April Wallaby 30 Man Squad

[Scoey]

Scoey, I'm really not sure how anyone could expect a big player turnover and lots of new talent to play the Lions. It probably wouldn't ever be on the cards, but particularly not with Deans coaching for his job.

Absolutely Richo. Expect is too strong a word. More like hope. And certainly not a big turnover either, just some fresh faces. Not criticising it, it just looks so much like last years mob that was so uninspiring. Ah it's a long way to go yet but!

 

[Slim 293]

SCOTT Higginbotham has re-emerged as the frontrunner for the Wallabies' No 6 jersey for the British and Irish Lions series this winter.​

​

Really? Based on.........?​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...gold-no-6-jersey/story-e6frg7o6-1226619460783

 

[jimmydubs]

Eddie says: As for Smith, the question is not whether my former Japanese club Suntory will release him to play against the Lions but whether the Wallabies want him.
Another week has gone by and no inquiry about Smith has been made - so the best flanker in Australia is also being ignored.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby-...-things-personal/story-fndptels-1226619522351
ARU and Deans still haven't even asked the question. Un-fucking-believable. Deans fucked up in the past with Smith, he now has a chance to get the best 7 in the world, possibly ever, back in his team and he.....

 

[Richo]

Absolutely Richo. Expect is too strong a word. More like hope. And certainly not a big turnover either, just some fresh faces. Not criticising it, it just looks so much like last years mob that was so uninspiring. Ah it's a long way to go yet but!

There's a fair few new faces in that squad though, and none of them are plodders. I don't think we could have expected that much better, to be honest. There was always going to be plenty of experience (for good and ill), but at least some of the dynamic and in-form players are in the frame.

 

[Scotty]

Not to fight Barbarian's battles for him, but the following would seem to be pretty clear:



"Form players have been rewarded" -- i.e. the guys who are in form and playing well right now have been selected. "Old hands have largely been picked" -- i.e. experienced players who might be injured or out of form but who have played well for the Wobs over a number of seasons have also been selected.

Old hands like Timani and McCabe who have proven themselves to be true wallaby greats and should be selected at all times?

 

[fatprop]

Old hands like Timani and McCabe who have proven themselves to be true wallaby greats and should be selected at all times?

They were always going to be in the squad if fit, this squad will be essentially the same as last year, there isn't time for experimentation, Deans will rely on the known

 

[Athilnaur]

If it is true no ARU approach has been made to allow Smith to be available for the Lions I am staggered. The NZRU seemed to have no difficulty deciding it needed to ask for SBW to stay on for some extra games last year. They are going to look very silly if this angle isn't explored.

I like the squad. As a Rebels man I'd have hoped to see Pyle or Jones in there over Simmons as I don't rate Simmons much at all, his last game was better but all I have seen from him since bled 1 2011 is a player more intent on fouling others than doing work. No doubt the Reds boys here will scream me down, but thats my impression!

However I am quibbling over 1 or 2 players of 30. Generally squad is good.

 

[Ruggo]

Maybe time for a little learning though. We are a bit richer in regards to experienced (by experienced I mean test exposed) players this year and should get a far better balanced side. That should exclude stop gap players like Tamani. We have hard nosed players with a far more complete skill set who can impose a physical presence on the game. Both Horwill and Douglas offer so much more than Tamani who is limited in what he offers.

I have no problem with McCabe. He should be there. 100% reliable but we need to work out how to best use him.

 

[jay-c]

i actually think simmons has shown more this year to deserve his spot than any other
personally id like to see one of 'emerging' locks in aus to establish themselves as a lineout general-
some are good here> but if one was to stand out like a matfield or becker i really think it can totally change how the opposition plays the game> we really need someone to dominate here and frankly we are not aiming high enough in my books

 

[Ruggo]

Eddie says: As for Smith, the question is not whether my former Japanese club Suntory will release him to play against the Lions but whether the Wallabies want him.
Another week has gone by and no inquiry about Smith has been made - so the best flanker in Australia is also being ignored.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby-...-things-personal/story-fndptels-1226619522351
ARU and Deans still haven't even asked the question. Un-fucking-believable. Deans fucked up in the past with Smith, he now has a chance to get the best 7 in the world, possibly ever, back in his team and he...

I don't know if this is Deans. Maybe it has come from higher up. Maybe Smith has been Pulverised.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Old hands like Timani and McCabe who have proven themselves to be true wallaby greats and should be selected at all times?

That's a valid point. Previous mediocrity shouldn't be a free ride to incumbency. I could handle somebody like JOC (James O'Connor) who has had a great history in Wallaby gold, being given a free ride in based on incumbency if he had not had a good season. But blokes like McCabe, Timani, David Dennis and TPN lately have had maybe the odd good game between mediocre ones yet deserve to be picked on incumbency? I don't believe it counts when they don't deserve to be the incumbent to begin with.

While we are on the topic of it, some of these average, or previously average players could be easily replaced with fresh performing talent without too much detrimental impact. McCabe? Tapuai already has test experience at 12. TPN? The bloke has been injured and looked like a plodder for a couple of seasons. Moore is easily ahead and somebody like James Hanson could be great off the bench. Timani? He's likely to be replaced by Horwill in the starting team anyway. Wouldn't it be better to bring in a new player to the squad to be brought up to speed and come in off the bench anyway? It's not like Timani is a proven pressure performer. Dennis? He has been proven to struggle in Wallaby gold anyway, would Mowen be a huge risk?

Even players like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who have probably earned incumbency have struggled to fire without being given a kick up the arse and pushed out to the wing from time to time. At a time when we have the worst win rate in modern Wallaby history why should we rely on most of our underperforming incumbents? If Deans has gone conservatively in fear of his job, why is he relying on those players that have failed him so many times in the past?

 

[fatprop]

If it is true no ARU approach has been made to allow Smith to be available for the Lions I am staggered. The NZRU seemed to have no difficulty deciding it needed to ask for SBW to stay on for some extra games last year. They are going to look very silly if this angle isn't explored.

Playing devils advocate here

I can understand the ARU's reticence in some ways in that if they roll out this precedent, when/who is next? How far would it go?

Does it start the beginning of the Bok model with units being selected more often from overseas clubs, with our lack of depth how will that affect the aus S15 sides?

Recalling Genia from France, Quade from Japan and JOC (James O'Connor) from Ireland?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They were always going to be in the squad if fit, this squad will be essentially the same as last year, there isn't time for experimentation, Deans will rely on the known

...and who does the involve playing at 10?

 

[Scotty]

They were always going to be in the squad if fit, this squad will be essentially the same as last year, there isn't time for experimentation, Deans will rely on the known

Why, neither have proven themselves as irreplaceable for the wallabies. Neither have done much this year. It isn't like they are Genia, Moore, Pocock or even TPN.

I think it stinks that fringe internationals with no form get picked in a squad that should be representative of the best in our country, while others that have performed better this year (Eg Fainga'a) or previously (eg Mitchell) miss out.

If you aren't an automatic starting choice for your province when fit, how is it possible that you are an automatic squad selection for your country?

 

[Scotty]

Playing devils advocate here

I can understand the ARU's reticence in some ways in that if they roll out this precedent, when/who is next? How far would it go?

Does it start the beginning of the Bok model with units being selected more often from overseas clubs, with our lack of depth how will that affect the aus S15 sides?

Recalling Genia from France, Quade from Japan and JOC (James O'Connor) from Ireland?

Smith is playing in Australia and is a wallaby great. Not too dangerous a precedent I would think.

In fact it is almost a necessity!

 

[RedsHappy]

Scotty, I think you make an excellent point, but I also think what fp meant was something like:

'This has not got masses to do with ultimately picking the most talented squad per se, rather it reflects Deans increasing conservatism regarding every aspect of Wallaby squad and game tactics, a trenchant conservatism that was inevitably going to continue - or even be enhanced - as he prepares for the BIL tour.'

Am I right fp?

 

[Scotty]

I agree that it isn't unexpected, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[Scotty]

.and who does the involve playing at 10?

You know what would make no sense to me:

Pick a guy that has only played fullback all year for 10. Pick another that has been injured most of the year at 15. Pick another that is coming back from injury and can't make the starting lineup at 12.

I can therefore almost guarantee we will see:

10 JOC (James O'Connor)
12 McCabe
15 Barnes

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You know what would make no sense to me:

Pick a guy that has only played fullback all year for 10. Pick another that has been injured most of the year at 15. Pick another that is coming back from injury and can't make the starting lineup at 12.

I can therefore almost guarantee we will see:

10 JOC (James O'Connor)
12 McCabe
15 Barnes

Precisely why I asked: one would think that now is not the time for experimentation and that RD would rely on the known, just as fatprop says.
The problem with that is that the known (QC (Quade Cooper)) is not in the squad and everything else is experimentation.
In some ways the situation at 10 is a reflection of the lack of progress over the last 6 years - to be this close to a Lions tour (or probably even TRC) and have no standout experienced choice at 10 is laughable.
Hell we've lost 2 years since the last RWC without developing, or just happening to find, credible talent [I do consider Tomua and Lio credible talent at 10 - but they have no test experience] at 10 - assuming that RD and QC (Quade Cooper) cannot work together.

 

[Gnostic]

Playing devils advocate here

I can understand the ARU's reticence in some ways in that if they roll out this precedent, when/who is next? How far would it go?

Does it start the beginning of the Bok model with units being selected more often from overseas clubs, with our lack of depth how will that affect the aus S15 sides?

Recalling Genia from France, Quade from Japan and JOC (James O'Connor) from Ireland?

If the ARU had impeccable ethics they could take that high ground. The fact is they sold the jersey and their ethics when they played Elsom and Vickerman, guaranteeing them the positions without playing to high level or at all in Super Rugby in the years they were picked. If thy deny Smith the opportunity to push for selection on this technicality after they gave the barest nod to the spirit of the same clause for Elsom and Vickerman people can rightly question the reasons behind the decision and will naturally believe that there are ulterior and unwholesome motives. Such are the results of having compromised one's ethical standing.