All Blacks vs Springboks, Wellington

[Gnostic]

AT least try and be impartial. It has been well and truly explained in a few posts why the AB ruck techniques are illegal about 50 to 60% of the time. The fact that they do not get pulled up for it is a major blight on the game. The problem is that they do it at speed and the refs are bamboozled half the time and pick the easiest option which is leave the ball with the blacks or ping the opposition for holding on.

As for trying to say remember Gregan, yes I remember very well Gregan constantly getting marched 10 for talking to the ref, and I also remember Justin Marshal having probably the biggest dummy spit I have seen in professional Rugby throwing the ball away and waving his arm and yelling at the ref then storming off all after getting marched 10 for dissent and he still stayed on.

Only two Oz players have been good Ref managers and they were Eales and Farr-Jones, and neither of them consistantly played outside the laws like McCaw.

 

[cyclopath]

Ah, glad too see the world is back squarely on it's axis. We're beating the old enemy and the Aussies are accusing us of being illegal, cheating and the refs are being biased... Phew!

Another great game to watch as an ab supporter, the breakdown work and counter rucking was absolutely immense. I'm sure if pocock had been the instigator, there would be many on here claiming further proof that he's the second coming, so I'll take your analyses as compliments. Weepu proving his doubters, including me, wrong which is great to seer
Mccaw lucky not to binned and roussow unlucky. but to a Certain extent u make ur own luck and ref mgmt is a key part of the game... Remember gregan?

Dpk - despite what u guys say, stil rather not see giteau on the teamsheet and players past like smith, morty and larkham were always a terror! Of the current crop, genia, pocock and ioane all show that potential and I guess the bled this year shall prove this right or wrong.... Either Wat... Bring it!!!

Axis is aligned - Kiwis have their siege mentality hats on and criticism of their play is sour grapes.:fishing
But to be completely serious, MR, even the Kiwi commentators were bemused by the ref not carding Richie. That is my gripe - not what he does per se, since playing the ref is part of the game, and he is a consummate professional at that, no doubt. But the ref actually warned him very specifically about him and the team not doing the same thing again, but when it happened not many minutes later nothing was done. That is not biased reffing, but is incompetent reffing.
I saw no cause to complain of bias one way or the other, but he reffed aspects very poorly IMHO.
Cheating? Well, show me a breakdown where there is none, and I will immediately declare it a new sport and you can have the naming rights. The ABs do the breakdown well - the pillars are in place again, they drive through well but then just hang about unbound on the other side, which seems technically offside or at least obstruction to me. I say good play to them...until a ref decides to ping them, then they will have to learn a new one, which they probably will.
And most posters have acknowledged the awesomeness of the ABs...bastards!!:angryfire:

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I. Dagg. Is this person related to F. Dagg, or T. Dagg, T Dagg, T. Dagg, T. Dagg, T. Dagg of Taihape Farming stock subject of much study in the 70's by NZ's most renowned Social Commentator John Clarke.

Given this name, despite his obvious talent on the Rugby Field, I am scurrying away to polish up the best of my old NZ Sheep Shagger jokes. This is far too easy.

Given what we have seen from the AB's this year, the tasteless international insults contest may be the only thing we win in 2010.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Gnostic why would I be impartial when u write such insulting posts? The way we play is a blight on the game? Hardly music to my ears. Your views on the ruck breakdown situation are just that, your views. The game has always been played on the edge and if u don't like that, that's fair enough. But I bet ur bottom dollar in the wobs match next week, there will possibly be a point for an infringe against an Oz player at ever breakdown - I suspect u won't be gnashing ur teeth in such angst then though and looking to insult wob fans. Ur comment about Marshall ... Suggest u google David Knox bledisloe if u want to see a dummy spit... Although he wasn't wearing black so am sure it was ok

Cyc good post, I agree rmc was lucky not to be binned

 

[Gnostic]

Insulting? :lmao: . I usually go for anybody (even the Poms) against the Boks, but the blatant continuos infringing by the ABs at the breakdown is just what I said. You do not even attempt to post an opposing analysis just the poor "everyone plays on the edge". I think you would be hard pressed to find anybody in World Rugby who would support the ABs techniques as legal. Devilliers as crazy (and entertaining) as he is has a point hidden amoungst his ramblings.

The alleged Bledosloe dummy spit by Knox is his just usual behaviour, ask anybody associated with Randwick (doesn't excuse it but he has never been any different), and in any event doesn't get anywhere near the childish rant by Marshal.

Fact is I hope to see the ABs get penalised and sent off for the continual infringments and I would expect to whinging to emenante in World Cup proportions from across the ditch. I fully expect my hopes to go unfulfilled so I will be back expounding (whinging) again on the lack of will to officiate against certain AB players.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Your entitled to yr view - I have no wish to plough through analysis to counter your argumen which u clearly wont change anyway.

No skin off my nose either way if u support anybody against us as u think we are such a bunch of cheats. The great John eales, who you referred to in ur post above was the chairman of the group who gave Richie world player of the year - good enough for me.

I look fwd to ur post next week lamenting the dodgy breakdown work by elsom sharp pocock and co as it clearly upsets u so much

 

[Scorz]

Actually Gnostic I watched a replay today, and Richie was warned personally, after which he hid a bit, and the next warning given was for the rest of the team. Go watch it.

 

[Gnostic]

Actually Gnostic I watched a replay today, and Richie was warned personally, after which he hid a bit, and the next warning given was for the rest of the team. Go watch it.

Yes it was indeed the case as Carter was the next penalised after McCaw's warning and it was indeed a team warning. Then McCaw was again penalised and did not receive the promised card from both his personal and team warning. This is the point of the example in this game. It is not the point of my post, which was the analysis of the refereeing of the breakdown.

As an aside I see the NZ members here make no comment at all regarding the officiating with regards to the other areas I raised is it you agree or just the precious reaction to somebody criticising McCaw.

 

[cyclopath]

Actually Gnostic I watched a replay today, and Richie was warned personally, after which he hid a bit, and the next warning given was for the rest of the team. Go watch it.

But with all due respect, Scorz, and I am not trying to be antagonistic here, the ref CLEARLY said he would send the next one infringing in such a way at the breakdown to the bin. He did not. Whether he personally warned Richie or someone else is irrelevant. Why give a very specific direction to the captain, then disregard it soon after?? Whether they kill the ball in the 22 or at half-way to me is of no consequence - it is the same offence.
I want consistency and some balls from refs. This is not an anti-Richie thing either, he just happened to be the naughty boy in this case!
By the way, that avatar is growing on you!!

 

[Scorz]

More that I can't be fucked with the depth of it. Ref was there, we weren't, no ref's have special love for AB's, unless you wear a tin hat and exist on twinkies in a caravan. Plenty of calls go the other way, it generally evens out, and the losers bleat. NZers are just as guilty of that latter trait too.

Yeah we are precious abut McCaw. So what? Something wrong with being proud of a player? You would be too if you had him, he's fucking great. Luckily for us he's a Kiwi, so we get to watch him and cheer for him while everyone else whinges and gets shat on by the AB's.

BTW he was warned in the red zone, his next warning was for the rest of the park.

 

[Scorz]

Cyclo, I think most of the Kiwi's watching were anticipating a card. When it didn't come a few went looking for why, and there is some reasoning to it - there has to be a specific warning for one constant infringement if it has been vaunted as a card-able offence by the ref IIRC. The ref cocked up - but he cocked himself up, and if Richie got away with something because of it, you'll never get this Kiwi to say it's a bad thing.

Re avatar - arrrrgh. Is it a month yet?

 

[Scorz]

I thought I posted this before but anyway, this is classic bong smoke:

I think you would be hard pressed to find anybody in World Rugby who would support the ABs techniques as legal.

Except the ref's controlling the game from the best vantage point to judge?

 

[cyclopath]

Cyclo, I think most of the Kiwi's watching were anticipating a card. When it didn't come a few went looking for why, and there is some reasoning to it - there has to be a specific warning for one constant infringement if it has been vaunted as a card-able offence by the ref IIRC. The ref cocked up - but he cocked himself up, and if Richie got away with something because of it, you'll never get this Kiwi to say it's a bad thing.

Re avatar - arrrrgh. Is it a month yet?

Indeed, the ref cocked it up. I am realistic, and don't expect you to bag Richie, but as I said, my beef is with the ref, not him. Sure he pisses me off like any really good oppo player, but he plays the refs like no other, and it is up to THEM to sort their shit out.
I am sure Thomo is keeping track of the days on the avatar front!

 

[Gnostic]

I thought I posted this before but anyway, this is classic bong smoke:

Except the ref's controlling the game from the best vantage point to judge?

Actually the ref is probably in the worst position in a lot of cases with so many competing areas for him to watch, such as offside line, entry point of both sides hands of people on the ground, tackler and assist tackler releasing etc etc etc. It all happens in a split second. Hence the need for referee performance reviews and specific game preparation for each match.

You are obviously incapable of any sort of critical review of the game where the ABs are concerned so go ahead and watch and enjoy. Just don't post when others raise issues reagrding technical aspects of the laws and their application if you aren't prepared to do that review.

And before you try to infer that this is not critical review and is in some obscure way a general attack on the ABs, go back and look at my posting history here and on PR and you will find that I offer the same of The Wallabies, Oz S14 teams and even Randwick (though I must do penance every time for blasphemy on the last).

 

[Scorz]

Indeed, the ref cocked it up. I am realistic, and don't expect you to bag Richie, but as I said, my beef is with the ref, not him. Sure he pisses me off like any really good oppo player, but he plays the refs like no other, and it is up to THEM to sort their shit out.
I am sure Thomo is keeping track of the days on the avatar front!

Mate, I'm sure all rugby fans, of any nation, wish that the ref was not as big a part of the game as they are. We live in hope! And that's all your getting...

Re - Avatar: Just thought, I may keep it - if Wobbie keeps his 54% record going it could be more heinous to you guys than me eventually...

 

[barbarian]

I don't really buy into the "ABs cheat at 60-70%" of rucks or whatever statistics you throw out. I don't even think they cheat more than other sides. I think McCaw is on the wrong side of the law more often than not, but my hat goes off to him if he can get away with it. That was why I was disappointed when he wasnt shown yellow- because I do get a fair amount of joy seeing the AB captain, whoever it may be, walking dejected to the sin bin. I'm sure the same applies on the opposite side of the ditch to our captain.

But in all seriousness the refereeing was quite poor I thought. The balance of decisions certainly favoured the ABs. A lot of it was home crowd stuff- in the first half, for example, Schalk Burger comes flying in to the ruck and takes someone out, the crowd all go up, and the ref blows belatedly for side entry. When you look at it again though, it was a perfectly legal clearout, he just came flying in. Also in the Muliaina try the ball was turned over by the Saffas because of Conrad Smith playing the ball in the ruck. It wouldn't have changed the result, the ABs played very well, but the balance of decisions favoured the home side for sure, which is not unusual.

 

[Scorz]

Actually the ref is probably in the worst position in a lot of cases with so many competing areas for him to watch, such as offside line, entry point of both sides hands of people on the ground, tackler and assist tackler releasing etc etc etc. It all happens in a split second. Hence the need for referee performance reviews and specific game preparation for each match.

You are obviously incapable of any sort of critical review of the game where the ABs are concerned so go ahead and watch and enjoy. Just don't post when others raise issues reagrding technical aspects of the laws and their application if you aren't prepared to do that review.

And before you try to infer that this is not critical review and is in some obscure way a general attack on the ABs, go back and look at my posting history here and on PR and you will find that I offer the same of The Wallabies, Oz S14 teams and even Randwick (though I must do penance every time for blasphemy on the last).

Dude, if you have this many problems with the way the game is played, just stop watching. As for whether or not I can post, shouldn't you leave that to the mods to decide? Good luck with your boring shite anyway, I certainly won't bother interacting with you again if all you want to do is crap on about how badly the game is reffed and played and watched by everyone else.

 

[Gnostic]

Dude, if you have this many problems with the way the game is played, just stop watching. As for whether or not I can post, shouldn't you leave that to the mods to decide? Good luck with your boring shite anyway, I certainly won't bother interacting with you again if all you want to do is crap on about how badly the game is reffed and played and watched by everyone else.

You are a precious little child aren't you. Yes please do not interact with me again, you don't have the capacity for any intelligent discussion on the application of the laws.

You obviously don't go in for critical review to improve, not only in Rugby but in all aspects of life. Go back and read the posts and find where I have "so many problems".

 

[Scorz]

You are a precious little child aren't you. Yes please do not interact with me again, you don't have the capacity for any intelligent discussion on the application of the laws.

You obviously don't go in for critical review to improve, not only in Rugby but in all aspects of life. Go back and read the posts and find where I have "so many problems".

Yeah, I am just scrolling back over your grown up scribblings now. You wait here and I'll post your problems up in a bit. If you get bored waiting, go fuck yourself.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Yes it was indeed the case as Carter was the next penalised after McCaw's warning and it was indeed a team warning. Then McCaw was again penalised and did not receive the promised card from both his personal and team warning. This is the point of the example in this game. It is not the point of my post, which was the analysis of the refereeing of the breakdown.

As an aside I see the NZ members here make no comment at all regarding the officiating with regards to the other areas I raised is it you agree or just the precious reaction to somebody criticising McCaw.

Can you quit it with the precious calling crap? Not sure if you notice, but I said he was lucky not to be binned & Scorz said he was expeting it as well.

I don't agree with your analysis, no, because when I watched it live, I ALWAYS assume the referee has the best vantage point and can call it the best way. I have erred from this once earlier this year but I am otherwise consistent. There is so much going on at a breakdown, I can only call it as I see it. And I saw the AB's once again hitting the breakdown explosively and often pushing over the SA ball holder - what are they supposed to be doing when over and potentially in an offside position.. walk back around to onside, giving the ball back to SA? Like hell. Hold your position & if the ref blows, then your in shit, if he doesn't do it again next ruck as you are securing ball. As Scorz alludes to above of course Kiwi's are going to side with it - if you guys get back the Bledisloe by playing in exactly the same was we currently do (which you deem illegal) whilst the AB's play 100% within the laws (as you see them) are you REALLY going to have a problem with it?

Also, did you see McCaw's comments on planet-rugby about it?

"The ref allowed a good contest which was good and when we got under pressure I was guilty of giving away a couple of penalties," said McCaw.

"I guess when you're under pressure like that you've got to try and get the decisions right and I thought the ref was pretty good.

"We knew where we stood. If you held your feet and got over the ball you got rewarded but if you got it wrong he was pretty hard on you. You've got to adjust as you go.

Now given that Rolland was at all times 3ft from the action & McCaw's comments above, are you prepared to re-think? Of course your not, yet your demanding we do & then pulling out the precious argument as some sort of defence.

By all means, you have every right to hate McCaw - I'm not a fan of him when the Chiefs play the Crusaders. But I recognise a master at work & I sure as hell don't think the way he plays on it is "a blight on the game" as you put it.