ACT - Stand alone ASC

[angrydog]

Due to some clubs in the ACT U18 comp being unable to field sides every week the time has come for ASC member schools to draw a line in the sand and look at re-commencing the ASC as a stand alone competition.
Not being able to get a game each week is doing nothing for the development of players at these schools who field a 1st, 2nd and usually 3rd XV side each week without fail. Sadly it is often the schools best players in the 1st XV's which have to do without a game due to some of the clubs not being able to raise the numbers to put a side out on the park.

I acknowledge that some of the schools are also not as strong as those such ass Eddies and Marist but I feel that should a stand alone comp in the ASC re-commence then some of the others may in time be able to get stronger. If Marist, Eddies, Grammar and Darra were to play each other three times each in a rolling draw of nine rounds I am sure the benefits would be obvious for the players of those schools. A 2nd and 3rd XV comp including Radford, Trinity, Burghman and maybe even Mackillop alongside the four stronger schools would also serve to develop their rugby programs. In time schools such as Trinity and Burghman may contemplate a place in the 1st XV comp should they have strong enough sides.

I am keen to get peoples thoughts. Having schools like Marist and Eddies having a bye to a forfeit is a joke and must stop. Either a comp gets organised whereby these schools can get a guaranteed game each week against quality opposition of those schools might begin looking outside Canberra for the opposition they need and deserve. I am sure the ISA or similar would welcome strong regular oppostion. Schools in those comps travel as far as Orange and I am sure the 2 1/2hr trip to Canberra would not worry them if it strengthens their competitions.

I apologise to those invloved in clubs which do get a side out every week and those who work tirelesly to try and get teams out. Unfortunately those of you who fit this category are being seriously let down and in the process letting down some of the schools you oppose out in the middle.

 

[Wood Rat]

coppied from replies on another thread
I saw your post in the ACT Junior thread, it must be hard maintaining intensity in a small catchment especialy with teams walking away from commitments, The ACT teams competed strongly in the state cup ( I hope the roumers of gear retrieved from a non performing teamwere just that.. roumers)
Such conduct if true will only disenfranchise communities and could be a contributer to the problems
and

and would be a good addition to a broader competition

would you feal a little dirty playing against teams schools you have berrated in the past or would you be able to accept where they are at and move on?

 

[Merrow]

It's only Marist and Eddies that have three sides in the local comp, so maybe the answer is that they join another competition, such as the ones you spoke of, and leave the other school sides to battle along with the local club sides. They're obviously a step above every one else. Radford and Burgmann would not be able to compete effectively in a schools based competition, they aren't in the 1st division anyway, so your point really doesn't make a lot of sense. Join the GPS comp in Sydney if you want to get some competition, or don't you feel that you could dominate that comp. As a long time supporter of club rugby in Canberra, I have seen so many club kids given full scholarships to go to the rugby schools. Maybe the answer is to let the kids decide who they want to play with, instead of forcing them to join the school side if they want to play rugby.

 

[angrydog]

It's only Marist and Eddies that have three sides in the local comp, so maybe the answer is that they join another competition, such as the ones you spoke of, and leave the other school sides to battle along with the local club sides. They're obviously a step above every one else. Radford and Burgmann would not be able to compete effectively in a schools based competition, they aren't in the 1st division anyway, so your point really doesn't make a lot of sense. Join the GPS comp in Sydney if you want to get some competition, or don't you feel that you could dominate that comp. As a long time supporter of club rugby in Canberra, I have seen so many club kids given full scholarships to go to the rugby schools. Maybe the answer is to let the kids decide who they want to play with, instead of forcing them to join the school side if they want to play rugby.

You cant honestly tell me that byes are good for the comp. The schools ASC comp ran well on its own for a long time, I dont know why it ever stopped in the first place.

As far as scholarships go, I dont support that in any way and it should be prevented at all costs. Kids should always get the choice to play what they want, but if they do so then they should commit to turning up every weekend. That is my gripe, it's not fair on kids at these schools who will turn up every week but their opponents dont.

I like the sarcasm about Marist or Eddies dominating GPS...

 

[Warwick]

Try matching up with the Sydney GPS, CAS and ISA schools it may involve travel from Sydney to Canberra and visa versa but the opportunity and the quality of opposition will lift rugby standards inthe ACT. Equally, the some of the Sydney schools have "dropped the ball" so to speak and no longer provide effective opposition in at least one competition that shall remain nameless. If changes could be made to include ACT schools such as Eddies, Marist, Canberra Grammar and Dara a renewed interest could benefit Sydney and ACT rugby. Its only a though and a lot of people will be against for reasons of History, tradition and travel.

 

[exISA]

this has been a topic of conversation even back in my school days. Its just simply not viable for a school like Marist or Eddies to join the Sydney ISA or GPS comps. They can't just join for Rugby , they have to move all their sporting programs over.

 

[Meeks]

This issue has been going on for years and years. The main reason is from U12 up club teams get decimated when a lot of their players go off to privet schools, and because they put little effort into their B teams prior to this all of sudden they struggle to compete. Senior cubs don’t care because they get the players back after they finish school. Coming from coaching at a junior club a few years ago and having some degree of success, the issue is this: School teams have 50+ players to choose from, get to train 3-4 days a week, have gym programs and the like. The good players get additional training at the brumbies add to the fact they are all mates who socialise day in day out etc...The club coaches are typically Dads who put their hand up and are given a team 2 weeks prior to pre-season knockout and usually do not get all their players until the second round. Therefore, the club teams are always on the back foot and playing catch up.

Is the solution kicking out club teams, I think not. I can remember Grammar about 10 years ago refusing to play eddies because they feared getting hurt, then they put effort into their rugby program and now they won the whole thing. Vikings and Wests played out last year’s final. Wests usually have strong teams in the junior clubs and Vikings are improving as are uni norths. The u14 Vikings have not lost a game in 3 years and only lost one game on their recent New Zealand trip. So let us not be too quick in throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The solution part A is to bring the clubs up to standard with help from the senior club, by taking a whole club approach. My solution would be to have 4-5 specialist club coaches (set piece, fitness, skills, defence, and attack.) Train the u11-12 together, u13-14 together and 15-16 together and they rotate through these areas, and then spend time in their teams, then run opposed sessions. Put a lot more emphasis on having two teams in each age group, to allow the boys who are not up to the Black division play at a level they can compete at. That been said when they do have two teams the A team typically hoard 4-5 reserves when they could be playing in the B team making them stronger. The A team should select two players from B team each week for their reserves, 1 back and 1 forward this would mean their best players are always on the field not have to give little Johnny not so good a full game because he had a half game the week before and the B team is competitve. Yes, I know it is a risk but how often do you see three injuries in a game in junior rugby? Finally when a team is struggling throw club resources at it to bring them up to standard, not let them struggle week in week out. Kids will keep turning up each week when they are competitive but when they are demoralised each week they lose interest quickly, which is simply not good enough. There are other things that need improving such as the registration and pre-season programs but I’ll save that for another time.

The solution part B is Brumbies (ACT rugby) to host a tournament for u12, 14, 16, and 18’s and invite schools from Sydney, Brisbane, and NZ, Melb, Japan etc. to come and play. The club teams and teams from Southern Inland/South Coast can form an ACT schools team, enable the school teams to play higher quality opposition, and allow Brumbies to scout and recruit. Perhaps do this instead of sending teams to the NSW championship. There are similar tournaments taking place not sure, why it could not be done? This will give the better school teams a better class of rugby and another tournament to try to win.

The solution part C start a summer 7’s comp, league players would play in it, which hopefully attract them to rugby.

The other option is and I do not see taking off due to club pride, is the ACTJRU selecting an U18 north and U18 South team to play in the U18 comp with the reaming players to play in the div 2 and 3.

So let us not yell from the sidelines about the problems, get involved on the club boards and make changes to make thing better for ACT rugby.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

This issue has been going on for years and years. The main reason is from U12 up club teams get decimated when a lot of their players go off to privet schools, and because they put little effort into their B teams prior to this all of sudden they struggle to compete. Senior cubs don’t care because they get the players back after they finish school. Coming from coaching at a junior club a few years ago and having some degree of success, the issue is this: School teams have 50+ players to choose from, get to train 3-4 days a week, have gym programs and the like. The good players get additional training at the brumbies add to the fact they are all mates who socialise day in day out etc.The club coaches are typically Dads who put their hand up and are given a team 2 weeks prior to pre-season knockout and usually do not get all their players until the second round. Therefore, the club teams are always on the back foot and playing catch up.

Is the solution kicking out club teams, I think not. I can remember Grammar about 10 years ago refusing to play eddies because they feared getting hurt, then they put effort into their rugby program and now they won the whole thing. Vikings and Wests played out last year’s final. Wests usually have strong teams in the junior clubs and Vikings are improving as are uni norths. The u14 Vikings have not lost a game in 3 years and only lost one game on their recent New Zealand trip. So let us not be too quick in throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The solution part A is to bring the clubs up to standard with help from the senior club, by taking a whole club approach. My solution would be to have 4-5 specialist club coaches (set piece, fitness, skills, defence, and attack.) Train the u11-12 together, u13-14 together and 15-16 together and they rotate through these areas, and then spend time in their teams, then run opposed sessions. Put a lot more emphasis on having two teams in each age group, to allow the boys who are not up to the Black division play at a level they can compete at. That been said when they do have two teams the A team typically hoard 4-5 reserves when they could be playing in the B team making them stronger. The A team should select two players from B team each week for their reserves, 1 back and 1 forward this would mean their best players are always on the field not have to give little Johnny not so good a full game because he had a half game the week before and the B team is competitve. Yes, I know it is a risk but how often do you see three injuries in a game in junior rugby? Finally when a team is struggling throw club resources at it to bring them up to standard, not let them struggle week in week out. Kids will keep turning up each week when they are competitive but when they are demoralised each week they lose interest quickly, which is simply not good enough. There are other things that need improving such as the registration and pre-season programs but I’ll save that for another time.

The solution part B is Brumbies (ACT rugby) to host a tournament for u12, 14, 16, and 18’s and invite schools from Sydney, Brisbane, and NZ, Melb, Japan etc. to come and play. The club teams and teams from Southern Inland/South Coast can form an ACT schools team, enable the school teams to play higher quality opposition, and allow Brumbies to scout and recruit. Perhaps do this instead of sending teams to the NSW championship. There are similar tournaments taking place not sure, why it could not be done? This will give the better school teams a better class of rugby and another tournament to try to win.

The solution part C start a summer 7’s comp, league players would play in it, which hopefully attract them to rugby.

The other option is and I do not see taking off due to club pride, is the ACTJRU selecting an U18 north and U18 South team to play in the U18 comp with the reaming players to play in the div 2 and 3.

So let us not yell from the sidelines about the problems, get involved on the club boards and make changes to make thing better for ACT rugby.

Absolutely. It should actually be adopted nationwide s a development tool in terms of participation. Having it Summer means no competition with our primary competitors, allows for established players to keep fit and would appeal to those looking for a contact alternative to Touch Football.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I'd rather hang around a sunburnt oval all day in summer watching a rugby 7's tournament than a cricket game.

Exception is Boxing Day Test (after time out for the Sydney Hobart Start).

Summer is the ideal time for Rugby 7's. Great pre-season S&C stuff for the 15's players, and time for those 7's specialists to prosper in a rather uncluttered sporting landscape.

 

[angrydog]

This issue has been going on for years and years. The main reason is from U12 up club teams get decimated when a lot of their players go off to privet schools, and because they put little effort into their B teams prior to this all of sudden they struggle to compete. Senior cubs don’t care because they get the players back after they finish school. Coming from coaching at a junior club a few years ago and having some degree of success, the issue is this: School teams have 50+ players to choose from, get to train 3-4 days a week, have gym programs and the like. The good players get additional training at the brumbies add to the fact they are all mates who socialise day in day out etc.The club coaches are typically Dads who put their hand up and are given a team 2 weeks prior to pre-season knockout and usually do not get all their players until the second round. Therefore, the club teams are always on the back foot and playing catch up.

Is the solution kicking out club teams, I think not. I can remember Grammar about 10 years ago refusing to play eddies because they feared getting hurt, then they put effort into their rugby program and now they won the whole thing. Vikings and Wests played out last year’s final. Wests usually have strong teams in the junior clubs and Vikings are improving as are uni norths. The u14 Vikings have not lost a game in 3 years and only lost one game on their recent New Zealand trip. So let us not be too quick in throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The solution part A is to bring the clubs up to standard with help from the senior club, by taking a whole club approach. My solution would be to have 4-5 specialist club coaches (set piece, fitness, skills, defence, and attack.) Train the u11-12 together, u13-14 together and 15-16 together and they rotate through these areas, and then spend time in their teams, then run opposed sessions. Put a lot more emphasis on having two teams in each age group, to allow the boys who are not up to the Black division play at a level they can compete at. That been said when they do have two teams the A team typically hoard 4-5 reserves when they could be playing in the B team making them stronger. The A team should select two players from B team each week for their reserves, 1 back and 1 forward this would mean their best players are always on the field not have to give little Johnny not so good a full game because he had a half game the week before and the B team is competitve. Yes, I know it is a risk but how often do you see three injuries in a game in junior rugby? Finally when a team is struggling throw club resources at it to bring them up to standard, not let them struggle week in week out. Kids will keep turning up each week when they are competitive but when they are demoralised each week they lose interest quickly, which is simply not good enough. There are other things that need improving such as the registration and pre-season programs but I’ll save that for another time.

The solution part B is Brumbies (ACT rugby) to host a tournament for u12, 14, 16, and 18’s and invite schools from Sydney, Brisbane, and NZ, Melb, Japan etc. to come and play. The club teams and teams from Southern Inland/South Coast can form an ACT schools team, enable the school teams to play higher quality opposition, and allow Brumbies to scout and recruit. Perhaps do this instead of sending teams to the NSW championship. There are similar tournaments taking place not sure, why it could not be done? This will give the better school teams a better class of rugby and another tournament to try to win.

The solution part C start a summer 7’s comp, league players would play in it, which hopefully attract them to rugby.

The other option is and I do not see taking off due to club pride, is the ACTJRU selecting an U18 north and U18 South team to play in the U18 comp with the reaming players to play in the div 2 and 3.

So let us not yell from the sidelines about the problems, get involved on the club boards and make changes to make thing better for ACT rugby.

,


Meeks,

some very good points here anf if some or all of these strategies were adopted then no doubt the divide between clubs and schools (granted thats its not every year) would be far less. My main point is that it's not fair that teams of any kind be they school or club miss out on a game due to others teams forfeiting. At the black divison especially, this is rediculous and measures need to be put in place whereby this does ont happen. I think from your comments you would probably agree to a large extent?

 

[Titch]

Angrydog & Meeks,

It seems both of you are experts in ACT schools rugby and I would like to ask you some questions. I collating information on schools rugby across Australia and I can't seem to find too much info for ACT compare to other states such as GPS, CAS, ISA etc.

I was wodnering if you could provide some details to the following questions:

Brief history of ACT school rugby, including when the ASC comp started (and ended?) and the list of the winners.
Is ACTJRU U18 is the replacement to ASC comp? Eddies, Marist, Dara and Grammar are the only schools participants? Who winners and the runners-up since the inception?

Much appreciated for your assistance.
Titch

 

[angrydog]

Angrydog & Meeks,

It seems both of you are experts in ACT schools rugby and I would like to ask you some questions. I collating information on schools rugby across Australia and I can't seem to find too much info for ACT compare to other states such as GPS, CAS, ISA etc.

I was wodnering if you could provide some details to the following questions:

Brief history of ACT school rugby, including when the ASC comp started (and ended?) and the list of the winners.
Is ACTJRU U18 is the replacement to ASC comp? Eddies, Marist, Dara and Grammar are the only schools participants? Who winners and the runners-up since the inception?

Titch,

I am unsure of exactly when the ASC commenced. I would guess it was probably in the mid to late 1960's, the ASC itself still exists so to speak with other sports still competing for ASC titles. Back then the Rugby aspect of the ASC would have been contested by St Edmunds, Grammar, St Patricks Gouburn (now Trinity) and possibly even Chevallier. Later on in the early/mid 70's Daramalan and then Marist entered the mix and for some years those six schools competed until Chevallier (after going co-ed) withdrew in the mid 80's.

For a long time the Rugby was then contested between the 5 other schools with Eddies, Marist and Dara being the most dominant. In the mid 90's Radford College attempted entry to the 1st XV competition. This was not successful and they soon reverted back to 2nd XV. This went on for some time until St Patricks ceased to exist and went co-ed becoming Trinity College. Dara during the early 90's also went co-ed and over time the impact began to be felt with Eddies and Marist becoming more and more dominant as the number of sides being put out by Dara and Trinity decreased. The smaller enrolments of boys at Dara, Trinity and before the Chevallier meant they fielded less teams and could not match Marist and Eddies with all boys enrolments of over 1600 and 1200 respectively.

Around the early 2000's every thing went pear shaped and a decision was made to intergrate the schools into the ACTJRU which they all played in anyway up to the u16 level. It was only in the seniors where the schools played their own competition. As far as I know the ASC was/is still played for within the ACTJRU but rather than a set draw week in week out between the schools it became the scattered draw we have today with the schools are also playing against clubs.

As far as winners it is hard to say exactly. No doubt Eddies and Marist would have won the most with Eddies being dominant between those two. I know that the 70's was a real mixed bag with Dara, Marist, Eddies and Pats all being strong and winning competitions. The 80's saw Dara and Eddies competing with Eddies winning most years. 1988 was a big year for Marist being undefeated. The early 90's was a Marist golden age with several undefeated teams and numerous ASC and Waratah Shield victories.

In the late 1990's Eddies began an active campaign (although strongly denied) of offering 'Edmund Rice' scholarships and overnight a school with hardly a polynesian in sight had a 1st XV full of them. Between 1997 - 2006 they dominated both the ASC and Waratah Shield competition to the extent where firstly, they and all other ACT schools were removed from the Waratah shield and then secondly, local schools and long time competitors like Canberra Grammar on occasion forfited to Eddies due to safety issues.

I think Marist may have won in 2006 and 2010 and then Grammar finally cracked one off in 2012!

To get accurate records you would be best served by calling probably Marist and Eddies and asking for records from their archives. I know in the late 80's and 90's there were several years where there were 2 and 3 way ties for the premiership. The ASC was always run as a 2 round competition with first past the post being declared the winner.

The demise of the ASC as a stand alone competition is a tale of the effects of co-ed schooling on sports programs such as Rugby (Dara, Chev and Pats) and secondly, the poison which is the uneven offering of scholarships by one team in their pursuit of the impossible...admission to the GPS in Sydney (Eddies).

Grammar has seen something of an re-emergence in recent years winning possibly their first ASC title in 2012. Aside from this, Marist who seem to offer every sport on earth and generally win most of them other than rugby have remained competitive without setting the world on fire and, after a brief hiatus Eddies appear to again to be active in the 'Edmund Rice' scholarship area with names like Tomane appearing in this years 1st XV to ensure their dominance, mandatory selection in the Aus. Schools team and strong rugby history continues.

Dara and Trinity still play rugby however Trinity has not been able to climb out of the 2nd XV competition and Dara are spasmodic with their form.

 

[angrydog]

Titch,

I am unsure of exactly when the ASC commenced. I would guess it was probably in the mid to late 1960's, the ASC itself still exists so to speak with other sports still competing for ASC titles. Back then the Rugby aspect of the ASC would have been contested by St Edmunds, Grammar, St Patricks Gouburn (now Trinity) and possibly even Chevallier. Later on in the early/mid 70's Daramalan and then Marist entered the mix and for some years those six schools competed until Chevallier (after going co-ed) withdrew in the mid 80's.

For a long time the Rugby was then contested between the 5 other schools with Eddies, Marist and Dara being the most dominant. In the mid 90's Radford College attempted entry to the 1st XV competition. This was not successful and they soon reverted back to 2nd XV. This went on for some time until St Patricks ceased to exist and went co-ed becoming Trinity College. Dara during the early 90's also went co-ed and over time the impact began to be felt with Eddies and Marist becoming more and more dominant as the number of sides being put out by Dara and Trinity decreased. The smaller enrolments of boys at Dara, Trinity and before the Chevallier meant they fielded less teams and could not match Marist and Eddies with all boys enrolments of over 1600 and 1200 respectively.

Around the early 2000's every thing went pear shaped and a decision was made to intergrate the schools into the ACTJRU which they all played in anyway up to the u16 level. It was only in the seniors where the schools played their own competition. As far as I know the ASC was/is still played for within the ACTJRU but rather than a set draw week in week out between the schools it became the scattered draw we have today with the schools are also playing against clubs.

As far as winners it is hard to say exactly. No doubt Eddies and Marist would have won the most with Eddies being dominant between those two. I know that the 70's was a real mixed bag with Dara, Marist, Eddies and Pats all being strong and winning competitions. The 80's saw Dara and Eddies competing with Eddies winning most years. 1988 was a big year for Marist being undefeated. The early 90's was a Marist golden age with several undefeated teams and numerous ASC and Waratah Shield victories.

In the late 1990's Eddies began an active campaign (although strongly denied) of offering 'Edmund Rice' scholarships and overnight a school with hardly a polynesian in sight had a 1st XV full of them. Between 1997 - 2006 they dominated both the ASC and Waratah Shield competition to the extent where firstly, they and all other ACT schools were removed from the Waratah shield and then secondly, local schools and long time competitors like Canberra Grammar on occasion forfited to Eddies due to safety issues.

I think Marist may have won in 2006 and 2010 and then Grammar finally cracked one off in 2012!

To get accurate records you would be best served by calling probably Marist and Eddies and asking for records from their archives. I know in the late 80's and 90's there were several years where there were 2 and 3 way ties for the premiership. The ASC was always run as a 2 round competition with first past the post being declared the winner.

The demise of the ASC as a stand alone competition is a tale of the effects of co-ed schooling on sports programs such as Rugby (Dara, Chev and Pats) and secondly, the poison which is the uneven offering of scholarships by one team in their pursuit of the impossible.admission to the GPS in Sydney (Eddies).

Grammar has seen something of an re-emergence in recent years winning possibly their first ASC title in 2012. Aside from this, Marist who seem to offer every sport on earth and generally win most of them other than rugby have remained competitive without setting the world on fire and, after a brief hiatus Eddies appear to again to be active in the 'Edmund Rice' scholarship area with names like Tomane appearing in this years 1st XV to ensure their dominance, mandatory selection in the Aus. Schools team and strong rugby history continues.

Dara and Trinity still play rugby however Trinity has not been able to climb out of the 2nd XV competition and Dara are spasmodic with their form.

 

[angrydog]

It's a shame the general perception of the community is that St. Edmunds are offering sporting scholarships. In reality a scholarship for any sport has not been given out in years (Not sure what happened in the past). People need to get the facts before they comment on these rumours.

Yes, it is unfortunate however, the deeds of the past are not easily forgotten and the appearance of very good players within the side in the final years of schooling only adds fuel to the fire and speculation begins again.

I probably should have been clearer in my post and expressed that the most significant factor in the demise of the ASC as a stand alone competition was that of schools going/being forced to go co-ed. Should the 'bolstering' of the eddies side in the late 90's and early 2000's have occured during the days of the schools being strictly all boys and those schools remaining all boys, it is likely they may have all followed suit and the competition may have grown equally rather then the situation whereby the divide (in terms of rugby standards) between they and eddies only grew bigger. As it is this did not occur and eddies streaked ahead of the pack at a time when many were actually going backwards. Marist was possibly the only exception but realisticaly it stood still and only in the odd year did it really pose a threat or defeat eddies. The resurgence of Grammar last year was great thing and hopefully one which continues. It would be great to see Dara also re-emerge to be the force it was in the 80's and parts of the 90's but looking at their current participation levels this is unlikely.

 

[angrydog]

Angrydog & Meeks,

It seems both of you are experts in ACT schools rugby and I would like to ask you some questions. I collating information on schools rugby across Australia and I can't seem to find too much info for ACT compare to other states such as GPS, CAS, ISA etc.

I was wodnering if you could provide some details to the following questions:

Brief history of ACT school rugby, including when the ASC comp started (and ended?) and the list of the winners.
Is ACTJRU U18 is the replacement to ASC comp? Eddies, Marist, Dara and Grammar are the only schools participants? Who winners and the runners-up since the inception?

Much appreciated for your assistance.
Titch

Tich,

following your post and questions I have done some research for you. Below is a list of winners of the ASC as best as I can work out so far. The many blanks will need help filling from others who may be in the know. I have established that the ASC first commenced in 1959 with St Edmunds, St Patricks, Grammar and St Micheals Inveralochy being the first schools as members. St Michaels closed in 1971.

1959 - 1974 ? (From my reading I gather St Patricks were very stong in this period)
1974 - St Edmunds
1975 - Marist
1976 - St Patricks
1977 - 1978 ?
1979 - Marist
1980 - St Patricks
1981 - 1983 ?
1984 - 1986 - St Edmunds
1987 ?
1988 - Marist
1989 - 1990 ?
1991 - Marist / St Edmunds* (Shared)
1992 - Marist
1993 - Marist
1994 - Marist
1995 - St Edmunds
1996 - Marist / Daramalan* (Shared)
1997 - 2005 - St Edmunds?
2006 - Marist
2007 - 2009 ?
2010 - Marist
2011 - ?
2012 - Grammar

Far from complete I know but it's a start. If any other history buffs can add or correct to this list that would be great.

 

[angrydog]

Tich,

following your post and questions I have done some research for you. Below is a list of winners of the ASC as best as I can work out so far. The many blanks will need help filling from others who may be in the know. I have established that the ASC first commenced in 1959 with St Edmunds, St Patricks, Grammar and St Micheals Inveralochy being the first schools as members. St Michaels closed in 1971.

1959 - 1974 ? (From my reading I gather St Patricks were very stong in this period)
1974 - St Edmunds
1975 - Marist
1976 - St Patricks
1977 - 1978 ?
1979 - Marist
1980 - St Patricks
1981 - 1983 ?
1984 - 1986 - St Edmunds
1987 ?
1988 - Marist
1989 - 1990 ?
1991 - Marist / St Edmunds* (Shared)
1992 - Marist
1993 - Marist
1994 - Marist
1995 - St Edmunds
1996 - Marist / Daramalan* (Shared)
1997 - 2005 - St Edmunds?
2006 - Marist
2007 - 2009 ?
2010 - Marist
2011 - ?
2012 - Grammar

Far from complete I know but it's a start. If any other history buffs can add or correct to this list that would be great.

Before people get excited, this list is winners of the ASC comp only not the ACTJRU. I realise that the winners of those two comps may differ in several years.

 

[Spiky Beaver]

See the problem is, angrydog, allowing the ASC to 'stand alone' would be detrimental to developing talent in those boys whose families dont have the resources to send them to private schools. correct me if i'm wrong but i believe the rugby union code revolves highly around equality among young players regardless of the socio-economic status.

not to mention the massive increase in underground, illegal scholarships that would start to float around with all that talent suddenly excluded from the First grade division, but thats another matter for another night old chap

 

[happycat]

I totally agree and think what angrydog is saying really is quite ridiculous. The clubs are fielding quality sides these days and to think any of the school teams outside the div 1 could compete with any of the larger schools is frankly quite daft.

Please only bring rational and reasonable argument to these forums 'angrydog' for the sake of my time wasted reading your posts.

 

[The Quade Cooper]

Angry dog, from what i remember a couple of years ago i believe the Grand Final was contested by two club teams (Wests vs Vikings) which was one of the best club games i've ever seen in recent years and it was an improvement with the disgrace of the ASC teams with the all in brawl by St. Edmunds and Marist which in hindsight was called off after the brawl. So im my opinion i see club rugby thriving this year and especially with teams like Uni-Norths and Vikings contesting well i quite frankly see the ACTJRU improving by the year!

 

[angrydog]

Not sure what has evoked such a strong response to this thread so late after it was initially raised but, I thank you anyway. I will respond to the three posts above together to save time.

Spikey Beaver, I dont see why the schools should be made to feel any guilt about the welfare of the clubs if their performance may be affected due to a lack of competition from those clubs. Its not the concern of schools to be concerned about opposition players socio economic backgroud etc. It is the obligation of the schools to ensure that students are provided with strongest level of oppostion for the development of their players (the obligation comes with the price of the fees I guess)

Clubs will continue to develop players with or without the opposition of schools. I agree with Rugby being egalitarian and all that and being open to all comers but differently to the clubs, the schools are in a postion where they offer a multitude of winter sports and if the quality of a sport is on the decline for whatever reason then inevtiably boys will look elsewhere to other codes to play where success may be more prevelant.

With regards to scholarships, their not 'illegal' as I understand. The issue with scholarships is more an ethical problem. There is a definite distinction there. I do not support scholarships and would not endorse them being offered in any competition.

Happycat, three of the four bottom teams in u18 Div1 are club sides. The other is ADFA leaving the top four being schools. This makes your point a little confusing and seemingly lacking some rationale. As far as me wasting your time, simple solution...if you see my name dont read my post.

Quade Cooper, I agree the West v Vikings game was a cracker, however sadly it is rare that clubs make/play in the final at the U18 level. Secondly, the incident between Marist and Eddies has nothing at all to do with my proposition of a stand alone ASC comp and has even less to do with the quality of club sides in the present day. Can you explain the link?

Either way my opinion is still largely the same. I will watch with interest to see how the club sides hold up as the season goes by and hopefully they stick in there and turn up each week regardless of results.

To clarify I did offer an apology in my original post to those who are involved in clubs who bust their guts to keep them going. I am not trying to offend them but rather motivate those who let them down to put in a bit more for everyones sake.