Are we expecting too much from the Wallabies as a brand?

[grievous]

Should we be realistic,can we ever get the 84-86, 99-04 eras back?
Too many other codes here competing for players
Lack of a consistant world class goalkicker
Constant psychological doubt and weakness within the set up
Too many soft private school types automatically kept on the national conveyor belt to national honours
Inability of a Wallaby team to dominate in the forwards for more than only periods of games.

Are there too many factors against a period of dominance? Do we need to lower expectations, especially as losses keep coming like they have against Samoa and Scotland and Wales every 2 years, maybe reguarly from Argentina from next year
BTW a WC win would down just fine

 

[Lee Enfield]

I think it is reasonable to expect that our national team to win more often than not and for every player to play their heart out each time they pull on the wallaby jersey. I for one will never be happy with the Wallabies being "Competitive" I want to see them be as formidable as the All Blacks year in year out.

 

[H...]

Didn't the latter of those two Golden eras start in 1998 (specifically the test in Melbourne when Burke scored all the points) and finish a little earlier than 2004?

 

[Groucho]

I think there are two issues here. The Wallabies' performance as a brand derives from their success in the market. The Wallabies' success as a team derives from their success on the field. Arguably you can't have one without the other. Without success in the market, we will hemorrhage players. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. And without success on the field, success in the market is impossible.

Having said all that, success on the field obviously comes first. We have a gifted generation of young players that have 20 tests more experience than their young competitors in other countries. I foresee a possible period of considerable success, and even All Black style dominance.

But achieving it won't depend on our backs. We already know they're good. It will depend on our forwards.

 

[qwerty51]

I often think about this, with have so little talent available. In most cases the best talent goes to AFL and NRL and we're left with those who want to play rugby. In SA and NZ the best athletes go to rugby, imagine if the best athletes in this country went to Union first. I think we'd dominate every other nation personally.

 

[disco]

No definitely not we have some of the finest players in world rugby, regardless of what happened on Sunday we're still a very good chance of winning the Tri-nations.

I think we are a litle soft as supporters compared to other codes we probably accept medicore performances far to easily.

I don't know why this is but my mates & I were talking about how the Reds fans seemed more aggresive than the Wallabies fans at the grand final the other week which is weird as I had always assumed it would just be the same supporters.

I really heard some abuse being hurled at the Crusaders & their fans that night which was really out of the ordinary for Aussie Rugby fans.

 

[Groucho]

No definitely not we have some of the finest players in world rugby, regardless of what happened on Sunday we're still a very good chance of winning the Tri-nations.

I think we are a litle soft as supporters compared to other codes we probably accept medicore performances far to easily.

I don't know why this is but my mates & I were talking about how the Reds fans seemed more aggresive than the Wallabies fans at the grand final the other week which is weird as I had always assumed it would just be the same supporters.

I really heard some abuse being hurled at the Crusaders & their fans that night which was really out of the ordinary for Aussie Rugby fans.

And yet when fans refuse to accept poor performances, like the Waratahs fans did this year, they are widely pilloried.

Being 'hard' must mean being hard on your own players, not on opposition players. Booing visiting teams is as soft as.

 

[ChargerWA]

It's the old chicken and egg scenario.

The AB fans expect their team to win every time they run out, and they do more often than any other team. Which one came first?

 

[antipodean]

I often think about this, with have so little talent available. In most cases the best talent goes to AFL and NRL and we're left with those who want to play rugby. In SA and NZ the best athletes go to rugby, imagine if the best athletes in this country went to Union first. I think we'd dominate every other nation personally.

If it was just a numbers game, England wouldn't lose.

It's the old chicken and egg scenario.

The AB fans expect their team to win every time they run out, and they do more often than any other team. Which one came first?

The Originals.

 

[grievous]

I think there are two issues here. The Wallabies' performance as a brand derives from their success in the market. The Wallabies' success as a team derives from their success on the field. Arguably you can't have one without the other. Without success in the market, we will hemorrhage players. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. And without success on the field, success in the market is impossible.

Having said all that, success on the field obviously comes first. We have a gifted generation of young players that have 20 tests more experience than their young competitors in other countries. I foresee a possible period of considerable success, and even All Black style dominance.

But achieving it won't depend on our backs. We already know they're good. It will depend on our forwards.

Even more difficult criteria then and this leads to another question, does our own administration hold back our success/potential?
Lack of push for FTA
More and more skimping on junior game
Year in and out political bickering that AFL just dont have, loigue manage to work through and soccer ride over in pursuit of the national game
Lack of will to change perceptions its just a upper class sport, it clearly isnt, clings too hard to these roots in instances but the ignorant out there need educating as the sport is maligned like no other I know on the Austalian sporting landscape.

 

[disco]

And yet when fans refuse to accept poor performances, like the Waratahs fans did this year, they are widely pilloried.

Waratahs fans have every right to be pissed off as their team can play some of the most outstanding rugby ever seen for about 20 minutes & then play some of the most boring shit ever seen for the next 60 minutes. That fan forum should have been directed at Hickey & the coaching staff.

Being 'hard' must mean being hard on your own players, not on opposition players. Booing visiting teams is as soft as.

I don't know what you're getting at with this comment but I never meant the Reds fans were hard for abusing the opposition that sought of stuff pisses me off & ruins going to a live game.

I was just pointing out that it was weird as I always assumed a Reds fan would also be the same fans dressed in Gold later on.

My point on Wallabies fans being soft is that we don't demand players & coaching staff to be axed like fans from other codes.

Can you imagine if Deans was coach of the AB's & only had a 33% winning record in the tri-nations?

 

[Groucho]

I don't know what you're getting at with this comment but I never meant the Reds fans were hard for abusing the opposition that sought of stuff pisses me off & ruins going to a live game.

I meant the same, disco. It struck me as slightly unusual for a Suncorp crowd.

 

[Bon]

Your absolutely right there Disco. A 33% record in the Tri Nations would leave any All Black coach out of a job.Nine consecutive losses to either Australia,SA or England[oh no not the poms, ever!] would have the coach gone before breakfast.

 

[No4918]

Number 2 in the world and we are winning around 55%. Personally i'd expect the number 2 side in any comp to be winning a fair bit more than 55% of the time.

How are the rankings worked out? Are wins against higher ranked sides given a higher weighting? Will a loss against Samoa hurt our ranking more than a loss to the AB?

 

[Ignoto]

Number 2 in the world and we are winning around 55%. Personally i'd expect the number 2 side in any comp to be winning a fair bit more than 55% of the time.

We dropped to number three yesterday.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Number 2 in the world and we are winning around 55%. Personally i'd expect the number 2 side in any comp to be winning a fair bit more than 55% of the time.

How are the rankings worked out? Are wins against higher ranked sides given a higher weighting? Will a loss against Samoa hurt our ranking more than a loss to the AB?

http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html

 

[120kg Winger]

Even more difficult criteria then and this leads to another question, does our own administration hold back our success/potential?
Lack of push for FTA
More and more skimping on junior game
Year in and out political bickering that AFL just dont have, loigue manage to work through and soccer ride over in pursuit of the national game
Lack of will to change perceptions its just a upper class sport, it clearly isnt, clings too hard to these roots in instances but the ignorant out there need educating as the sport is maligned like no other I know on the Austalian sporting landscape.

Nailed it Grievous. The administration of Rugby in Australia is appalling. There are about 5 people that actually work for the benefit of the game, the rest just look for the free tickets to S15 and Test matches. While there's been many a disagreement as to how the game could be improved in this country on these very pages, not one of these ideas is worse than they way our current administrators ride the game into the ground.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

All we need is 20 world class players. It isn't about quantity, it is about quality of coaching at the grassroots. Other countries have much more players than Australia, but our system seems to produce more top quality rugby players, and i'm sure anyone involved with junior rugby will agree there is still massive room for improvement.

 

[Lee Enfield]

The lack of Free to Air coverage of the Super 15 and lack of a national competition in my opinion, is what is hurting the growth of Rugby in this country.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I've said it elsewhere but I'd love the ABC or SBS to have control over broadcasting Rugby games, in addition to Foxtel but I dont know how realistic that is.