ACT - Stand alone ASC

[happycat]

When I say ASC I am referring to the full organisation, which includes radford, burgmann, trinity etc which are the teams i was referring to when saying the ASC would be dominated by four schools, as is the ACT competition. I would hazard a guess that these teams would provide less opposition than the club sides to grammar eddies marist and daramalan.

If by stand along ASC you mean a 4 team competition consisting of the four top school sides, that would be quite detrimental to ACT rugby as a whole as clubs are left even further behind without quality opposition to compete against

 

[angrydog]

When I say ASC I am referring to the full organisation, which includes radford, burgmann, trinity etc which are the teams i was referring to when saying the ASC would be dominated by four schools, as is the ACT competition. I would hazard a guess that these teams would provide less opposition than the club sides to grammar eddies marist and daramalan.

If by stand along ASC you mean a 4 team competition consisting of the four top school sides, that would be quite detrimental to ACT rugby as a whole as clubs are left even further behind without quality opposition to compete against

Happycat, this is exactly what I am suggesting in my opening post. The competititon would commence with four teams contesting a Div 1 and the other schools playing in Div 2 and 3. In time if those schools developed a stronger rugby profile they may consider entry to the ASC Div 1. I dont know where the concern about this being detremental to the club sides comes from, this format of the ASC existed for years and years before the schools entered the U18 comp in the early 2000's. The club sides existed fine back then and I am sure they would again today.

I am not trying to affect or disadvantage the clubs, the point of my thread is to ensure the schools who have strong rugby programs maintain the ability to play against quality opposition. I can see why people are concerned about the affect that the schools leaving the u18 competition but really is that only consideration schools should have, or should they have the interests of their students at the front of their mind?

 

[No.8]

Just been glancing over this thread - I played schoolboy rugby and junior club rugby in the ACT from about 1999-2006 and the level of rugby then was great - the level of 1st XV was fantastic - Eddies and Marist having some great 1st XV teams during this time, with some fantastic players.

I have over the last couple of years seen abit of the junior rugby + 1st XV and it seems to be at a level or 2 below what it once was - would this be correct in saying this? Has the level, skill, size of players etc gone down acouple of levels in the last 4,5,6 years?

 

[angrydog]

Just been glancing over this thread - I played schoolboy rugby and junior club rugby in the ACT from about 1999-2006 and the level of rugby then was great - the level of 1st XV was fantastic - Eddies and Marist having some great 1st XV teams during this time, with some fantastic players.

I have over the last couple of years seen abit of the junior rugby + 1st XV and it seems to be at a level or 2 below what it once was - would this be correct in saying this? Has the level, skill, size of players etc gone down acouple of levels in the last 4,5,6 years?

No 8, where/who did you play for? What is it exactly that you think has declined since you played? Not sure the size or skill levels have declined but in comparison to other states like NSW and QLD where unfortunately scholarships are common place these attributes have probably stood still. Those other states with their scholarships at private schools and sports high schools are in my opinion at another level and the results at state championships over the last few years would support that.

 

[No.8]

No 8, where/who did you play for? What is it exactly that you think has declined since you played? Not sure the size or skill levels have declined but in comparison to other states like NSW and QLD where unfortunately scholarships are common place these attributes have probably stood still. Those other states with their scholarships at private schools and sports high schools are in my opinion at another level and the results at state championships over the last few years would support that.

Hey mate - Vikings and one of the private schools - I am really more asking the question more than anything - I had a few years away from the game and have slowly come back to it over the last 2-3 years and just from what I have seen the level doesnt seem as high now than what it was - I dunno if its just because I have now played senior rugby that schoolboy level doesnt look as skillful or the players dont look at big - but I guess when I was playing there were players such as Saia Faignaa, Anthony, Villi, Julian Salvi, Tyron Smith, Jack Lam, Lala Lam, Jack Kennedy, Chris Harkins - just to name a few and there was a whole heap more from Eddies, Marist, Grammar.

As I said above I guess it was more just a simply question of is the level as high as it was 4,5,6,7 years ago...is ACT Schoolboy rugby still upto the standard it once was...do teams from other states still fear playing some of the schools...

 

[The Captain]

angrydog,

I really do like the idea of ASC having its own competition similar to GPS, etc. But it is something that ACTRU and ASC are going to have to work on now to make it work as a competition in the future.

What I mean is, schools are going to have to continue to compete with clubs for the next few years as the weaker school (Burgmann, Trinity, Radford) develop their teams so they are at a high enough level to compete with MCC, SEC and CGS.

This development of schools won't happen if it's a smaller competition (eg. four teams repeatedly playing each other), but will happen against clubs until they reach a certain stage of competitiveness and victory.

Contrary to spikybeaver or happycat, clubs' development wont be affected as the main course of development occurs up to U16s, and we are only talking about an ASC-only comp for U18s (and maybe U16s).

Dara, Grammar, Marist and Eddies will continue to be strong no matter what, so the only consequence of continuing to play clubs until other schools are competitive enough is that they may not be suitably challenged.
Perhaps more friendly matches against interstate teams (GPS, APS, CAS) could satisfy this?

The return of an ASC only comp is something that really needs to happen in ACT rugby. The passion and rivalry that occurs in school comps is incredible and ACT rugby would greatly benefit, as would the competiting teams who would grow as rugby institutions.

On a side note, it would also be great to see other independent schools, MacKillop, St Francis Xavier, the new John Paul College, and the proposed Googong Anglican school also be incorporated into the ASC system.

 

[angrydog]

angrydog,

I really do like the idea of ASC having its own competition similar to GPS, etc. But it is something that ACTRU and ASC are going to have to work on now to make it work as a competition in the future.

What I mean is, schools are going to have to continue to compete with clubs for the next few years as the weaker school (Burgmann, Trinity, Radford) develop their teams so they are at a high enough level to compete with MCC, SEC and CGS.

This development of schools won't happen if it's a smaller competition (eg. four teams repeatedly playing each other), but will happen against clubs until they reach a certain stage of competitiveness and victory.

Contrary to spikybeaver or happycat, clubs' development wont be affected as the main course of development occurs up to U16s, and we are only talking about an ASC-only comp for U18s (and maybe U16s).

Dara, Grammar, Marist and Eddies will continue to be strong no matter what, so the only consequence of continuing to play clubs until other schools are competitive enough is that they may not be suitably challenged.
Perhaps more friendly matches against interstate teams (GPS, APS, CAS) could satisfy this?

The return of an ASC only comp is something that really needs to happen in ACT rugby. The passion and rivalry that occurs in school comps is incredible and ACT rugby would greatly benefit, as would the competiting teams who would grow as rugby institutions.

On a side note, it would also be great to see other independent schools, MacKillop, St Francis Xavier, the new John Paul College, and the proposed Googong Anglican school also be incorporated into the ASC system.

Thanks for your support Captain. You have perhaps articulated this much better than I did, I possibly wasnt clear in explaining the ASC would only be viable been run at the u18 level and sides up to u16 would still compete with the clubs for ACTJRU premierships.

Realistically there is a long way to go until an ASC comp happens again as the strengths of some of these other schools is not where it would need to be. Co-ed schools generally means it is more difficult for schools to reach the right participation levels to ensure they have strong sides in both 1st and 2nd XV level. Ideally at u18 level you need to be able to put out a decent 3rd XV to make sure a schools comp is really really healthy. Dara is already struggling with this to some degree and Trinity would be the next best hope but I dont think they have ever put out a 3rds since they opened.

A concerted effort would need to be made by the schools and ACTRU for this to eventuate, but who knows...it would be great if it did though and if the schools you mentioned which have recently opened or are planned to open adopt rugby as one of their winter codes then a great comp could one day be a reality.

 

[exISA]

Hey mate - Vikings and one of the private schools - I am really more asking the question more than anything - I had a few years away from the game and have slowly come back to it over the last 2-3 years and just from what I have seen the level doesnt seem as high now than what it was - I dunno if its just because I have now played senior rugby that schoolboy level doesnt look as skillful or the players dont look at big - but I guess when I was playing there were players such as Saia Faignaa, Anthony, Villi, Julian Salvi, Tyron Smith, Jack Lam, Lala Lam, Jack Kennedy, Chris Harkins - just to name a few and there was a whole heap more from Eddies, Marist, Grammar.

As I said above I guess it was more just a simply question of is the level as high as it was 4,5,6,7 years ago.is ACT Schoolboy rugby still upto the standard it once was.do teams from other states still fear playing some of the schools.

That is pretty much it.. the longer I had left school the more the game looked not as sharp after playing senior rugby - especially now coaching . I dont think the skill level declines at all , its just getting older and being used to playing a higher senior level that changes this.

 

[Titch]

Before people get excited, this list is winners of the ASC comp only not the ACTJRU. I realise that the winners of those two comps may differ in several years.

Thanks for you help Angrydog. I'll try to contact the schools and see what there responses are.