ACT Brumbies v NSW Waratahs, GIO Stadium 31 March

[wamberal]

Can we expect to see Foley/Beale bombing to Folau's wing incessantly?

I hate people who go back and resurrect old posts. However, it is Easter.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Wamb, it is totally irrelevant to quote that post in the circumstances of the game. I have already acknowledged the positives for the Tahs in being able to adjust their game after the early exit of Folau. I just don't know why you bothered.

 

[Froggy]

Tough, dour sort of a game very typical of Tahs/Brumbies. Tahs ball control was pathetic in the first half, has to be fixed and quickly if they are to be in it when they play the grown ups. A few random thoughts;
I thought Mcaffery was the best player on the paddock, really impressed me.
The Tahs set piece is really improving. The scrum matched a much heavier Brumbies scrum, and the lineout is really becoming a weapon. Fitzpatrick throws well, and Simmons, Hanigan and Holloway are all excellent jumpers
Pocock was very good and will get better with game time. On the other hand Naisarani was invisible.
I think Gordon is a long way ahead of Powell. Powell is solid, but no more.
Speight was pretty unimpressive.
I though Newsome made the most of his time on there. He was pretty ordinary last time, but good to see young players learning and improving.
Finally, pretty chuffed to see the Tahs win that one without Folau, the team leaders (Hooper, Foley & Beale) really stepped up and showed he way.

 

[wamberal]

Wamb, it is totally irrelevant to quote that post in the circumstances of the game. I have already acknowledged the positives for the Tahs in being able to adjust their game after the early exit of Folau. I just don't know why you bothered.

Fun. Something that is in almost total absence on this forum. And might I add that you should consider the possibility that the Tahs never planned to use the high kick anyway. Who knows? Not you, that is for sure.

 

[mst]

To me, Godwin looked the best back the Brumbies had last night. Kuridrani's form is ominous for the Wallabies, although I'd probably still pick him for the first test.

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I think Goodwin highlighted what the issue with Kuridrani's form and why many have been calling for him to be dropped. You could see the running Goodwin injected in to the back-line that you would expect from a centre like Kuridrani. The irony is we have better runners than Goodwin that can easily play in the centres.

Lilo as a second playmaker in his current form was always going to take away from the ability to run through the centres and that is more been pronounced with Kuridrani's poor form.

As I mentioned back in week 3 the issues we are seeing now were already becoming evident (extracts);

Lilo predominantly has played @12 the last few years but if you watch him his is still light on weight and bulk (about 5kgs lighter than the past) and is still not strong in contact so inside centre could be an issue for him depending on the team they play.

Consider current centres particularly outside centres and there are not many "straightline" runner like Kuridrani. Most are now more dynamic or played at 12 to better effect with a dynamic outside centre. I am unsure if he can off load and he rarely passes so its limiting. Compare him to the Kiwi centres who are dynamic runners who can offload and pass.

On top of the selection issues is the fact that their attack and in general game plan is too basic and predictable. This is with the addition of a new attack coach in Hewat.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Tough, dour sort of a game very typical of Tahs/Brumbies.
I thought Mcaffery was the best player on the paddock, really impressed me.
The Tahs set piece is really improving. The scrum matched a much heavier Brumbies scrum, and the lineout is really becoming a weapon.
Pocock was very good and will get better with game time. On the other hand Naisarani was invisible.
I think Gordon is a long way ahead of Powell.
Speight was pretty unimpressive.

Froggy, if you rate that as a dour game, get set for a really uninspiring shit-fight next week for Brumbies v Reds.

McCaffrey was extra busy but has little impact in contact. To me, Pocock was best on ground. For the Brumbies, Allan Ala'alatoa was also a standout.

Powell ve Gordon was a much of a muchness. I think they are both quite good players and will get better. Certainly, they were better than Ruru in the Rebels game.

Yeah, Henry's not as good as he was, and his miss on Taquele and the late hit on Beale were both instrumental in turning the game to the Tahs.

 

[Gnostic]

McCaffrey was extra busy but has little impact in contact.

I'd have to differ with you on this one BR, McCaffrey has been getting over the gain line very well, with footwork if not dominance in contact, though he at least holds his own whilst still maintaining the workrate. I would contrast that with Wells & Hanigan who have massive workrate but little else. Hanigan in particular I held my piece on all last year, but this year I have to say I see clearly the criticism of his game, with him barely ever making the gain line let alone threatening it. The set piece work is his best game component combining well with Simmons.

McCaffrey has been very good in every game I have seen. I don't think Pocock was best on field for the Ponies, though maybe the embarrassing adulation from the commentators has been looking at his performance through jaded eyes, I'd have given that gong to AAA or Hawera.

 

[Derpus]

Froggy, if you rate that as a dour game, get set for a really uninspiring shit-fight next week for Brumbies v Reds.

McCaffrey was extra busy but has little impact in contact. To me, Pocock was best on ground. For the Brumbies, Allan Ala'alatoa was also a standout.

Powell ve Gordon was a much of a muchness. I think they are both quite good players and will get better. Certainly, they were better than Ruru in the Rebels game.

Yeah, Henry's not as good as he was, and his miss on Taquele and the late hit on Beale were both instrumental in turning the game to the Tahs.

Pretty sure Ruru played all of about 3 minutes.

 

[Scrubber2050]

TK's Wallaby spot must be in serious doubt.

This was the game for him to play well (and he left a lot out there).

Great to see Poey running around getting a pilfer or two or three (whatever).
He will only get a lot bettererer

 

[Hawko]

Froggy, if you rate that as a dour game, get set for a really uninspiring shit-fight next week for Brumbies v Reds.

McCaffrey was extra busy but has little impact in contact. To me, Pocock was best on ground. For the Brumbies, Allan Ala'alatoa was also a standout.

Powell ve Gordon was a much of a muchness. I think they are both quite good players and will get better. Certainly, they were better than Ruru in the Rebels game.

Yeah, Henry's not as good as he was, and his miss on Taquele and the late hit on Beale were both instrumental in turning the game to the Tahs.

I thought McCaffrey had a really good game, the backrower who didn't show up was Naisirani. AAA and Pocock were good too, the rest were just going through the motions. It looks like they've figured that the backs are pants so they're just going to do the minimum.

Powell seems to be hot and cold. Saturday night he was cold, I thought Gordon outpointed him decisively.

Speight's supposedly a good mate of Beale's, they've roomed together on tour for the Wallabies. If I had a mate like that I'd defriend him pretty quickly. That tackle was very late and straight into Beale's injured ribs. It was very poor form in my book.

Simmons brain-fart penalty was actually him trying to get across the line to reach a crooked throw. The referee stopped blowing crooked throws after about 20 minutes and virtually every Brumbies lineout in the second half was not straight. Simmons steal on 78 mins was probably the only straight one. The Tahs lineout has become a real weapon this year, Simmons penalties aside, and it will be interesting to see how it goes against the Kiwi's, especially the Crusaders.

Robertson is developing nicely and his contribution round the park is so under-rated. He clearly outpointed Sio, who I thought was very quiet. There's a reason he's in my fantasy team, he just keeps quietly accumulating tackles and involvements. His scrum work seems to have improved too from the poor work we saw in the early rounds. And Ryan made a big contribution from the bench, I cringed when he came on and I watched the next scrum through interwoven fingers, but he was part of a dominant finishing scrum. Who'd have thought?

 

[Brumby Runner]

My comment on McCaffery is that he has little impact in contact. I stand by that. He does have a bit of fancy footwork as pointed out by Gnostic, and he doesn't actually give ground when tackled. He just doesn't make his presence felt by dominating a tackle. And I agree, though I never drew the comparison at all in my comment, that he is better value than Hanigan and Wells, though both had pretty good games against the Brumbies. McCaffery looks to me to be more of a link man than your usual No 6.

I also agree with Hawko that Naisarani had an off day on Saturday. Maybe carrying a niggle? Or disharmony in the camp?

I heartily disagree with Hawko about the crooked throws at the lineout, though. The two that were called were as straight as many that are allowed. They were both directed above the Jumper's head but were not out and out on the outside shoulder. One other from the Tahs was much the same, but all in all, I thought they were mainly all straight enough to be contested. Simmons' penalty was precisely what we've come to expect from him in his career and was blatant, as was Hanigan's early in the match. No Brumby was penalised for holding the jumper because none of them jump on opposition throw-ins.

I have no comment on Roberston, but will note that Allan A was probably the only prop who put in a full shift in the game.

 

[Gnostic]

Thinking about McCaffery the player he probably reminds me most of in his play for the Brumbies is Mowen, without Mowen's excellent lineout skills. Neither were dominant in contact as such but got over the gain line be depowering the contact by using footwork to avoid that outright power contest. I see that as sensible and playing to strengths. My point is that as you conede BR McCaffery doesn't give ground when tackled and is 99% of the time at least on the gain line when tackled if not over it and advancing the ball. Hanigan and Wells for all their workrate lose the contest in contact, surrender ground in the tackle (attack or defence) or immediately go to ground under pressure and virtually never make the gain line. Hanigan's only redeeming feature IMO is his excellent lineout work. Workrate stats must be the reason behind the selection of Wells.

McCaffery has surprised me this year.

As for Simmons, I was firmly in the what is the point camp until I had a few drinks with a mate from Qld who had some involvement with the Reds a few years ago. Our chat made me look again and I can see where his value lies to a team and he is the best signing the Tahs made last year. His scrum work and lineout are close to the best in Australia (as I was told) and what he doesn't offer around the park should be covered by balanced selections in his locking partner and 6, and that is where the Tahs struggle with their roster as discussed. As for the dumb penalty, stupid maybe, but then again its a bit like the fun and games in the scrum with props getting penalised for fun and games, is the first one "stupid" or are they testing the waters? I know Simmons is a recidivist and that is why I was firmly in the negative for him previously but generally he isn't giving away multiple penalties like that a game, so my views have changed somewhat.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

I thought the tahs bench was key to the win. Will Miller with his pilfer, and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) with the scrum dominance. That kid has a future.

I also thought the brumbies looked more dangerous with Godwin on. It was also great to see pocock back to scratch straight away.

 

[Pfitzy]

Brumbies game plan is fucked. They've got a bunch of big lumps in the pack, but never seem to want to run it in close. Meanwhile, Pocock charges into two forwards and gets smacked.

McCaffrey was abrasive an into everything. Pocock got a couple of steals. The other forwards were absent.

Kuridrani was invisible, Hawera kicks it too much, and their only try was a kick through. Didn't break the line much, and then not for long. Speight gets a fucking free ride from so many people on this forum, despite his repeated and glaring defensive deficiencies at both Super and Wallaby levels. That late tackle was the mark of someone with serious temperament issues.

Speaking of wings: how good is Newsome? Could be a good bet for Wallaby bolter this year. Pace, decent size, hits hard, and nice hands. Knows how to run a line and look for his support. Also filled the role of jumping for the high ball in a similar vein to Folau. Its no surprise that he's from country NSW, not far from where Pfitzy grew up, so of course he also knows what's best for rugby.

Tahs pack was a bit of a mixed bag. Some key mistakes from Holloway, Hanigan, and Simmons in particular, but simply a more effective unit through getting the fuck out of the way at the right times.

Best viewing was Miller's cameo; tore what was left of the Ponies' gaping arsehole to shreds when he came on.

Gordon was very important to this team, despite his trigger-step, but that is an issue with many of these young halfbacks.

Taqele simply ran into the space he was given, and once he's got a head of steam up, he's hard to stop.

Roll on moondogs.

 

[Pfitzy]

I also thought the brumbies looked more dangerous with Godwin on. It was also great to see pocock back to scratch straight away.

The issue being Godwin and Lilo are good 12s, but Hawera is an inconsistent 10.

 

[mst]

The issue being Godwin and Lilo are good 12s, but Hawera is an inconsistent 10.

I think he is still trying to untangale himself.

He came as a an elusive running 10 and got Larkhamised. Now he has no plan to play to. Like any 10 the backline needs to suit him and he hasn't had that yet.

 

[Hawko]

The issue being Godwin and Lilo are good 12s, but Hawera is an inconsistent 10.

People keep telling me how good Lilo is at 12. But on his Saturday night performance he looked totally anonymous. When Godwin looks better than you did things are pretty grim.

I can guarantee you that unless there is major change, the Brumbies will not score a try off set piece that's half as good as Naiyaravoro's second. They just don't have the cattle or the nous. Take a bow Chris Malone, that was a cracker.

Lots of criticism of the Tahs performance forgets that it was playing the Brumbies in Canberra. I don't know what it is, but the place just seems to turn every Tahs/Brumbies derby into a slogfest! Every time! People who disagree - can you please nominate the year that the Tahs went to Canberra and played scintillating rugby, scoring 50+ points? I'm nominating never as the most likely answer.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Both teams seem more intent on not losing through making mistakes than winning through good, attacking rugby. It usually even gets worse when the Reds come to town. Saturday's game was simply scintillating compared with some Brumbies/Reds games I've been to.

I agree with many comments here about how poor the Brumbies are and how it looks like they have no clear game plan to play to. But remember, for all that, they were still in with a shot to draw the match in the last play of the game. Not a whole lot between the two sides at the end. Even then, with that last ineffective maul, Abel had the ball well secured at the back when Simmons (I think - someone in headgear) collapsed the maul at the front. Another ref could have seen a very different outcome to that piece of play.

 

[Slim 293]

The issue being Godwin and Lilo are good 12s, but Hawera is an inconsistent 10.

I don't believe Lilo has been good in any position this year, especially on the weekend............

He might need some time off the bench.

 

[fatprop]

Bit of trivia from kick & chase, Simmons got the Tahs player of the match. Phipps said it was as much about his work before the game in sorting out their defensive lineout

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