ARU Considering Player Transfer Window
- Thread starter RedsHappy
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The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
It is a good idea, but I do get the feeling that it is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. For this season at least.
Longer term though, I think that is the most sensible option.
Longer term though, I think that is the most sensible option.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Agree TBH, this year's bolted. And we know - just for example - that the Rebels have actively chased Liam G and Ben T in recent times. All of this for all RUs creates uncertainty and instability and further a major distraction for coaches as well during the playing season. It's additionally implicitly unfair in-season on the 'feeder' RUs that are the recipients of the most attempts at poaching.
The best 'ad' for fixing it in all RUs' interests is Genia's pre-decision-to-stay and post-decision-to-stay playing attitude and skills. Nearly night and day?
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
As a fan I like it, but from a players point of view you should be able to secure your future early so you can start to arrange things for moving and so your partner can try to find work etc
Craig Riddington
Sydney Middleton (9)
I agree, it seems like a good move. If its done on a league basis or even Aus conference, I wouldn't have thought it would be open to a legal challenge as its not affecting player/franchise contract. It would be applying league rules as to when you negotiate on a new contract. Bosman ruling was completely different though as that was about free movement. It ruled that an out of contract player was allowed to join another club and no transfer fee was required. That already happens in Rugby...and european football has transfer windows. Policing it would be a different matter. Stopping a player agent talking to another franchise/club or rugby league club is another matter.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
The Bosman ruling also allows players to negotiate and sign a pre-contract with other teams in the final 6 months of their current contract. Signing these contacts is not confined to transfer or registration windows.
SuperGrover
Darby Loudon (17)
Seeing how the ARU and the Player's Union can't agree on a new CBA or a salary cap, I'd say there will be problems getting this proposal up.
L
Linebacker_41
Guest
Will JONs idea work in reality? NO!!!
Agents are only interested in getting their player a good position on a good salary at a good club/province and they will not abide by these rules.
What it may do is give the players an easy out when talking to the media. A typical answer to a contract question will be "sorry mate, but we will sort that out when the transfer window opens".
Then you can be guaranteed that on day 1 - 5 new signings are announced which miraculously occured in one day.
Agents are only interested in getting their player a good position on a good salary at a good club/province and they will not abide by these rules.
What it may do is give the players an easy out when talking to the media. A typical answer to a contract question will be "sorry mate, but we will sort that out when the transfer window opens".
Then you can be guaranteed that on day 1 - 5 new signings are announced which miraculously occured in one day.
Craig Riddington
Sydney Middleton (9)
...and how we love all the rumours!
It needs to be remembered that the NRL dumped this idea (the Anti-Tampering Rule) because it was a complete joke.
You weren't meant to be in contract negotiations until after a certain date and then as soon as that date arrived, all these deals were announced. Clearly players and player managers still discuss their new contracts at all times.
Unless the ARU is planning to have their own Gestapo like organisation to police it, it is completely unworkable. Trying to police it would also only create negative publicity for the game.
This would be a really stupid idea for the ARU to pursue.
You weren't meant to be in contract negotiations until after a certain date and then as soon as that date arrived, all these deals were announced. Clearly players and player managers still discuss their new contracts at all times.
Unless the ARU is planning to have their own Gestapo like organisation to police it, it is completely unworkable. Trying to police it would also only create negative publicity for the game.
This would be a really stupid idea for the ARU to pursue.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Really, you and some others here are perfectly confident that a control concept like a transfer window is a 'really stupid idea' and perhaps a 'complete joke'. Well, if it didn't work in league, it'd never work in rugby, right, no doubt about that (never mind how we use league analogies when it fits our line of argument and then castigate league as irrelevant or just plain dodgy when it doesn't).
Have you checked on other, bigger, global sporting codes perhaps, and how they have dealt with the problems of inter-team in-season transfers, before making such categoric assertions?
Just as one example of a working transfer window, would it surprise you to find that FIFA (not a minor code regulator) governs and polices a major Transfer Window regime for all international soccer associations, viz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window
This window was established to deal with precisely the types of issues (and others) that we have hit upon in the whole Genia transfer matter. And it's been established and enforced by FIFA etc for many years now.
It would just be appreciated if we could think carefully about issues, check what other codes are doing as precedents and consider why they have arisen, before making these outlandishly categoric conclusions as though we are all instant experts on a matter that has challenged, and been dealt with, by many global sporting codes.
The FIFA transfer window allows you to play for the new club the next day. It is actually more of a registration window because those are the only times when teams are allowed to register a new player to begin playing in their team.
It is a completely different where clubs own the contracts and have the right to sell the players to teams they see fit.
Players who are off contract can be contracted at any point for the next season. Arsenal (the team I follow in EPL) recently announced the signing of Lukas Podolski for next season. This wasn't during any transfer window but was fine because it had nothing to do with registering him to be immediately available to play in their team.
It is a much harder thing to control when players and their agents are looking after each individual contract rather than the clubs having ownership of them.
You are trying to compare apples with oranges. I brought up the NRL scenario because it seems to be the same as what the ARU is suggesting.
It is a completely different where clubs own the contracts and have the right to sell the players to teams they see fit.
Players who are off contract can be contracted at any point for the next season. Arsenal (the team I follow in EPL) recently announced the signing of Lukas Podolski for next season. This wasn't during any transfer window but was fine because it had nothing to do with registering him to be immediately available to play in their team.
It is a much harder thing to control when players and their agents are looking after each individual contract rather than the clubs having ownership of them.
You are trying to compare apples with oranges. I brought up the NRL scenario because it seems to be the same as what the ARU is suggesting.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Bh81, just have a look at the whole detail, it is more than that as covered by your rebuttal (which I don't accept is valid in the manner you state, but let's leave it there). (Btw, for accuracy please recall that players like Genia and such like are not 'off contract' at this time. Genia and Taps are absolutely on contract with the QRU at this time. They will be (or would have been in Genia's case) off contract with the QRU only at the end of this S15 season. Their player agents in these cases do not transcend live contracts these players have with their franchises, the player agents just go off trying to find them a better or new contract for later when these players' existing contracts lapse.)
The overarching point was no attempt to find and compare an exact orange with another one. Rather, my point was intended as generic in that code governing bodies can and do design viable, binding mechanisms to police the means and timings by which contracted players can be transferred (and, where applicable, registered) between competing clubs or associations. The principle is by no means unprecedented nor impossible. That is all.
The overarching point was no attempt to find and compare an exact orange with another one. Rather, my point was intended as generic in that code governing bodies can and do design viable, binding mechanisms to police the means and timings by which contracted players can be transferred (and, where applicable, registered) between competing clubs or associations. The principle is by no means unprecedented nor impossible. That is all.
In any profession, if I am employed on a fixed contract, I have the right to look for a new contract to start after my current contract ends. I don't have to wait until my current contract ends before I can start looking. I don't see why professional sportspeople should be any different. Genia and Tapuai weren't looking to sign a contract that breached their current contract.
Like anyone, professional sportspeople need to look after their livelihood and want certainty in what they will be doing. When you consider that teams like the Reds are unlikely to be able to keep everyone, players will be anxious to make sure they are looked after.
You also need to consider that overseas options might not line up with the end of the Super Rugby season so if people are going to sign a northern hemisphere contract they will almost certainly need to do it before the end of the Super Rugby season.
I just don't see how you can realistically stop players and their agents from negotiating their future contracts at any time. The amount of electronic monitoring you would need to do would be incredible, not to mention illegal.
Like anyone, professional sportspeople need to look after their livelihood and want certainty in what they will be doing. When you consider that teams like the Reds are unlikely to be able to keep everyone, players will be anxious to make sure they are looked after.
You also need to consider that overseas options might not line up with the end of the Super Rugby season so if people are going to sign a northern hemisphere contract they will almost certainly need to do it before the end of the Super Rugby season.
I just don't see how you can realistically stop players and their agents from negotiating their future contracts at any time. The amount of electronic monitoring you would need to do would be incredible, not to mention illegal.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I dont think these are the sort of windows i would be inviting the bosses at the ARU to consider
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
as long as they make it a television event hosted by Kearns and Marto, maybe get each coach there at a table with a few fans of the team behind, Tahman can represent the Tahs. Have each uncontracted player in the audience and call them up one by one to announce there decision. it would be great, the looks of joy on fans faces, the rivalries it would create, the shock and of course the disappointment on the faces of those left on the floor as the squads fill up before there finally led onto a bus with blacked out windows and EPS written in black text on the side.
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