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All Blacks EOYT

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dobduff11

Trevor Allan (34)
How the hell do they keep selecting Mike Tindall?
Answer: because he is the most devastating outside centre in Europe

Lee Ben jacobs isn't a starter for wasps most of time, he wouldn't get near the team

Centre Breakdown:
12's - Flutey, Hape, Barritt, Allen, Tindall, Waldouck, Barkley
13's - Tindall, Hape, Armitage, Tait, Waldouck, Allen, Hipkiss, Lowe

Lets see how this match goes, It will either be a tight match with England to win it
or tight score until 65 then carter and nonu break our hearts by setting up three late tries
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
I always support any team that plays the Saffies...with possible exception of England...

And with the ABs....I'll support the Irish, Welsh and the Scots over them...and perhaps France...but not England...

So I guess in a nutshell, I support any team that plays England!
 

Bon

Ward Prentice (10)
I always support Oz, except when you play us, I think most NZ''ers do. [ So long as we can poke a bit of stick at each other]
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
How the hell do they keep selecting Mike Tindall?
Lets see how this match goes, It will either be a tight match with England to win it
or tight score until 65 then carter and nonu break our hearts by setting up three late tries

Hmm, you're not allowing for the possibility of ABs being 21-3 up at half time then running away with it?
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
How the hell do they keep selecting Mike Tindall?
Answer: because he is the most devastating outside centre in Europe

Lee Ben jacobs isn't a starter for wasps most of time, he wouldn't get near the team

Centre Breakdown:
12's - Flutey, Hape, Barritt, Allen, Tindall, Waldouck, Barkley
13's - Tindall, Hape, Armitage, Tait, Waldouck, Allen, Hipkiss, Lowe

Lets see how this match goes, It will either be a tight match with England to win it
or tight score until 65 then carter and nonu break our hearts by setting up three late tries

For real? What about Tait, is he still in the frame? I have to admit that I have no real access to coverage of the premiership and I have nothing against Tindall I promise. But he's a plodder when England need some spark out there. He's also got the look of a man who's about 80 years old.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Unless they're playing us I always support the Kiwis (although sometimes Ireland or Italy due to underdog status/a bit of blood)

Other than that, anyone who's playing England :)
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Lee Ben jacobs isn't a starter for wasps most of time, he wouldn't get near the team

He started just about every game last season and more than any other Wasps player. He is a regular starter this year too in the games I've seen right from the opening round at HQ. He missed a Leicester game I saw but the commentator said he had a hamstring tightness and wasn't in the 23. Next week he was back - but on the bench. He certainly started in both rounds of the Heineken Cup to date. He won't start in every game this season, naturally, and since Steve Kefu is back he will be rested more, but to say that he isn't a starter most of the time for Wasps is plain wrong.

Centre Breakdown:
12's - Flutey, Hape, Barritt, Allen, Tindall, Waldouck, Barkley

Flutey and Barritt both top 12s but hurt as is Turner-Hall. Jonno won't pick Tindall as 12 because he is priceless at scoping the game at 13 at the highest level. Allen - I know he's played for England in the odd game but I don't rate him; in fact in many ways I rate 12Trees the higher of the two in the Leicester team.

Barkley? Hurt, but has no bottle anyway - refer to Biarritz game. Shouldn't be picked for England again too soft. Wauldock - good player and tactical kicker; steady Eddie. So not a lot of depth of healthy players for a crunch test match.


13's - Tindall, Hape, Armitage, Tait, Waldouck, Allen, Hipkiss, Lowe.

Same comments for some players mentioned at 12 except I would add that Wauldock is really a 12 who can play 13 at the club level.

Hape is not really a footie player yet in the 15 man code and Jonno won't play him at 13, and nor would Bath if Barkley didn't play 12.

Armitage - I think this is his natural position but he's playing at 15 and last year he had a poor international record there anyway. Coming good as a 15 this season and a worthy backup for Foden, but as Stuart Barnes said in commentary: there's no way Jonno will pick him as a 13; though he picked Monye at 15 last year; so who really knows?

Hipkiss injured. Tait - injured (again). Lowe? Can't remember him to be honest.


All I said was: If Ben Jacobs was eligible they'd be looking at him. With players dropping like flies I'm sure they would have had a look, at least.
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
I have no idea who plays for England these days, nor do I really care - I just hope the lose in every single sporting contest they decide to enter. Is Wilko playing?
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
For real? What about Tait, is he still in the frame? I have to admit that I have no real access to coverage of the premiership and I have nothing against Tindall I promise. But he's a plodder when England need some spark out there. He's also got the look of a man who's about 80 years old.

dobber mentioned Tait; class player but always injured and not available at the minute. Without Tindall the England backline would be like a rudderless ship. The emergence of Flood at 10 will help them closer in but they need Tindall out wider. How long that is going to last I don't know as he is 32 now.

Tait is really the only other valid alternative to Tindall. The others mentioned by dobber are on-paper men as far as ready to go as a 13 in a big test match is concerned.

In that context I said they would have had a look at Jacobs if he were eligible. He never got a look in at the Wallabies but he made Oz A and he's in good form. He's not better than the other guys mentioned but he'd be considered.


Come to think of it: one of the commentators, I think in the HC match Wasps v. Glasgow, said that he would be eligible for England at the start of the 2012/13 season. That is fanciful because he would be 30 then but it suffices to say that he got a mention.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I have no idea who plays for England these days, nor do I really care - I just hope the lose in every single sporting contest they decide to enter. Is Wilko playing?

No, injured and Flood would have started regardless.

Unless they're playing us I always support the Kiwis (although sometimes Ireland or Italy due to underdog status/a bit of blood)

Other than that, anyone who's playing England :)

I usually support the Kiwis because I spent about 8 years there including all my teenage years. Ireland is the exception and sometimes France. If any lowly ranked country threatened to beat them I would probably switch too.

I usually am for anyone playing England also but I usually go for the Poms in soccer.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Tri-Nations not Test rugby - Ford

England's defence coach Mike Ford has dismissed the try-laden Tri-Nations as not being proper Test rugby.



And Ford warned champions New Zealand to be prepared for a clash of styles and an "old-fashioned" showdown at Twickenham on Saturday.

Statistics released by the International Rugby Board this week showed the number of tries scored in the 2010 Tri-Nations increased by 100 per cent, with an average of 5.8 per match.

New Zealand were crowned champions without losing a game and even in defeat to Australia in Hong Kong last weekend, they scored three tries and 24 points.

But England are not interested in "exciting" rugby, with Ford drilling his players to stifle the All Blacks' creative threat at source.

"There were three games in the Tri-Nations that produced an average of 77 points and that for me isn't Test rugby," said Ford.

"Even Saturday, which was a fantastic game, there were still 50 points scored.

"Everyone is talking about how many tries are going to be scored, how quick the rucks are and how exciting it is - but our job defensively is to work out a way to stop that.

"We're pretty confident that we can do that.

"Our mentality has changed defensively. We have a 'no excuse' mentality. It's never a case of us saying: 'They've just scored one so we'll go back and score one at the other end'.

"We want to make this a good, old-fashioned Test rugby game. Whatever you think that means, we know what it means. We're pretty confident about what we can do defensively.

"When the players keep hearing about how exciting it is, deep down they will be putting the shutters up.

"They know that on Saturday, when we haven't got the ball we are going to endeavour to produce one of the best defensive performances ever."

England have tried to shut up shop against the All Blacks before to no avail.

On the summer tour of 2008, England reacted to losing the first Test 37-20 by dropping Charlie Hodgson and picking a midfield of Mike Tindall and Jamie Noon in an attempt to stop Ma'a Nonu.

When Ford is asked about how good a fly-half Dan Carter is, he always uses the example of that second Test and how quickly he spotted England's new defensive pattern and tore it open.

Last November, England gave Ayoola Erinle his first Test start in another reactive selection simply to stop the powerful threat Nonu poses running from inside centre.

On Saturday, the former New Zealand rugby league international Shontayne Hape will fill the inside centre role, having made his Test debut against Australia in the summer.

But 12 months on from that failed Erinle experiment, Ford is convinced England have improved enough to put their plans into practice on this occasion.

On the summer tour to Australia, England responded to their first Test defeat by finding a way to shut down Quade Cooper, which went a long way to helping them snatch a 21-20 victory in Sydney.

The key for Ford's plan is that England cannot afford to wait until next week to learn their lesson - they need to target All Blacks captain and openside flanker Richie McCaw.

"We're miles in front of where we were this time last year," he said.

"We've put things into place so we can hit the ground running on Saturday and make sure that everything comes to fruition.

"Richie McCaw is their talisman and it isn't rocket science to work out that if we can negate his strengths and put him under pressure that it's a big part of their game gone.

"If we can show that he does have weaknesses, it will go a long way to helping us win the game."
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
If that is accurate, I'm revising up my realistic score prediction to about 50-6.

I look forward to it.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Is Mike Ford for real? All I can say is that if that's his attitude, I hope the AB's tear his defensive system to shreds on the weekend. Not test footy my arse.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
We really shouldn't bite on this, but it's too tasty not to. The series between the top 3 sides in the world is not test rugby? Poor bloke.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Ford has a point about the old fashioned style - in the main they have old fashioned players.


The strength of England rugby is not the same as the strength of the SH teams. They are not brought up to play the same kind of rugby as the SH teams are. The Bok boys are a bit different as they have a tradition of 10 man rugby with forward power, but they are changing too.


For 2 or 3 months of the England season their weather and ground conditions are poor and sometimes execrable. There is no dividend for England players in playing an up tempo game of the like we saw in Hong Kong in such conditions. Thus they are schooled from a young age in playing a more conservative game.


As rugby changed, and especially in the professional era, England did well enough and the drift away from the laws as they were written served their ability to slow the game down. Also, more than anyone else, they successfully borrowed from league defensive systems first popularised by the Australians in the 1999 RWC through Muggleton - and not to the point, for a few years they had some of the greatest players of the professional era.


After the 2003 RWC and the great players retired their ranking gradually fell and they assumed a level more or less equal over the years to France, Ireland and Wales. They can still beat any international team on their day, including Australia recently, (and always will), but their type of game is still conservative.


Jonno has introduced players into his team who are different from his old team mates. He has seen the signs in the SH visits to the NH in recent years and the consequences on the crackdown on laws recently and is trying to use players who are more suitable to the current game.


15 Foden and 14 Ashton would fit into the Wallabies team no problemo and Flood would serve as a reserve to the unique QC (Quade Cooper), or Giteau, as well as Barnes could. 11. Cueto, could play any kind of game asked of him and 9. Youngs may prove even before the RWC that he is world class, and he would slot right in also.


Their problem behind the pack for the current high tempo game of the lack crackdown is the midfield. There is not a Guscott, a player born in the wrong hemisphere, nor a Greenwood, a man for all seasons and all places, in the country. As for their pack: it is getting more athletic in some positions and less cumbersome. Even old dog, 2. Thompson, is playing like a pup.


Although the team is slowly evolving away from old-fashioned players they have a regular diet of old-fashioned rugby. Some of their teams like London Irish and Northampton will have a crack but by and large the games are slower and even the new style players will have problems with a diet of 3 fast games in a row.


If the weather is wet though, different story. Kiwis have a couple of months of bad weather each year and know the ropes. The Boks, though depleted, know how to play it in the forwards. But watch out Oz if it's wet at HQ.


But I digress. Fords remarks are silly; not because they are wrong for his team, but that he made them at all.
 
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