Academies - 2014

[Hugh Jarse]

There has been a change in approach from the ARU.

Instead of one academy with Sydney and Brisbane groups, the Pulveriser is reverting to having the Soup franchises run their own academies.

This may be a bit of a challenge to the Force and Rebels, but the Tah's, Ponies and Reds should be able to manage this comfortably.

Our recent performances at Junior RWC have been below expectations. Many have blamed the centralised academy system as a major factor.

This thread to debate the optimal academy structure and management, competitions and obviously the players, coaches and performances.

Can the Academies exist as a competition in their own right, or are they a pre-season/off season concept?

Can a young fella do pre-season with Club Colts/Grade AND Academy as well as U20 Jnr RWC committments?

Is too much rugby a good thing for these young men?

Discuss.

 

[Caputo]

What I understand it to be is that each academy will be 15 in size, a concern is that the ARU will need another Academy.

The ARU will need an academy for 7's Rugby. There may be an additional requirement where they have an interest in a player for national purposes best kept out of the Super Academy.

An example was TPN post schoolboy rugby in 2004 a good flanker but the ARU identified him as a Prop/Hooker and was given a development contract by the ARU. Richard Harry was another who was converted from a flanker.

 

[Quick Hands]

There has been a change in approach from the ARU.

Instead of one academy with Sydney and Brisbane groups, the Pulveriser is reverting to having the Soup franchises run their own academies.

This may be a bit of a challenge to the Force and Rebels, but the Tah's, Ponies and Reds should be able to manage this comfortably.

Our recent performances at Junior RWC have been below expectations. Many have blamed the centralised academy system as a major factor.

This thread to debate the optimal academy structure and management, competitions and obviously the players, coaches and performances.

Can the Academies exist as a competition in their own right, or are they a pre-season/off season concept?

Can a young fella do pre-season with Club Colts/Grade AND Academy as well as U20 Jnr RWC committments?

Is too much rugby a good thing for these young men?

Discuss.

This is THE best thing that the Pulveriser has done since his appointment.

 

[D-Box]

Can a young fella do pre-season with Club Colts/Grade AND Academy as well as U20 Jnr RWC committments?

Discuss.

There will need to be some coordination from someone in the ARU to manage workloads, but in a professional set up each player will be undertaking individual programs. This can be tailored around the primary goal of each player for the respective season (general development, Aus 20's, Soup back up player). I know they guys who run the the S&C program for the Force academy and they do exactly this and have a pretty good record of developing players for Super 15.

 

[Quick Hands]

There will need to be some coordination from someone in the ARU to manage workloads, but in a professional set up each player will be undertaking individual programs. This can be tailored around the primary goal of each player for the respective season (general development, Aus 20's, Soup back up player). I know they guys who run the the S&C program for the Force academy and they do exactly this and have a pretty good record of developing players for Super 15.

True. If done correctly, there are no losers in this set-up.

In Sydney it will stop the leakage of elite players into the NRL u/20 competition when they leave school. It's been said to me by a parent that his boys would prefer to stay in rugby, but there are limited opportunities for 18-19 year olds at the elite level in rugby and 16 NRL franchises with u/20 squads to fill.

 

[griffith blacks]

A lot more needs to be done to sort out junior rugby to ensure that we have a large pool of players moving through to elite status. Junior rugby is fractured with club comps split between Saturdays and Sundays to allow private schools kids to play both. Junior clubs who boosted teams across all age groups have been decimated by having teams play on saturdays or sundays. I have seen so many promising juniors leave union to Nrl u20. If we don't start keeping these kids in the game you will never get bigger pool of elite players. ARU needs to build the basis of the triangle.

 

[Quick Hands]

A lot more needs to be done to sort out junior rugby to ensure that we have a large pool of players moving through to elite status. Junior rugby is fractured with club comps split between Saturdays and Sundays to allow private schools kids to play both. Junior clubs who boosted teams across all age groups have been decimated by having teams play on saturdays or sundays. I have seen so many promising juniors leave union to Nrl u20. If we don't start keeping these kids in the game you will never get bigger pool of elite players. ARU needs to build the basis of the triangle.

Much truth in what you say about juniors.

No doubt the base of the pyramid needs expanding and the ARU/NSWRU are about 30 years off the pace.

The academy proposal is a good one though.

 

[Crashy]

Building the pyramid is presicely why we needed a 5th soup team. 5 Academies now represents a further 45 spots that weren't available last year. Surely this will assist our under 20 prospects next year. Are we going to see a state based under 20s championship any time soon?
I hate what the mungos continue to to do to Rugby.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I think the Academies won't be restricted to U20 players. I believe that they will cater for players between 18 and 24

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A lot more needs to be done to sort out junior rugby to ensure that we have a large pool of players moving through to elite status. Junior rugby is fractured with club comps split between Saturdays and Sundays to allow private schools kids to play both. Junior clubs who boosted teams across all age groups have been decimated by having teams play on saturdays or sundays. I have seen so many promising juniors leave union to Nrl u20. If we don't start keeping these kids in the game you will never get bigger pool of elite players. ARU needs to build the basis of the triangle.

I think the introduction of the JGC could provide an interesting opportunity beyond the current proosed U17s bracket particularly at the U20s level. The JGC is essentially aimed at providing 1400+ (48 squads of 30) kids exposure to more professional training and playing environments leading into Colts Rugby. At the risk of ensuing the wrath of the club faithful here, why not simply expand that model to the U20s bracket but instead of using 24 centres cut the number back to say 12. Look to link it to Universities (more identify Uni's who has allowances for elite sportsmen etc) and other educational opportunities be it academic or trades. That way you have are promoting the best from the JGC into a even more competitive environment and a proving ground for Schoolboys to prove themselves.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Anyone know the selction process and when this process starts

 

[TOCC]

Restricting academes to U20 would be a bit ridiculous, physically forwards don't develop until there early 20's

 

[Quick Hands]

Anyone know the selction process and when this process starts

You'd assume that the 5 super teams would select their own based on developing players for themselves in the short, medium and long term. They need to have ownership of it for it to work properly.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I'd imagine that there may be some cross over between Academies and EPS, or at least movement between them as Team Rehab starts recruiting during the Soup season and EPS get called up to Soup regulars to ride the pine.

 

[Crashy]

as long as the new team based academies introduce more players into a professional environment the better. Front rowers and locks only imo!

 

[churchills cigar]

Ok, here's a thought for discussion.
I personally know many current super, test and sevens players who do not, because of training demands do not have any secondary education.
Currently we are only developing a better kind of meat, the ARU and super clubs are not investing in players futures beyond rugby.
Gone are the days super clubs insisted on every player having some form of education while playing- long gone. There are Wallaby players who have tried as many as three or four university or tertiary education plans only to fail through non flexible super training demands.

Having close ties with the NTS, state Academy, National sevens and Wallaby representation as well as a more than casual knowledge of the US NCAA approach, here is a thought.
1: each state to have an academy of say 30 - 40 players
2: each player in an academy MUST be doing some form of university study. This means schoolboys must therefore put in a bit of academic effort, no Uni, no academy: no academy no super rugby unless they have some post high school qualification.
3: Super clubs hence ARU cannot sign academy or high school players until they have completed university or 5 years of academy (NCAA allows 5 years of college scholarship but only 4 years of playing) .
The purpose of this is to give kids an advanced education and let's them hone their skills at academy and club rugby before being thrown into super rugby and developing expanded self belief.
Fail at Uni, no rugby. Minimum GPA must be maintained.
4: While at the academy, the players will affiliate with a local club.
5: clubs to allocated players based on how many academy players of certain quality they already have (Eg. Sydney Uni has last allocation)
6: At the conclusion of the university or the gaining of some form of higher education,the players are part of a draft similar to NFL for super rugby participation.
7: During the academy years, as well as being part of a club system, the players also participate in a state based academy competition ( yes all states, not just the big two)

Now I know this will be opposed and take time but the long term results and benefits will surely outweigh the costs.
This isn't perfect but the way I see it Australian rugby is churning out educated athletes, many with life long physical impediments and in doing so the feeder club system is suffering.
* Rugby will have a third tier comp, not the one people want but a viable academy comp similar to college football.
* Clubs benefit by having talented youngsters at their disposal for up to 5 years.
* This also means players can attend universities not necessarily at the heart of the major cities as training can be coordinated through the university S & C departments
* Players hone their skills in the academy and club competition
* Players mature as people before national exposure
* Over the academy tenure the cream will rise and skills developed
* At the end of the rugby career, whenever that might occur, players will have an education.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I like the concept of players being educated while they are training/playing especially at Academy levels.

I do think though that it is a bit much insisting on tertiary education at a University, as well as maintaining an adequate academic record.

Many people are not made out to be University academics. The criteria should be no Academy contract/position without either University or TAFE study. Plenty of those not suited to University study thrive in the more practical world of a TAFE vocational education. There is nothing dishonourable about having trade qualifications, and they are generally very transferable from state to state, and country to country.

RUPA needs to start looking at the whole continuing education and trade/professional development as part of of their player welfare package. All athletes are only one bad injury away from the Centrelink queue if they do not have professional or trade qualifications to fall back on.

 

[boyo]

Yes, there is life after playing rugby.

 

[Jets]

I like that people want players to gain a University education but then get upset when they all play for the University rugby club as they are the ones making this happen.

I understand the desire for players to gain an education but University isn't for everyone. Trade qualifications or employment have to be options too.

The Holden Cup model in League seems to be a good model but they have more flexibility around training programs. The academy system works in rugby as it provides super coaches with 50-60 bodies at training so they can run teams against each other.

The other issue is that they have to be qualifications that transfer to the real world. We don't want to develop 40 more PT's as it's not a viable career pathway for many people.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Are we trying to cram too much in to too small a space?

Many of the Academy kids would also be hot prospects for Under 20's Wider training squad, and either Colts 1 starters for their Club, or First Grade regulars.

Are the Academies the defacto Under 20's Wider Training Squad?