All Blacks v Wallabies, Dunedin, 19th October 2013

[Hugh Jarse]

Only 4 missing.

 

[cyclopath]

This years all blacks team was missing Carter, SBW, Jane, Kaino and it didn't bother them one bit.

McCaw, Read and Whitelock would be bigger losses, but yeah, their "depth" issues are not in the same category as ours.

 

[Groucho]

Any team losing 6 of their best players would suddenly start losing to more teams, including the Darkness or Saffers.

Lose McCaw, Read, Carter, Dagg, Whitelock, B Smith and suddenly they are vulnerable.

That's true. However the ABs lose many fewer games when they suffer runs of injuries because they have much greater depth. That's down to systems: there's no biological reason we should have fewer good players. The Saffers are somewhere between: perennial contenders for second like us, and until this year, our recent bunnies. Our immediate goal should be to recover that situation and there's no reason we can't do it.

 

[Groucho]

Only 4 missing.

The ABs would be a very good chance of beating us now (maybe any team) with their entire first team out, because their 2nd XV are all of high international standard, and because they're so well organised.

 

[Bowside]

McCaw, Read and Whitelock would be bigger losses, but yeah, their "depth" issues are not in the same category as ours.

The biggest losses for the AB's use to be McCaw, Carter, Nonu and Smith (2008-2011). But due to depth nowadays losing Read and Retalic is probably worse for them.

I rate us a chance in this game simply because C. Smith is out. His combination with Nonu is the glue that holds the All Blacks together. If Ben Smith can get his game to a level even close Conrads, the All Blacks should continue to dominate international rugby.

 

[Bowside]

I think one of the bigger problems facing the wallabies is the lack of combinations, and the subsequent inability to build them due to depth and injury.

- Horwill needs a partner in the second row that is upto the standard.
- Mowen/Fardy/Hooper isn't well balanced.
- Lilo/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) lacks in so many ways. Lilo lacks penetration, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) lacks distribution skills. Long term I want to see Godwin at 12 and a distributor outside him.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I'd like to remind you all that Carter, Cruden and Barrett were all injured and Colin Slade was out of favour, so they called up Tom Taylor, usually a 12 who hasn't really had a full season at Super Level, and he was brilliant.

Imagine an E team of
Pauliasi Manu, James Parsons, Angus Ta'avao, Mike Fitzgerald, Josh Bekhuis, Brad Shields, Elliot Dixon, Peter Saili, TJ Perenara, Gareth Anscombe, Frank Halai, Reynold Lee-Lo, Charlie Ngatai, Tom Marshall, Robbie Robbinson
Motu Matu'u, Ma'afu Fia, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Dominic Bird, TJ Ioane, Augustine Pulu, Hayden Parker, Tim Nanai-Williams

What would our E team be?

 

[Muttonbird]

The biggest losses for the AB's use to be McCaw, Carter, Nonu and Smith (2008-2011). But due to depth nowadays losing Read and Retalic is probably worse for them.

I rate us a chance in this game simply because C. Smith is out. His combination with Nonu is the glue that holds the All Blacks together. If Ben Smith can get his game to a level even close Conrads, the All Blacks should continue to dominate international rugby.

Heard Shag on the wireless this afternoon saying Ben Smith has been managed to get to the point he occupies now. He said some players walk into the jersey and some suffer self-doubt issues when they arrive. Ben Smith was one of those. They deliberately chose to select him at wing this season so he could grow his confidence (in an easy position).

Also, they've been very pleased with Liam Messam's development. Shag said most of it was down to the maturing of the man. He twice singled out Chiefs assistant coach Tom Coventry for driving Messam and also the Chief's recent success for giving Messam the self-belief he needed.

 

[Bullrush]

I wasn't sold on Messam at all but he really proved himself in that last SA Test for mine. Kaino is going to have a battle on his hands....great for NZ rugby!!

 

[Zander]

Horwill needs a partner in the second row that is upto the standard.

Horwil has not outplayed his locking partner since the Lions series.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Simmons and Timani have both been 5 on the G&GR scale in their games, and Horwill has struggled to out-perform. If Timani was staying around next year I'd go for Timani and Simmons.

 

[Pauly]

If Ben Smith can get his game to a level even close Conrads, the All Blacks should continue to dominate international rugby.

I thought Ben Smith had a blinder against SA. Very impressive - big future ahead for the man.

 

[cyclopath]

I wasn't sold on Messam at all but he really proved himself in that last SA Test for mine. Kaino is going to have a battle on his hands..great for NZ rugby!!

Not to mention Luatua. Embarrassment of riches at 6.
Bastards.

 

[Dan54]

Heard Shag on the wireless this afternoon saying Ben Smith has been managed to get to the point he occupies now. He said some players walk into the jersey and some suffer self-doubt issues when they arrive. Ben Smith was one of those. They deliberately chose to select him at wing this season so he could grow his confidence (in an easy position).

Also, they've been very pleased with Liam Messam's development. Shag said most of it was down to the maturing of the man. He twice singled out Chiefs assistant coach Tom Coventry for driving Messam and also the Chief's recent success for giving Messam the self-belief he needed.

I heard that interview too Mutton, and have to say you can't help being a bit impressed with the way Shag and co have managed some of these pleyers, was also real pleased to hear how much credit he seemed to give Conventry and co for Messam's development.

 

[Muttonbird]

Yeah, I think it highlights one of the most important strengths of NZ rugby; everyone communicating and working together toward a common goal. The central contracting/socialist business model at it's best.

 

[Braveheart81]

I wonder if To'omua will play 12 with Leali'ifano out?

I think that is the best option right now given the squad we've had together for the last couple of months.

I think the team will be:

Slipper
Moore
Alexander
Simmons
Horwill
Mowen
Hooper
McCalman
Genia
Cooper
Tomane
To'omua
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Folau

Robinson, Kepu, Fainga'a, Dennis, Timani, White, Foley, CFS

I'd much prefer to see Robbo start at LHP and Slipper move to THP (with Alexander the reserve LHP) but I don't think we'll see that.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I remember Link touting Quade at 10, To'omua at 12 before the first bledisloe, and it worked pretty well against the argies. I'd be happy with it.

 

[Ignoto]

How has To'omua been kicking this year? Losing Lilo will really have an affect on our kicking percentage. I think Quade was at 70something% during the Super campaign?

 

[Braveheart81]

How has To'omua been kicking this year? Losing Lilo will really have an affect on our kicking percentage. I think Quade was at 70something% during the Super campaign?

I don't think To'omua kicked at all this year and he isn't very good at it.

Cooper will be the goalkicker and assuming Foley is on the bench, he's the likely backup.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I think we might see Harris called up just for the goalkicking.