April Wallaby 30 Man Squad

[barbarian]

Wonder if Servo watches any rugby? If he is happy to sit back and believe whatever Deans spins his way on selections/game plan without seeing for himself or getting other opinions then Deans is odds on to go around again.

What has this got to do with the CEO? Deans will be judged on results alone, selections won't come into it.
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[boyo]

The 3 "top picks" for 10 are fully paid up members of the FIGJAM club as a result of which they are impossible to deal with.
How is that Deans fault.
His failing was in not dropping JOC (James O'Connor) for the RWC when he failed to front for the photo call.

The FIGJAM club: love it!

 

[Ruggo]

"Earlier this season, Deans said Cooper would begin the year with a clean slate but also underlined he would select players who teammates could rely upon under pressure."

I would prefer a coach we can rely on under pressure. Deans keeps getting his slate cleaned every year despite that it requires a cold chisel and a karcher just to remove the bull shit from it.

 

[barbarian]

I would preface this by saying I would probably pick Cooper at 10.

But I can actually see where Deans is coming from (again, not that I agree with it). Cooper faultered under pressure at the RWC. Now the failings weren't just his, but he definitely cracked when they needed him. Then he comes back and is OK in Bled 2, but stinks it up against Argentina on the GC.

So clearly he doesn't trust him to perform in gold. Now if we were playing Scotland or Ireland to warm up then maybe he could give him another chance. But maybe he doesn't want to take the risk of throwing him straight in to play the Lions, especially when there are a few viable alternatives out there who are much the same as Cooper.

Just trying to put myself in RD's shoes.
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[Train Without a Station]

Baa Baa, while he was "stinking it up" against Argentina on the GC, he still put more blokes into holes than happened in any of the other tests.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah but putting on my Deans hat again- that type of rugby doesn't beat the Lions. It's like a RWC. You need to do the hard yards, and flashy stuff without backbone just isn't going to cut it like it does against Argentina on the GC. Your good plays won't be as good, and the errors will be punished fivefold.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I can understand where you are coming from, but putting on one's common sense hat, playing 1 dimensional rugby isn't going to beat them either. They will be better than that. As have most teams that have beaten us since the start of 2011. Deans conservative coaching has not yielded great results.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

i don't think you could accuse JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, or Lilo of being one dimensional players

 

[Gnostic]

I know what you are saying Baa Baa, and I too can see that Deans could well be thinking that with the statements attributed to him. However that logic is flawed, in that it doesn't take into account the selection of complimentary players to suit the skills that Cooper brought to the team and the tactics he was asked to play. It is also why the argument that he folded under pressure is flawed. He executed the game plan he was asked to play, in the same way Carter has executed the plan he was asked to at the Tahs for all these years. The fact is that IMO Cooper was an ill-conceived selection right from the start to play the game that Deans had in mind, and the selection of McAbe at IC made the situation worse.

Before we can judge Deans on this years selection we will need to look at the plan he is going to put out this year. I live in hopes that we will finally see a complete amalgamation of selection for purpose and game plan. If rapid counter attack and playing through the 13 and wings is to be the plan than Cooper is the only selection at 10 but he must be paired with a creative 12 who works hard to offer options in attack, eg Tapuai or Lilo. If a more conservative game is to be played like the RWC Lilo would be a far better option. I know that Deans is likely to select JOC (James O'Connor) at 10, but I just don't see him as a 10, but regardless of the selection at 10 it has to be made with a view of the players complimenting their relative strengths to execute the game plan. There has to now been little evidence of this under Deans.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

don't think QC (Quade Cooper) deserves to be there off form this year, form for wallabies last year and especially attitude last year.
until you defends in the front line....he can't play 10 for wallabies - especially v Lions

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

y. It is also why the argument that he folded under pressure is flawed. He executed the game plan he was asked to play .........

ridiculous. he completely choked at RWC regardless of game plan.

 

[RedsHappy]

"Earlier this season, Deans said Cooper would begin the year with a clean slate but also underlined he would select players who teammates could rely upon under pressure."

I would prefer a coach we can rely on under pressure. Deans keeps getting his slate cleaned every year despite that it requires a cold chisel and a karcher just to remove the bull shit from it.

The interesting fact and clear trend Ruggo is that Deans, over numerous years not able to win the ARU-promised Bleds and 3Ns, since roughly mid-2011 and definitely during and since the RWC, came to adopt tactical stances and game plans (where they can just be hazily discerned) that have become more and more conservative, attack-muted and defence-driven.

We saw the vivid continuity of this obvious trend in all of the Wallabies' 2012 season: the scraped-in wins, an average of c.1 try per Test, and Deans ending the year arguing that tries (paraphrasing) 'aren't the be all and end all' for the Wallabies and Tests in general. The traditional Wallabies attacking characteristics and intelligent ensemble back line play have virtually disappeared under Deans; like Deans or not, this is fact. And, to your point, its very arguable that this is precisely what the pressure of relative mediocrity of Wallaby delivery over 2008-2010 has brought out in Deans, the fear of a worsening gradient of w-l %s has driven him to containment and caution versus adventure and the creation of a skilful, but on paper more risky, attacking capability inside the Deans Wallabies of a type that, by way of example, Wayne Smith under Rennie and Hansen has so deftly crafted.

This new legacy and, for Australian rugby, a highly uncharacteristic mode of team and tactical construction, will meet its most public test here, at home, in the very near future. It will be impossible for Deans to now reverse course and design any form of innovative, integrated attacking capability within the 2013 Wallabies with no Tests or even warm-up Wallaby game before June 22, Brisbane. The pressure that has been upon Deans for some years now has found its rigid and unalterable form; in my view, it will only be factors of great individual playing talent that might escape it and yield the type of victories of which we can all be proud. Deans' private learning curve will play little part in any such victories, as we saw so clearly, after years of promises and build-up, in the RWC 2011 vs Ireland, and the rugby history we have now inherited from that crucial game and its later echoes.
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[Gnostic]

ridiculous. he completely choked at RWC regardless of game plan.

Really. Great argument.

Cooper's skills did not suit the plan. If I ask you to execute some plan outside you skill set and you fail, is it then fair to lambast you for that failure and heap blame on you, taking no responsibility? Should not I take responsibility for putting a person not skilled for the task in that position?

I think that Cooper is a marvellously skilled running 10 with a fair to good kicking game when afforded the time to execute said kicks. He is not a defensive, nor a largely kicking 10. To select him as such is a major error in selection. To select him in that position and compound that with backline selections that do not have dominant kickers is just incompetent.

 

[Train Without a Station]

don't think QC (Quade Cooper) deserves to be there off form this year, form for wallabies last year and especially attitude last year.
until you defends in the front line..he can't play 10 for wallabies - especially v Lions

Is JOC (James O'Connor) defending in the front lines too now? Until he plays 10 for the Rebels he can't play there for the Wallabies. You could say that about all the alternatives.

Also JOC (James O'Connor) nor Beale or Barnes deserve to be there of flyhalf form this year and last year in Beale's case for the Wallabies... Though he looked good for the Rebels. JOC (James O'Connor) looked very average jumping into 10 for the periods of tripe I could stay awake to watch last weekend.

 

[RedsHappy]

I would preface this by saying I would probably pick Cooper at 10.

But I can actually see where Deans is coming from (again, not that I agree with it). Cooper faultered under pressure at the RWC. Now the failings weren't just his, but he definitely cracked when they needed him. Then he comes back and is OK in Bled 2, but stinks it up against Argentina on the GC.

So clearly he doesn't trust him to perform in gold. Now if we were playing Scotland or Ireland to warm up then maybe he could give him another chance. But maybe he doesn't want to take the risk of throwing him straight in to play the Lions, especially when there are a few viable alternatives out there who are much the same as Cooper.

Just trying to put myself in RD's shoes.
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As you'll indirectly see from my other comments, I think you've got a good translation of Deans-mind, mid-2013, and the type of risk-reward package that is QC (Quade Cooper) will not figure in Deans' BIL calculus, he will therein replay a version of all that he engendered into the 2012 Wallabies.

Deans notably said after RWC 2011 'we'll improve our chances in RWC 2015 if the players learn the lessons of RWC 2011'.

Deans 'blames players', Deans shows zero signs of 'I have made major errors and I have to change my thinking'. Whatever else, he will see Cooper as blameful and unredeemed from the RWC, and maybe more. Never mind Deans' deeply flawed game plans (such as they are/were) and erratic selections and odd player combinations.

Over the last 5 years of trying, Deans has not accumulated anywhere near the genuine national coaching self-confidence to tailor new game plans or risk multiple new selections or tactical styles or attacking innovations during the 'must, must, must win' BIL tour. His die is cast. He will only bring forward what he has recently done before and will fault the players if they 'don't execute well enough'.

 

[USARugger]

Richie McCheat doesn't think highly of Deans for very good reasons.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Well look on the bright side he'll be available for QLD at least....

I hope Lilo is given the reins to run the backline. I think his play and temperament is not too different to Cruden and Cruden was basically thrown into the deep end early on.

 

[Richo]

RH, is a Deans-related thread like a candle to a moth for you?

Whatever the reason, good to see you posting.

 

[ChargerWA]

Deans is a plague upon Australian Rugby.

Name one other international coach who would go into a series against the Lions with his two first choice 10's having both been played in different positions all year?

Not saying JOC (James O'Connor) and Lilo aren't capable of filling that role, but it speaks volumes of the esteem he is held in by the rest of the professional Australian rugby community that he is completely ignored by the S15 sides.

I would never not cheer the Wallabies on, but if we are loose the series I hope we get spanked to hasten his departure. Sadly, with the KPI structure he is on, 1 win would probably be enough for him to keep his job.

 

[USARugger]

More shit journalism that tries to make the news and not report it. Love how there's no mention of how the Reds will be in New Zealand the night before the camp is supposed to start and you know, how that may be a factor here. Wouldn't be surprised is this camp is entirely Brumbies/Tahs/Rebels simply based on the fact that the Reds will be in NZ and the Force will still be in Perth on Saturday night. It's the first of several preliminary camps anyway so isn't really of indication of anything at all in regards to the actual Lions selections.

Really sick of the sensationalist journalism surrounding this tour already.