April Wallaby 30 Man Squad

[p.Tah]

Can we just reopen the Quade to Boxing thread? I feel we could just cut and paste.

 

[Bowside]

It's such a cop out to say that Quade's mistakes at test level are because the gameplan doesn't suit his style.

What exactly does throwing intercepts, throwing forward passes to the opposition and getting kicks charged down have to do with a gameplan?

The reality is that players are under more pressure at test level both because the opposition is better and the gravity of the situation is more intense. Mistakes are also more likely to be punished severely.

Each higher level of rugby is more difficult to execute the same plays successfully. There are many players that excell at club level but then struggle at Super Rugby level. The same applies to Super Rugby vs test rugby.

I think it's a cop out to say test rugby and super rugby are totally different and expect that to be the end of the argument. Pressure is pressure, it exists in certain super rugby games in exactly the same way it exists in test matches.

Intercepts and forward passes are often occur as a result of poor running lines and timing by support players. That has something to do with the gameplan. Furthermore charge downs can occur as a result of receiving the ball in the wrong position and on the back foot, again linked to the gameplan.

I'm not trying to totally shift the blame off Quade. He regularly makes costly mistakes, it's his flaw and it's something he has to overcome in order to be considered a quality test player. But to say that these mistakes are not in some way linked to the game he is being asked to play is nothing but wilful ignorance.

 

[meatsack]

It's such a cop out to say that Quade's mistakes at test level are because the gameplan doesn't suit his style.

What exactly does throwing intercepts, throwing forward passes to the opposition and getting kicks charged down have to do with a gameplan?

If a line is expecting a kick & chase, everything is more shallow. Which means the opposition is closer to everyone. So:

• a long ball is easier to intercept.
• If a player throws in a dummy its more likely the supporting player will overrun the pass (which the passer may attempt to compensate for by throwing it less than backward).
• kicks are actually easier to charge down, because, drumroll please, they're expecting it!

If you have a deeper set attack these are all, not surprisingly, less likely!

 

[Bowside]

He obviously doesnt handle preassure well at times either. But I don't think he handles it any worse than say Berrick Barnes or Kurtley Beale. They just react to it differently: Quade throws intercepts and gets charged down, Barnes sinks further and further back into the pocket and Beale drops the ball and fades out of the game.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it's a cop out to say test rugby and super rugby are totally different and expect that to be the end of the argument. Pressure is pressure, it exists in certain super rugby games in exactly the same way it exists in test matches.

You don't think players get more nervous before a Bledisloe Cup game or a World Cup Semi Final than they do before a Super Rugby game (even a really important Super Rugby game)?

I think the average level of pressure in a test match is much greater than in an average Super Rugby game.

There is much more on the line.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

my last chime in on QC (Quade Cooper).
you can't say its a game plan thing. he executed RD's game plan fine in previous years. then the RWC comes a long and he says the wrong things, the pressure picks up and his confidence gets shattered. he makes mistakes everywhere. then post world cup it continues - when the tighter RWC game plan is gone, and he still makes horrible mistakes.

 

[fatprop]

my last chime in on QC (Quade Cooper).
you can't say its a game plan thing. he executed RD's game plan fine in previous years. then the RWC comes a long and he says the wrong things, the pressure picks up and his confidence gets shattered. he makes mistakes everywhere. then post world cup it continues - when the tighter RWC game plan is gone, and he still makes horrible mistakes.

The game plan changed prior to the RWC, we got boring

We weren't tackling, but had our counter working, we looked great

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eternity]

Almost every time that Quade has played poorly at test level, he's had McCabe inside him. Coincidence? Of course not. Deans selects Cooper due to public pressure, then cripples him with a narrow, kicking game plan and probably the worst 12 to ever represent this country. There was no chance of him ever succeeding under those conditions. Deans is a poor man-manager, a poor coach, and a poor selector. He's done nothing but undermine Australian rugby since he arrived. The fact that he's still coaching at international level is ludicrous.

 

[Bowside]

my last chime in on QC (Quade Cooper).
you can't say its a game plan thing. he executed RD's game plan fine in previous years. then the RWC comes a long and he says the wrong things, the pressure picks up and his confidence gets shattered. he makes mistakes everywhere. then post world cup it continues - when the tighter RWC game plan is gone, and he still makes horrible mistakes.

The 2008-2009 gameplan was different to the 2010 gameplan which was radically different to the 2011-2012 gameplan.

The most similar to the reds game plan is the 2010 wallabies gameplan, but the reds mix it up each week and often kick much more, so the comparison even in this case is not especially valid.

 

[Braveheart81]

Almost every time that Quade has played poorly at test level, he's had McCabe inside him. Coincidence? Of course not. Deans selects Cooper due to public pressure, then cripples him with a narrow, kicking game plan and probably the worst 12 to ever represent this country. There was no chance of him ever succeeding under those conditions. Deans is a poor man-manager, a poor coach, and a poor selector. He's done nothing but undermine Australian rugby since he arrived. The fact that he's still coaching at international level is ludicrous.

This is absolute rubbish.

McCabe played at 12 in the Tri Nations immediately before the RWC with Cooper at 10. Cooper played pretty well during that 3N.

We won that 3N. At the RWC we had the same combination and Cooper was terrible. The pressure in the big games at the RWC with a hostile crowd clearly got to Cooper.

 

[Braveheart81]

The 2008-2009 gameplan was different to the 2010 gameplan which was radically different to the 2011-2012 gameplan.

The most similar to the reds game plan is the 2010 wallabies gameplan, but the reds mix it up each week and often kick much more, so the comparison even in this case is not especially valid.

In 2010 we had Mitchell, Beale and Barnes in exceptional form. For Beale and Mitchell I'd argue that it was career best. JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) were also in excellent form.

A lot of the games where the Wallabies did well can be more attributed to our best players playing well than any substantial differences in game plan.

 

[Lindommer]

Btw, the manner by which this whole 'logistics camp' story has leaked out without a clear, clean media announcement and explanation is quite negligent and predictably incompetent.

RH, you clearly underestimate the power of G&GR to influence events: the poor bastard who mans the media desk at the ARU has been sent off for remedial writing lessons after his inadequacies have been cruelly exposed by Cat_A. When he returns we'll (hopefully) be able to look forward to some much more coherent missives from the ARU.

 

[Bowside]

This is absolute rubbish.

McCabe played at 12 in the Tri Nations immediately before the RWC with Cooper at 10. Cooper played pretty well during that 3N.

We won that 3N. At the RWC we had the same combination and Cooper was terrible. The pressure in the big games at the RWC with a hostile crowd clearly got to Cooper.

We played one good half of rugby in 2011 against an All Blacks team with one eye (and one hand) on the World Cup. It was enough to win us the game.

The springboks were 'kak' that year, and when we played the All Blacks in NZ we weren't all that great.

People try and turn the 2011 3N into something that it wasn't. We would never have had a chance had NZ not sent a second string team to the republic.

In isolation you look at the results and say a wins a win, but success over any period is more about consistently playing good rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree with that however it doesn't change my point. Cooper's form in the 3N was good. He'd just come off an exceptional Super Rugby season where the Reds won.

He then went to the RWC with the same team and played terribly. I don't see how that blame can be put on McCabe. I don't see how you can really argue anything except the pressure of the big games in the RWC got to him.

 

[barbarian]

It always gets me how the pro-QC (Quade Cooper) camp are so desperate to blame anyone other than Quade for Quade's errors. It's Robbie's game plan. Or it's a poor forward pack. Or it's Pat McCabe at 12. Or the ARU. Or it's La Nina. Or it's the mean NZ crowd.

I don't want to tar a whole group with the same brush, so don't take this personally if you are pro-Quade. But it is certainly true for some people.

Ultimately these all play a part, but the failure of QC (Quade Cooper) in big international games comes down to Quade.

Now I was fairly willing to forgive these past failings and pick him to play the Lions. But clearly Robbie Deans is not so forgiving.
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[Bowside]

But on the contrary it always gets me how the the anti-QC (Quade Cooper) camp are so desperate to blame the wallabies poor performance on Quade. He is such a small part of the problem.

 

[barbarian]

But on the contrary it always gets me how the the anti-QC (Quade Cooper) camp are so desperate to blame the wallabies poor performance on Quade. He is such a small part of the problem.

And that is a fair riposte. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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[Bowside]

I agree with that however I doesn't change my point. Cooper's form in the 3N was good. He'd just come off an exceptional Super Rugby season where the Reds won.

He then went to the RWC with the same team and played terribly. I don't see how that blame can be put on McCabe. I don't see how you can really argue anything except the pressure of the big games in the RWC got to him.

Coopers form for the reds was good. His form for the wallabies was 'passable'. The wallabies backline has not clicked since 2010, save for a brief moment on the 2011 eoyt when we had Tapuai on the field in place of McCabe.

I think it is pretty fair to say the different gameplan (and the selection of McCabe at 12) is part of the problem.

 

[qwerty51]

The 2010 backline clicked on attack but not on defence. There needs to be a balance and 2010 was not a good year for the backline. Robbie rightly introduced McCabe to sure up the defence in WC year and it worked.

 

[Groucho]

And for my second whinge of the day. No wonder we're pushing shit up a hill trying to dominate world cricket or rugby in this country.

CA has fucked over our chances in successive Ashes, India, against SA - due to consistently fucking up the schedule and not allowing our test team the required preparation time.

Ditto, the ARU has rooted our chances in recent seasons with its atrocious scheduling (think Scotland, Samoa, EOYT after RWC11, now the Lions.

If we lose the first Lions test, the ARU top brass should be thrashed around the training paddock and chucked in the surf for a mid winter 5am swim. Fuckwits!

When else could we have played any of those games? The international window is full.

If you lose on a Wednesday, and don't want it to happen again, then blame yourself, not Wednesday.