually it would be incredibly stupid to say no funding for the competition until all the states and territories are included.. That's even if there is ARU funding for the comp, it all depends on what arrangements have been made with the pacific nations and the IRB.