Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
wasnt there a vespa in there somewhere too?
All Black training squad for 2012
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Jiggles
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Long time lurker, first time poster.
A couple of things interest me about this squad.
Firstly, who is the back up 7 to McCaw? Hansen is going to have to confront this issue sooner rather than later, as its hard to believe McCaw will last until the next RWC. Does Cane being selected mean that Hansen wants to have a look at him first? If so will we see Cane starting over Latimer at the Chiefs?
Secondly, Who is going to be the 6? For me the All Blacks dominance from 2010 to now has revolved around the ability to dominante the contact zone. Both Thorn and Kaino have largely been the cause of this. So if the same game plan is to be used, a Kaino like 6 must be picked in the long run, which is not Thompson. Vito may be this player, but is Whitelock or Shields this player? I don't think so. I think with Kaino being unavailable, Hansen is having to confront this issue a bit sooner than he would have liked too.
The combination of the backrow is a key selection decision, and it will be interesting which way Hansen goes.
A couple of things interest me about this squad.
Firstly, who is the back up 7 to McCaw? Hansen is going to have to confront this issue sooner rather than later, as its hard to believe McCaw will last until the next RWC. Does Cane being selected mean that Hansen wants to have a look at him first? If so will we see Cane starting over Latimer at the Chiefs?
Secondly, Who is going to be the 6? For me the All Blacks dominance from 2010 to now has revolved around the ability to dominante the contact zone. Both Thorn and Kaino have largely been the cause of this. So if the same game plan is to be used, a Kaino like 6 must be picked in the long run, which is not Thompson. Vito may be this player, but is Whitelock or Shields this player? I don't think so. I think with Kaino being unavailable, Hansen is having to confront this issue a bit sooner than he would have liked too.
The combination of the backrow is a key selection decision, and it will be interesting which way Hansen goes.
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
Never understood the kiwi manlove for weepu, my old man loves him, but from where I sit even on his great days he's a mixed bag, and on his off days, meh. Kiwis usually demand iceman type consistency. Old man henry even made excuses for his inability to play 80, boggling. Even so I'll allow on a good day he is pretty handy, was really just poking a stick at his unreliability.
No Andre Taylor is odd, but barring injury it's inevitable he'll make the ABs Imo, class player.
Other than that good squad, but is there a decent sub for the myth? Or Read?
No Andre Taylor is odd, but barring injury it's inevitable he'll make the ABs Imo, class player.
Other than that good squad, but is there a decent sub for the myth? Or Read?
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
I see Ben Smith has made the training squad. He is all class that guy.
I would reckon that Taylor would get the call up once Kahui is confirmed as gone.
I would reckon that Taylor would get the call up once Kahui is confirmed as gone.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Ali Williams selected? That's a bloody joke. Jarrad Hoeta, Josh Bekhuis, Craig Clarke all have been better performers.
That is true however expecting that the bulk of RWC winners would be ditched after half a season of average Super Rugby form is a bit of a stretch.
I guess the main issue is that I imagine most rugby fans (Kiwi or otherwise) will be quite happy when Ali Williams is given the flick. He's not the most likeable guy around.
I guess the main issue is that I imagine most rugby fans (Kiwi or otherwise) will be quite happy when Ali Williams is given the flick. He's not the most likeable guy around.
Brisbok
Cyril Towers (30)
Fox: Smith gets nod over Taylor for versatility
TOBY ROBSON
Last updated 05:00 16/05/2012
Hurricanes fullback Andre Taylor should look for his outsides, kick a bit longer and keep doing what he's doing on counter-attack, according to All Blacks selector Grant Fox.
Many felt Taylor, who has scored eight Super Rugby tries this season, was a surprise omission from the 35-man squad named on Monday.
But, while Fox said yesterday he hadn't spoken to Taylor since then, he was happy to clarify the thinking behind giving versatile Highlander Ben Smith the nod as the second fullback.
"We need someone from a bench point of view to cover certain positions and when you go 15-plus-seven on match day you can't cover with specialists in every position. You need a bit of utility value," Fox said.
"Ben Smith plays fullback, wing, he's played centre at ITM Cup level ... you need that sort of player."
Fox said it was not always as simple as saying one player was better than another and that Taylor had made a "big impression" on the All Blacks selection panel.
"Like all players there are always things to work on and he probably needs to keep working on distribution," he said. "He's counter-attacked brilliantly and he has a great nose for the try line.
"He hits more than he misses, don't get that wrong, but there's a little work to do in that area of being aware of guys outside him.
"Look, with Andre we are very pleased with what we are seeing, but the bottom line is you can't pick everyone.
"He could be considered unlucky. He's come a long way. Last year he wouldn't have been in discussions, this year he was, but Ben's played very well himself.
"He beats guys too. If you look at his play he almost invariably beats the first tackler. He could probably be more aware of space at times too and that'll be a focus for all of our backs in the camps.
"But Ben offers that utility value and guys like that are pretty important in any squad."
Fox said Israel Dagg was the incumbent test fullback and, although his form had been "in and out", he was a proven test performer.
Taylor gets an early chance to further push his case as the No1 custodian in the country on Friday after being named at fullback last night to play the Brumbies at Westpac Stadium.
However, the feature of the Hurricanes side is the selection of Brad Shields at blindside and the benching of regular first five-eighth Beauden Barrett.
Samoan international Tusi Pisi will wear the No10 jersey for the first time this season in one of two changes to the side that started the 26-20 win over the Highlanders.
Shields gets his second start after playing at No8 against the Cheetahs in week six – when he left the field with a shoulder injury at halftime – while regular No6 Faifili Levave gets a well-earned week off.
There are a further two changes on the bench, with lock James Broadhurst having recovered from a side strain and midfielder Jayden Hayward in for utility back Alapati Leiua.
Reg Goodes has again been preferred at loosehead prop after an encouraging starting debut in Dunedin.
Hurricanes: Andre Taylor, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith (capt), Tim Bateman, Julian Savea, Tusi Pisi, TJ Perenara, Victor Vito, Karl Lowe, Brad Shields, Jason Eaton, Jeremy Thrush, Ben May, Dane Coles, Reg Goodes. Reserves: Motu Matu'u, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, James Broadhurst, Jack Lam, Chris Eaton, Beauden Barrett, Jayden Hayward.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/6928174/Fox-Smith-gets-nod-over-Taylor-for-versatility
TOBY ROBSON
Last updated 05:00 16/05/2012
Hurricanes fullback Andre Taylor should look for his outsides, kick a bit longer and keep doing what he's doing on counter-attack, according to All Blacks selector Grant Fox.
Many felt Taylor, who has scored eight Super Rugby tries this season, was a surprise omission from the 35-man squad named on Monday.
But, while Fox said yesterday he hadn't spoken to Taylor since then, he was happy to clarify the thinking behind giving versatile Highlander Ben Smith the nod as the second fullback.
"We need someone from a bench point of view to cover certain positions and when you go 15-plus-seven on match day you can't cover with specialists in every position. You need a bit of utility value," Fox said.
"Ben Smith plays fullback, wing, he's played centre at ITM Cup level ... you need that sort of player."
Fox said it was not always as simple as saying one player was better than another and that Taylor had made a "big impression" on the All Blacks selection panel.
"Like all players there are always things to work on and he probably needs to keep working on distribution," he said. "He's counter-attacked brilliantly and he has a great nose for the try line.
"He hits more than he misses, don't get that wrong, but there's a little work to do in that area of being aware of guys outside him.
"Look, with Andre we are very pleased with what we are seeing, but the bottom line is you can't pick everyone.
"He could be considered unlucky. He's come a long way. Last year he wouldn't have been in discussions, this year he was, but Ben's played very well himself.
"He beats guys too. If you look at his play he almost invariably beats the first tackler. He could probably be more aware of space at times too and that'll be a focus for all of our backs in the camps.
"But Ben offers that utility value and guys like that are pretty important in any squad."
Fox said Israel Dagg was the incumbent test fullback and, although his form had been "in and out", he was a proven test performer.
Taylor gets an early chance to further push his case as the No1 custodian in the country on Friday after being named at fullback last night to play the Brumbies at Westpac Stadium.
However, the feature of the Hurricanes side is the selection of Brad Shields at blindside and the benching of regular first five-eighth Beauden Barrett.
Samoan international Tusi Pisi will wear the No10 jersey for the first time this season in one of two changes to the side that started the 26-20 win over the Highlanders.
Shields gets his second start after playing at No8 against the Cheetahs in week six – when he left the field with a shoulder injury at halftime – while regular No6 Faifili Levave gets a well-earned week off.
There are a further two changes on the bench, with lock James Broadhurst having recovered from a side strain and midfielder Jayden Hayward in for utility back Alapati Leiua.
Reg Goodes has again been preferred at loosehead prop after an encouraging starting debut in Dunedin.
Hurricanes: Andre Taylor, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith (capt), Tim Bateman, Julian Savea, Tusi Pisi, TJ Perenara, Victor Vito, Karl Lowe, Brad Shields, Jason Eaton, Jeremy Thrush, Ben May, Dane Coles, Reg Goodes. Reserves: Motu Matu'u, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, James Broadhurst, Jack Lam, Chris Eaton, Beauden Barrett, Jayden Hayward.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/6928174/Fox-Smith-gets-nod-over-Taylor-for-versatility
S
Samo
Guest
Yeah, I really like Ben Smith, just hope he can step up to international level when he gets the chance this time - only had a short-lived chance the first time around and didn't really go his way, so will be interesting to see.
Also hoping Vito keeps improving into more of a Kaino (a big ask I know), thought he was coming good late last year and has been pretty good in s15 too but again will be interesting to see what happens during the internationals.
Reackon its going to be a cracker of an international season - really looking foward to it.
Also hoping Vito keeps improving into more of a Kaino (a big ask I know), thought he was coming good late last year and has been pretty good in s15 too but again will be interesting to see what happens during the internationals.
Reackon its going to be a cracker of an international season - really looking foward to it.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Think Cane may turn out to be a pretty decent No7 at international level, At I wonder about Weepu a bit, bastard almost cost us WC final last year with his lazy little fly kick at ball that lead to French try, does god stuff but mixes in some rough lazty touches at times.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Here's the Ireland squad for the tour of NZ. 4 spots are yet to be filled including one for POC if he recovers in time:
Ireland squad: Forwards: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Stephen Ferris, Declan Fitzpatrick, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Donncha O'Callaghan, Peter O'Mahony, Mike Ross, Donnacha Ryan, Mike Sherry, Dan Tuohy, AN Other, AN Other, AN Other.
Backs: Darren Cave, Gordon D'Arcy, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Conor Murray, Brian O'Driscoll, Ronan O'Gara, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo, AN Other.
Ireland squad: Forwards: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Stephen Ferris, Declan Fitzpatrick, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Donncha O'Callaghan, Peter O'Mahony, Mike Ross, Donnacha Ryan, Mike Sherry, Dan Tuohy, AN Other, AN Other, AN Other.
Backs: Darren Cave, Gordon D'Arcy, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Conor Murray, Brian O'Driscoll, Ronan O'Gara, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo, AN Other.
ACR
Desmond Connor (43)
The selections are not very surprising, it is a 35-man training squad after all. The majority of the recent u-20 lads are just there for a bit of experience, they won't be running on the pitch against Ireland; exceptions being Brodie Retallick and Julian Savea (courtesy of injuries to Jane and Kahui). Andre Taylor can consider himself unlucky, Israel is seen as the incumbent and that is just the way it is at the moment. Breaking into the AB's should never be easy though so he'll just have to stick it out.
Speaking of sticking it out, some quality inside backs have been and will be left out. Tamati Ellison is deservedly there ahead of Robbie Fruen, he's played consistently well and has a good work rate and utility value. He won't beat out C.Smith but is a good option for the bench. 12 could go to Nonu or SBW. I think Nonu has a poor attitude, he's not a leader and if things aren't going well he just looks like a grump. In saying that he only has to be a 12 and is bloody talented, a step above his team mates at S15 level in terms of pace and power, when he gets involved. SBW under the tutelage of Wayne Smith is a huge asset (while he remains in NZ). Would be happy to see either at 12, definitely not Carter. In fact Carter would be on my bench, Cruden has been superb at 10 this year and has earned a chance at the 10. Carter has the class, so he remains in the 22. I think Hansen will pick Carter though. Glad to see B.Smith in the set up, wherever he may be involved.
At 9 I think Hansen will pick Ellis with A.Smith on the bench. Ellis because he has experience and Smith on the bench because he has that pass. Smith has plenty to work on, he's not the full package yet, same with K.Barlow. The forwards (as noted above) are sorely going to miss the mongrel of Kaino and Thorn, two HUGE losses. The loosies will be Thomson, McCaw, Read (injury situation/Vito). S.Whitelock and Retallick in the locks, I think we need to move past Ali Williams. Front row will be Woodcock, Hore and O.Franks.
Looking forward to the tests, Ireland are a Leinster dominated side this year I assume... I'd honestly like to see BOD pick up a win against the AB's but it would also add an unwanted column to the AB record so, what happens happens. I think these three tests will be tougher for the AB's than previous years against the Irish, a lot tighter.
Speaking of sticking it out, some quality inside backs have been and will be left out. Tamati Ellison is deservedly there ahead of Robbie Fruen, he's played consistently well and has a good work rate and utility value. He won't beat out C.Smith but is a good option for the bench. 12 could go to Nonu or SBW. I think Nonu has a poor attitude, he's not a leader and if things aren't going well he just looks like a grump. In saying that he only has to be a 12 and is bloody talented, a step above his team mates at S15 level in terms of pace and power, when he gets involved. SBW under the tutelage of Wayne Smith is a huge asset (while he remains in NZ). Would be happy to see either at 12, definitely not Carter. In fact Carter would be on my bench, Cruden has been superb at 10 this year and has earned a chance at the 10. Carter has the class, so he remains in the 22. I think Hansen will pick Carter though. Glad to see B.Smith in the set up, wherever he may be involved.
At 9 I think Hansen will pick Ellis with A.Smith on the bench. Ellis because he has experience and Smith on the bench because he has that pass. Smith has plenty to work on, he's not the full package yet, same with K.Barlow. The forwards (as noted above) are sorely going to miss the mongrel of Kaino and Thorn, two HUGE losses. The loosies will be Thomson, McCaw, Read (injury situation/Vito). S.Whitelock and Retallick in the locks, I think we need to move past Ali Williams. Front row will be Woodcock, Hore and O.Franks.
Looking forward to the tests, Ireland are a Leinster dominated side this year I assume... I'd honestly like to see BOD pick up a win against the AB's but it would also add an unwanted column to the AB record so, what happens happens. I think these three tests will be tougher for the AB's than previous years against the Irish, a lot tighter.
SaderCheif
Jimmy Flynn (14)
I cant agree more with this article.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/our-experts/7011263/Hansens-first-big-call-To-axe-woeful-Weepu
Piri's a great player, but he needs a reality check.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/our-experts/7011263/Hansens-first-big-call-To-axe-woeful-Weepu
Piri's a great player, but he needs a reality check.
S
Samo
Guest
Yeah I agree Athilnaur, he became a god during the WC for one good game and was pretty subdued (this is being generous for his performance in the final) in most of his others I thought. Think it was because the country was bricking themselves after DC went down and Piri's performance against the argies was met with overwhelming relief. Has definitely had some great games over the years but never commanded his place in the team with consistency.
I reackon he'll `come right' for the international season but I'd be happy enough with Ellis, Smith etc. instead - would have liked Perenara to be in the mix too tbh.
I reackon he'll `come right' for the international season but I'd be happy enough with Ellis, Smith etc. instead - would have liked Perenara to be in the mix too tbh.
SaderCheif
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Fair enough. But I suppose you could describe Quade Cooper based on that reply IMO.
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