Argentina v Australia II @ 5.10am 14/08

[qwerty51]

The biggest thing we gain with Hodge at 10 in my view is that we play a smarter game where we get back to the fundamentals of territory and trying to win the gain line in the middle of the field.

Against England we played out the back far too much and spread the ball wide too often when there wasn't really any opportunity. You may make some decent metres quite often but you also create a greater risk of getting isolated or getting the centre smashed with the ball behind the gainline but a defender rushing up.

I'm not advocating for playing 10 man rugby but we need to be more judicious about when we use the ball and need to get front foot ball more often so we have opportunities to attack effectively.

Realistically the way we play shouldn't change regardless of who is at 10. International teams are too good to think that just because we have more of a playmaking 10 we can dismantle the opposition defence at will.

Hodge would probably be the Springboks' starting 10 over Pollard.

 

[Slim 293]

Stopgap? Maybe, but also the best performing that we have seen, right now. I want to see the best 15, the best 23 out there. I personally don't see Lolesio as fully ready right now. Which doesn't mean he hasn't performed when we had no choice. Right now though, I think we do have a choice.

I don't agree with the thinking that suggests we can use tests as some form of warm up for the next RWC. We aren't that good and we really need to set up wins against teams like the Argies in the hope that it provides momentum as we approach NZ and the Boks. I just don't see Lolo as the best choice. Argie very definitely had a plan that was charging the 10 channel. Hodge doesn't worry me at all in that scenario. I'd be having kittens watching Lolo.

Isn't that what England did in the first test and Lolesio put in a top defensive effort?

After the English series I'm not really concerned about Lolesio at flyhalf, as I am about consistency from our forwards and the team's general ball handling...

 

[Tomikin]

The biggest thing we gain with Hodge at 10 in my view is that we play a smarter game where we get back to the fundamentals of territory and trying to win the gain line in the middle of the field.

Against England we played out the back far too much and spread the ball wide too often when there wasn't really any opportunity. You may make some decent metres quite often but you also create a greater risk of getting isolated or getting the centre smashed with the ball behind the gainline but a defender rushing up.

I'm not advocating for playing 10 man rugby but we need to be more judicious about when we use the ball and need to get front foot ball more often so we have opportunities to attack effectively.

Realistically the way we play shouldn't change regardless of who is at 10. International teams are too good to think that just because we have more of a playmaking 10 we can dismantle the opposition defence at will.

I hadn't thought about this, but that's something that has changed between the games, is we used Valetini as a midfield hitup a lot more of phase play than consistently going out the back, which I superficially noticed vs England game 3. We can still go out the back, but we shouldnt be doing it nearly every play... forwards running hard up the middle works, and it also makes our play a little less predictable.

I dont think this was because Hodge was at 10, I think it was a change in game plan. my picks JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 Hodge at 23 6/2 bench.

 

[dru]

Isn't that what England did in the first test and Lolesio put in a top defensive effort?

After the English series I'm not really concerned about Lolesio at flyhalf, as I am about consistency from our forwards and the team's general ball handling...

Slim, Lolo was good in the England series, thrown in unexpectedly when we didn't really have another choice. I went back to the stats to reacquaint myself on Lol's D. Here are the results:
Game #1: 11 tackles 2 missed tackles - pretty good
Game #2: nil tackles 2 missed tackles
Game #3: 1 tackle 1 missed tackle

[Edit: for what it's worth the bloke who seemed to me to have to really stand up in D, was White. A different target than where the Pumas are.]

I wouldn't usually choose a 10 using D as the first indicator, but I'd suggest that perhaps Lolo was good, but a claim he is ready for an intended charge target by the Argies, based on that performance, is possibly a tad overblown.

I'm still having kittens if that strategy by Cheika is continued against Lolo.

He has been good, but right now I'm comfortable saying I'd have him on the bench. We do have other options here against the Pumas.

 

[qwerty51]

Christy Doran reporting Paisami is now out from a head knock.
Says Foketi is the most likely replacement. Also mentions Simone is off to France after this tour (and will be on the bench this week). Pone makes the bench over Robertson too.

 

[Derpus]

Christy Doran reporting Paisami is now out from a head knock.
Says Foketi is the most likely replacement. Also mentions Simone is off to France after this tour (and will be on the bench this week). Pone makes the bench over Robertson too.

The number of injuries this season has been truly ludicrous.

 

[Dan54]

The number of injuries this season has been truly ludicrous.

Who's cat has Rennie kicked? By christ the Wallabies can't take a trick with injuries as you say Derpus.
I genuinely think it should be sending some warning lights to all concerned with our game.

 

[dru]

Christy Doran reporting Paisami is now out from a head knock.
Says Foketi is the most likely replacement. Also mentions Simone is off to France after this tour (and will be on the bench this week). Pone makes the bench over Robertson too.

Cripes.

 

[Braveheart81]

The number of injuries this season has been truly ludicrous.

Who's cat has Rennie kicked?

There's been a number of comments about the physicality of training and some criticism towards the S&C coach Dean Benton and Dave Rennie for it being a bit over the top.

Maybe we'll get some long term payoff from it but at this point it seems like they've miscalculated badly.

We shouldn't be getting so many training injuries.

 

[Dctarget]

There's been a number of comments about the physicality of training and some criticism towards the S&C coach Dean Benton and Dave Rennie for it being a bit over the top.

Maybe we'll get some long term payoff from it but at this point it seems like they've miscalculated badly.

We shouldn't be getting so many training injuries.

Criticism from players or just fans connecting the dots?

 

[Dctarget]

At least our depth gets tested and our powder kept dry. Essentially doing what France did with us last year by using a B team.

 

[Braveheart81]

Criticism from players or just fans connecting the dots?

I think it was in the Christy Doran article about Michael Hooper withdrawing (yes, it's Christy Doran and Fox Sports but he is definitely well connected).

"Numerous sources, including at Rugby Australia, have also raised questions about the strength and conditioning methods being used under Dean Benton.

Questions have arised after a number of players have suffered injuries at training in recent months.

There is a belief that the current group needs to be whipped into shape because they are not up to Test match standards."

I got the quote from elsewhere. The mention of Dean Benton has been removed from the Fox Sports article now. It's definitely where it was originally though.

It now says:

"Numerous sources have also raised questions about the strength and conditioning methods being used.

Questions have arised after a number of players have suffered injuries at training in recent months.

There is a belief that the current group needs to be whipped into shape because they are not up to Test match standards."

 

[Dctarget]

I think it was in the Christy Doran article about Michael Hooper withdrawing (yes, it's Christy Doran and Fox Sports but he is definitely well connected).

"Numerous sources, including at Rugby Australia, have also raised questions about the strength and conditioning methods being used under Dean Benton.

Questions have arised after a number of players have suffered injuries at training in recent months.

There is a belief that the current group needs to be whipped into shape because they are not up to Test match standards."

I got the quote from elsewhere. The mention of Dean Benton has been removed from the Fox Sports article now. It's definitely where it was originally though.

It now says:

"Numerous sources have also raised questions about the strength and conditioning methods being used.

Questions have arised after a number of players have suffered injuries at training in recent months.

There is a belief that the current group needs to be whipped into shape because they are not up to Test match standards."

Well Porecki, Paisami, Ala'alatoa and Hooper are all from non S&C injuries

 

[Braveheart81]

Well Porecki, Paisami, Ala'alatoa and Hooper are all from non S&C injuries

Porecki and Paisami are contact injuries at training though?

Surely the S&C coach is involved in how much and what intensity the contact sessions are. I'd be surprised if his job was limited to fitness and gym sessions.

 

[LeCheese]

Porecki and Paisami are contact injuries at training though?

Surely the S&C coach is involved in how much and what intensity the contact sessions are. I'd be surprised if his job was limited to fitness and gym sessions.

For all we know Paisami could’ve been behind a tackle bag during a light contact drill. Without knowing exactly what happened, we shouldn’t point fingers. Head knocks in particular can just be one of those freak things.

As with the Reds this season, no doubt there will (or could already) be a review into S&C and training program, if it’s deemed that there have been more injuries than usual, and not just as a result of bad luck.

 

[Braveheart81]

For all we know Paisami could’ve been behind a tackle bag during a light contact drill. Without knowing exactly what happened, we shouldn’t point fingers. Head knocks in particular can just be one of those freak things.

Sure, but a finger was pointed and during the next week we've got another player out with an injury from training.

 

[qwerty51]

Porecki and Paisami are contact injuries at training though?

Surely the S&C coach is involved in how much and what intensity the contact sessions are. I'd be surprised if his job was limited to fitness and gym sessions.

Not sure the S&C would have much to do with contact sessions but they would run the prep, ie. warm-up and stretching etc.

It does sound like too many contact sessions during the week if players are getting injured at training.

 

[Braveheart81]

Not sure the S&C would have much to do with contact sessions but they would run the prep, ie. warm-up and stretching etc.

It does sound like too many contact sessions during the week if players are getting injured at training.

I'm not saying they run those sessions but surely they're involved in the planning in terms of the length of each session, frequency and intensity.

If they're not it seems insane to me.

 

[Ignoto]

Wasn't there talk about all the soft tissue injuries being because of how much it rained down the Gold Coast ?

 

[qwerty51]

Wasn't there talk about all the soft tissue injuries being because of how much it rained down the Gold Coast ?

Yeah that would cause hamstring and calf injuries I presume but not head knocks.