ACT 1st Grade Vs Sydney 1st grade

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

G'day,

I would be interested to know this forums thoughts on where a 1st grade ACT side would sit in the Sydney competition. Is it around the same level, a little lower?

 

[Bruce Ross]

G'day,

I would be interested to know this forums thoughts on where a 1st grade ACT side would sit in the Sydney competition. Is it around the same level, a little lower?

You might have the chance to get some enlightenment on this tomorrow. Sydney Uni is bringing three Grades plus First Colts down to play Tuggeranong Valley in trials. Uni is missing all their Super 15 players but they will also be absent for most of the Shute Shield.

You can't read much into trial form but it should give some indication of relative standards.

 

[Parra GM]

Didnt they try that in the late 80's through to mid 90's off and on by having a Canberra team in the Shute Shield that never made the semi's. Then went up and made gf of Brisbane comp one year (and may even have won it)

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Didnt they try that in the late 80's through to mid 90's off and on by having a Canberra team in the Shute Shield that never made the semi's. Then went up and made gf of Brisbane comp one year (and may even have won it)

I'm pretty sure the Canberra team made the GF in Sydney. 1995?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

G'day,

I would be interested to know this forums thoughts on where a 1st grade ACT side would sit in the Sydney competition. Is it around the same level, a little lower?

I believe it is a lot lower. I don't think a Canberra team could have matched last year's Warringah team with McCabe, Sheehan, Holmes *2, Harris, Lipon, Beau Robinson etc and the Rats didn't make the semis.

 

[Empire]

I would've backed Vikings and Queanbeyan to be quite competitive actually...

Until there is a real impetus from the Brumbies to develop local rugby, (sorting their own side and correlating crowd numbers wouldn't be a bad start) the status quo will remain however. Sydney is a far bigger pond, with clubs that can afford to pay players.

That said, Vikings could probably purchase a team that would make the strongests clubs in Australia weep. They really are that economically strong. Without knowing a whole lot about other clubs financial states, they may even be the richest sub-super rugby club in the country. At present, in the current John I Dent, I wouldnt think they'd need to invest quite so much into players to be in the hunt for a premiership, whereas as many shute shield clubs would.

 

[FTS]

You might have the chance to get some enlightenment on this tomorrow. Sydney Uni is bringing three Grades plus First Colts down to play Tuggeranong Valley in trials. Uni is missing all their Super 15 players but they will also be absent for most of the Shute Shield.

You can't read much into trial form but it should give some indication of relative standards.

I think vikings are missing a lot of players as well through injury and academy/brumbies commitments.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Results from yesterday's matches between Tuggeranong Vikings and Sydney University:

Colts: 10-40 (score may not be exact)

Thirds: 5-40

Seconds: 10-40 (score may not be exact)

Firsts: 19-36

 

[Bullrush]

I would've backed Vikings and Queanbeyan to be quite competitive actually...

Until there is a real impetus from the Brumbies to develop local rugby, (sorting their own side and correlating crowd numbers wouldn't be a bad start) the status quo will remain however. Sydney is a far bigger pond, with clubs that can afford to pay players.

That said, Vikings could probably purchase a team that would make the strongests clubs in Australia weep. They really are that economically strong. Without knowing a whole lot about other clubs financial states, they may even be the richest sub-super rugby club in the country. At present, in the current John I Dent, I wouldnt think they'd need to invest quite so much into players to be in the hunt for a premiership, whereas as many shute shield clubs would.

I've heard that they are the richest club in the southern hemisphere....

 

[Empire]

Well, the 'Vikings group' would be up there with the most profitable club groups in Australia, no idea on the whole southern hemi.
The rugby club, which I understand is a seperate entity (albeit intrinsically linked) to that group. As such, it has a healthy budget.

Good to see a separation of interest - very well run clubs, and Vikings obviously benefit greatly from it. I'd personally like to see them running the Brumbies. It'd be good for rugby union as a whole in ACT.

 

[Canon76]

Well, the 'Vikings group' would be up there with the most profitable club groups in Australia, no idea on the whole southern hemi.
The rugby club, which I understand is a seperate entity (albeit intrinsically linked) to that group. As such, it has a healthy budget.

Good to see a separation of interest - very well run clubs, and Vikings obviously benefit greatly from it. I'd personally like to see them running the Brumbies. It'd be good for rugby union as a whole in ACT.

Surely you are kidding aren't you. The vikings group have suffered some financial set backs recently and I would then think that for the next year or so that the rugby team will be average. I would think that the vikings are going to run 5th or 4th this year.

 

[Empire]

Have you some insight we don't have?

I think the fact they were able to pick up Chisholm shopping centre fairly quickly indicates that they are reasonably well endowed financially. Nearly $20 million for that place alone. Not usually the actions of a club in financial difficulties, or without money.
Smart move too, diversification from alcohol and gambling isnt a bad idea.

I'd be surprised if they went too poorly, if they get all their expected players back (including those with injuries, Parahi comes to mind), they will be quite handy. Our club will not be taking them for granted at any rate.

 

[territorian]

I mean no ofence to you Empire as you have had some great posts here and you are a great supporter of ACT rugby, but every year or so these thoughts come up and eventually the reality hits that ACT rugby on a whole as far as clubs are concerned isn't competitive with Sydney.
Similar happens with Qld supportes who get a rush of blood and sprout off at how competitive their clubes would be - they aren't and they never have been yet they get all gooyey when their top club wins the annual event not accepting that they actually play against Sydney Uni third grade side. It's great to be patriotic but Qldrs can be so unbendingly narrow minded in that way and i would hate the ACT'ers to become like that - we are made of more logical stuff than that.
Vikings killed the Brisbane comp when they competed there and then if I am correct ended up about middle of the Sydney comp then somehow ended up playing again in Canberra.
I think most rugby supporters would love to see two or three of the Canberra teams incorporated into the Shute Shield but common sense says they will be at the bottom for a considerable time until at least they can build their player stocks to compare with the Sydney clubs.
My guess right now is that if Vikings, Eagles or Queanbeyan plays the Shute Shield this year middle of the table would be a reasonable expectation.
And I think you are right about running the Brumbies - you need a some financial organisation doing it as financial results will be what determines success and if that happened the current nepotism and hotch potch management affair would be out the door in a flash.

I also think it would be a great opportunity for the ARU to take the various competitions we have around the country, particularly on the east coast and make some form of hierarchial structure with promotion and relegation.
I think a system of two or preferably three competitions along the east coast between Melbourne and Brisbane incorporating all major clubs would be very beneficial. Again travelling costs and blindness will see it never happens.

 

[Empire]

Fair call - don't worry, I'm not kidding myself. Queanbeyan and Tuggeranong (wouldn't bother even thinking about other clubs at present!) could be competitive, but would have some way to go to challenge the likes of Randwick, Uni etc.

However, it's irrelevant, because neither will compete in the Shute shield. I'd prefer to see the ACT comp's standard lifted, and clubs stable, and developing local talent in their own respective areas.

This, however could take a very very long time.

Be nice if local guys could compete in the Waratah shield... that wouldn't hurt local development either.

 

[territorian]

There was a mooted combined ACT side to compete in this years Shute Shield. That I think would be a good idea however, what about the clubs who have recruited players who may for instance be in the Brumbies Academy and hey get selected to this combined team. The clubs would get no flow on effect and I can't see how ACT rugby would be the better as these players in the ACT team would therefore not gettheir new skills back to the grassroots of ACt rugby.

 

[Empire]

Yea, thats not really a conducive arrangement, couldn't see how clubs would agree to that!

Anyway, the key point is for the JID to go anywhere, it needs good leadership from the brumbies, and a long term approach from the clubs. Until then Sydney will still be the top dog in terms of competition. Might not ever be as strong across all clubs, but the top teams should be as good as any in the country.

 

[Informer]

Results from yesterday's matches between Tuggeranong Vikings and Sydney University:

Colts: 10-40 (score may not be exact)

Bruce

Any report on the colts game? How did the new boys go?

 

[Bruce Ross]

Results from yesterday's matches between Tuggeranong Vikings and Sydney University:

Colts: 10-40 (score may not be exact)

Bruce

Any report on the colts game? How did the new boys go?

I'll try to get some details for you tomorrow, Informer.

 

[Canon76]

Yea, thats not really a conducive arrangement, couldn't see how clubs would agree to that!

Anyway, the key point is for the JID to go anywhere, it needs good leadership from the brumbies, and a long term approach from the clubs. Until then Sydney will still be the top dog in terms of competition. Might not ever be as strong across all clubs, but the top teams should be as good as any in the country.

That would then mean that the JID is going to stand still or go backwards. I do not think that the brumbies really care abou the local competition, they stood back years ago (when they had the chance) to stop clubs poaching off each other and just bringing in teams and they did nothing. In the last two years have the local clubs received any funding from the brumbies ? What have they done to improve the local comp ? Thats right that dropped the ACT brand so that they could appeal to a wider market and bring in a victoria team to compete in the first round. How will the brumbies improve the local comp ?

 

[Empire]

Yep. Pretty much, where do we go now?

Hence why some of us would like to see the Vikings running the Brumbies. Seems to be a bit more switched on with business...