ACTJRU U18 & ACT Schools XV 2014
- Thread starter Michael Walker
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Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
Agree schools should never forfeit, but unfortunately they now have more kids playing other sports than rugby.
Well you currently have a 1st Division 18's comp with only 6 sides in it. If you look at the 16's Division 1 comp there's only 5 teams in it. The only other 16's Division has 8 teams. So there's 13 sides going to 18's next year. Doesn't bode well for next year and junior rugby in the ACT is already currently struggling.
I'm thinking the $220 per team ARU levy was what we all expected, just a cash grab. Sure the Brumbies have development officers, but running public school cups during the year isn't bringing players into rugby, it's just giving the boys who play league and AFL a day off school.
Well you currently have a 1st Division 18's comp with only 6 sides in it. If you look at the 16's Division 1 comp there's only 5 teams in it. The only other 16's Division has 8 teams. So there's 13 sides going to 18's next year. Doesn't bode well for next year and junior rugby in the ACT is already currently struggling.
I'm thinking the $220 per team ARU levy was what we all expected, just a cash grab. Sure the Brumbies have development officers, but running public school cups during the year isn't bringing players into rugby, it's just giving the boys who play league and AFL a day off school.
Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
Definitely a poor year for Marist. Eddies by the length of the straight this year was my prediction. Grammar were ordinary in the 16's last year, but good on them for at least not making it a one horse race and they only lost 10-7 to Eddies earlier in the season so maybe there is a chance the ACTJRU haven't had the trophy engraved yet.
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
I think this is just a sign of things across the board mate from Wallabies level, club level, country level and of course schoolboy level - Union is struggling big time and has not had the "smarts" to keep up with a VERY well run AFL and Soccer development/marketing system and of course League which is always self serving with a bit of a push from the top.
Gone are the haydays of Schoolboy Rugby I think - there has of course been a decline over the last 8-10 years or so - when do you think the last really great 1st XV comp was around in Canberra - maybe Saia/Anthony's grade at Eddies maybe...
Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
Maybe, but I think you'd have to look back a lot further to when we had at least 8 teams who were able to compete. The schools are no longer Rugby focused and clubs are really struggling. Vikings for example as the largest junior club couldn't put together a Div 1 side this season.
Then you look at the problems at Easts seniors. They have no junior sides above 13's and you wonder why they struggle to field colts and lower grades. Club rugby here will struggle if the decline continues. Clubs like Royals and Queanbeyan can't rely on finding grade talent from Marist and SEC respectively if it doesn't exist, and that certainly won't fill all grades anyway.
Unless the Brumbies want to get stuck into schools and marketing like AFL and soccer do I can see things continuing to decline. Their focus is on rep teams, not about player numbers. I can understand that to a degree but what use is investment in under 12 rep teams etc.
At the end of the day we all want to see our kids play junior rugby, then hopefully senior rugby and enjoy the experience and friendships that brings. Who cares if it's 1st grade or 4th grade senior rugby, or the Brumbies, Wallabies etc?
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Pretty much hit the nail on the head mate - I think what we are seeing at a 1st grade level and even down to 4th grade - clubs like Vikings are able to buy (I hate to be this guy lol) a 1sts side nearly - so you have guys sitting in honestly 3rd or 4th grade that could be playing 2nd/1st grade at another club.
As you said if the schools keep declining then QBN wont be able to get the players from Eddies to compete, Royals from Marist, Easts from Grammar etc etc etc
Its honestly a tough thing to think about - HOPEFULLY the NRC comp does well and it gives these young players who might think of going to AFL/Soccer etc a taste of maybe one day playing a higher level of rugby because they can see the guys from there clubs playing....I honestly dont know and dont think its enough but its something.
At the end of the day the ARU need to inject millions of dollars into the school systems/grass roots rugby - dont I honestly dont think they have the cash to do so...Aus has prob seen a slight lift over the last 12 months but we still only just have our heads above water....
Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
I also think the ARU are happy to see the big GPS schools in NSW and QLD do their development for them at no true cost. The NSWRU were pretty confident they didn't need to pay the $220 per team levy and therefore lose development officers. Who needs a development officer when you just send a few guys round with clipboards to watch GPS rugby. The ACT and surrounding areas doesn't even rate a blip on the ARU's radar.
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Rugby Union has always been a High, Upper/middle class sport - and in this day and age sadly the rich get richer and the poor get poorer in these class brakets and it is simply flowing down into the sport itselfs - we could talk about this all day, how the ARU had no real plan/development coming into the professional era, how they are only now putting together the tent poles etcetc....
Lets just hope we keep developing some great natural talent in ACT Rugby Union and things like the NRC strengthen it - there is nothing better the 1st XV Rugby in my mind - Would never want to see it die in the ass and have these guys playing AFL and Soccer....how boring...
angrydog
Jimmy Flynn (14)
In regards to the apparent demise in quality of ACTJRU and schools rugby I have written quite extensively about this topic before (with considerable objection from some may I add).
No 8, I would have to argue that some of the powerhouse sides from Eddies during the early-mid 2000's with the likes of the Fainga's did NOT make for a great COMP but in fact only added to and created some of the issues we now face. Total dominance and constant rumor about scholarships etc really only turned many from rival schools and clubs off the proposition of playing St Edmunds teams stacked with talent. It may have also created a false sense of security for the ACT and Brumbies believing champion players from eddies would continue to roll of the conveyor belt. Sadly this has not occurred and presently we are seeing the Brumbies with barely any home grown talent.
The last time a strong ACT comp existed was many years ago, possibly late 90's or very early 2000's. The demise of the ASC due to a number of schools going co-ed and others, except for eddies, expanding their focus away from Rugby has seen that comp go by the way side and the regular production of rep and top level local players from certainly Eddies, Marist and Dara dissipate to a trickle. Schools such as Grammar and Trinity (formerly St Patricks) have struggled for consistency for a long time.
The clubs have always been a hot and cold proposition and without good support from the ARU or Brumbies they are really relying on having good coaches and volunteers. Many years ago, before the current ACT college system, Rugby was played widely amongst ACT secondary colleges and they produced many fine players who gained higher honors. Anyone old enough to remember this like me would realize this has not been the case since probably the early 90's.
Until the ARU and Brumbies put the ACT on the radar again and really put steps in place to see development of players, clubs and schools the present trend will continue and I am willing to bet that schools such as Grammar and Marist will eventually have a greater focus on AFL or soccer which will only make Rugby in the ACT weaker still.
A sad tale indeed
No 8, I would have to argue that some of the powerhouse sides from Eddies during the early-mid 2000's with the likes of the Fainga's did NOT make for a great COMP but in fact only added to and created some of the issues we now face. Total dominance and constant rumor about scholarships etc really only turned many from rival schools and clubs off the proposition of playing St Edmunds teams stacked with talent. It may have also created a false sense of security for the ACT and Brumbies believing champion players from eddies would continue to roll of the conveyor belt. Sadly this has not occurred and presently we are seeing the Brumbies with barely any home grown talent.
The last time a strong ACT comp existed was many years ago, possibly late 90's or very early 2000's. The demise of the ASC due to a number of schools going co-ed and others, except for eddies, expanding their focus away from Rugby has seen that comp go by the way side and the regular production of rep and top level local players from certainly Eddies, Marist and Dara dissipate to a trickle. Schools such as Grammar and Trinity (formerly St Patricks) have struggled for consistency for a long time.
The clubs have always been a hot and cold proposition and without good support from the ARU or Brumbies they are really relying on having good coaches and volunteers. Many years ago, before the current ACT college system, Rugby was played widely amongst ACT secondary colleges and they produced many fine players who gained higher honors. Anyone old enough to remember this like me would realize this has not been the case since probably the early 90's.
Until the ARU and Brumbies put the ACT on the radar again and really put steps in place to see development of players, clubs and schools the present trend will continue and I am willing to bet that schools such as Grammar and Marist will eventually have a greater focus on AFL or soccer which will only make Rugby in the ACT weaker still.
A sad tale indeed
angrydog
Jimmy Flynn (14)
A quick disclaimer to my previous post, and that is that in my view the ACTJRU is still producing some great talent. However, with the Brumbies and ARU not seeming to care to much on developing the ACT these talents are having to work harder and harder than ever to reach higher honors. If the standards of Rugby in the JRU are not maintained, or ideally increased this talent will be harder again to find and develop.
Not really a poor year for Marist, seeing as they had the highest pints difference up until last round (I did the adding myself). But are now suffering from some depth issues with apparently up to 5 players out of their First XV and a similar number injured from their 2nd XV
Secondly, Grammar made the Grand final in the 16's last year meaning that they were not exactly "Average", especially as they beat Marist twice and Eddies once also in the season and finals...
Rogebylover
Frank Row (1)
What was the game like?
Who were the best on the field etc?
I missed the game unfortunately.
Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
I totally agree, and on your last point there are now far more kids at both Marist and Grammar choosing another winter sport over rugby.
Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
For and against just means a team may have got to wallop Vikings (who dropped down to Div 2) or another wrongly graded club or school by a 100 points or so.
Depth issues with three sides to choose from. I'm sorry, but this irks me. I would say however even Marist and SEC and trying to fill 3 teams in three divisions with far less players than in previous years where each of their 3 sides would have individually had a squad of around 22 players. Now they have to move players through divisions to make up numbers. We had to delay a game against a school side this year until later in the afternoon just so their 2nds could come bench for them.
As for Grammar 1st 16's last year I know they made the GF, but only had 2 sides in the 16's unlike SEC and Marist.
End of the day team numbers were down by about 10% last year and this year its another 10%+ down. I hope it changes, but I'm not holding my breath.
Keiran
Sydney Middleton (9)
From what I saw the usual suspects. Alex Verass had another blinder as did the usual suspects (Moala Ritchie etc). Great open play, but Royals have a pack which is pretty dominant. Wests looked good in stages, but they aren't the side they were a few years ago when they gave the 18's comp a good shake.
Yes but if there is 3 teams that are up there, then they should get a similar for and against vs. the teams like Vikings should they not? Unfortunately Eddies did not produce the same results against teams like Wests that Marist did, which could be an indicator of the level of skill difference (despite losses to St. Edmunds on 2 different occasions).
And Yes, depth issues. If you ask someone at Marist, you will know they they are suffering from serious injury issues throughout opens this season, and if you want another example then take St Edmunds who just forfeited their firsts against Royals?
And as for the Grammar 16's they in fact had only one team, but is that not an indicator of a good skill bank? No they Might not have the depth, but they made it to the GF without all the reserves in the world to pull on...
I do agree though, about number dropping from year to year. I also hope that it turns around
In the lineout
Allen Oxlade (6)
My son is heading off to Grammar next year (yr11), can't wait to be part of this rugby thread....
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