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A Proposal For A New Third Tier Competition In Australia

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WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
One thing I would like to see if this idea does come to fruition, is for the winning academy side to play a barbarian team of club players.

Could be a curtain raiser for one of the june tests.

See I'd like to see a team of purely club players from outside the Academy set ups from both Sydney and Brisbane be involved in any Academy Competition. However, that won't be doable if it runs alongside Super Rugby and Club Rugby.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Bill Pulver when he spouted:

"We could potentially have rugby league schools, AFL schools participating in Sevens tournaments and maybe winning them." And this is somehow supposed to be a good thing. Schools which are focussed on other codes entering Rugby Sevens tournaments for a laugh and trouncing our blokes. Yes, that will certainly gain respect for our sport.
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This shows why an ex-private school type should not have been appointed to the role. He is thinking through the prism of rugby as a school sport. This is not the model that works in professional sport in Australia.

And the idea for the 3rd tier to be run through universities is too absurd for words.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
This shows why an ex-private school type should not have been appointed to the role. He is thinking through the prism of rugby as a school sport. This is not the model that works in professional sport in Australia.

And the idea for the 3rd tier to be run through universities is too absurd for words.

Well, he does have a point there and I can sort of comprehend his thinking there. How do you reach the maximum number of kids in the shortest period of time? Through schools sport. What the easiest form to get up and running in the short term? Sevens. And most importantly, which one will appeal to younger children? Sevens again.

My old school St Greg's is a good example of how successful it could be. They won the NSW leg of the qualification process and came second in the National Championship to another traditionally strong League school in Keebra Park. It's a strategy that could work. It has made the whole introductory process to the game a great deal easier and it does translate into the 15 man game.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
This shows why an ex-private school type should not have been appointed to the role. He is thinking through the prism of rugby as a school sport. This is not the model that works in professional sport in Australia.

Rugby is a school sport pretty much everywhere in the world.

The rugby systems of the teams that regularly beat us such as NZ, South Africa and to a lesser extent England are all fundamentally based on kids learning their rugby when playing at school.

I reckon the ARU should be pushing rugby in every high school in the country. I firmly believe it's the 'proper' way to grow the game.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Rugby is a school sport pretty much everywhere in the world.

The rugby systems of the teams that regularly beat us such as NZ, South Africa and to a lesser extent England are all fundamentally based on kids learning their rugby when playing at school.

I reckon the ARU should be pushing rugby in every high school in the country. I firmly believe it's the 'proper' way to grow the game.

The only difference to your idea is that I actually think they should be pushing the game at the primary age level building the demand for more Rugby in the High School level. Also has the added advantage of kids coming into the more competitive High School years with more Rugby know how then those picking the game up for the first time in High School.

Though, to be honest, I would be happy regardless of what level they choose as long as they really push it. I for one would prefer to see the AOC funding that the game is now eligible for go toward this with an eye on the future. Whether it can occur.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
One of my kids started primary school at the local State school this year. At the parent information evening the headmistress proudly announced the school's sport offerings which are: Soccer, tennis and AFL. No league, no Rugby and this is an area where those sports are very popular.

I'm with WCR, the ARU need to focus on all levels at school but I'm very off topic......
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Well, he does have a point there and I can sort of comprehend his thinking there. How do you reach the maximum number of kids in the shortest period of time? Through schools sport. What the easiest form to get up and running in the short term? Sevens. And most importantly, which one will appeal to younger children? Sevens again.

No-one is saying that you don't do these things - you do.

What rugby needs to do is to broaden its base. The model that works in Australia (league, cricket, aussie rules, soccer etc) is club based, starting at 6-8 years of age.

No point comparing to NZ or SA where rugby dominates or UK where the population is so much bigger. I know you haven't made this comparison, but many do.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Building at primary age groups, and through schools needs to be focused on. With regards to other codes;
NRL, Their main comp focus is on community teams, the clubs, and they have built up tribalism amongst their supporters and have done it well.
AFL, like wise they have the same model but have done it even better, their club is in their blood.
ARU, quite the opposite they are looking to neglect the community clubs, the foundations of rugby, and focus on another model with different rules.

Solid foundations are the foundations of a strong team, a good business, and success - I'd like to see growth at grass roots juniors, and clubs and greater quality and depth will then rise at the top end.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Dave,

Have you considered the possibility that professional sport is all about money? League is strong now because it was professional from the outset, and its growth was fuelled, not by tribalism (that was a result of its success, not its cause) but largely by poker machines.

The AFL was the VFL until relatively recently, but obviously it does have very deep roots in a large proportion of the country.


The ARU is, in the professional era, a minnow fighting for the scraps between two giants.



We would all like to see good growth, the grassroots doing well, and so on and so forth. Have you got any specific suggestions as to what the ARU can do about this? The major opponent for our kids also has the huge benefit of setting its own rules, and of course of dominating sports coverage on FTA in much of our nation, while we are virtually non-existent.


Rugby is a game that thrives in some countries, and not in others. We are one of the others, unfortunately, and the reasons are obvious. Most of us actually enjoy the whole buzz of running with the ball, that is why league is so popular.

Meanwhile, it our little shitheap, the rich get richer ( particularly in our most important heartland, Sydney) and the poor can go to play league.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
No-one is saying that you don't do these things - you do.

What rugby needs to do is to broaden its base. The model that works in Australia (league, cricket, aussie rules, soccer etc) is club based, starting at 6-8 years of age.

No point comparing to NZ or SA where rugby dominates or UK where the population is so much bigger. I know you haven't made this comparison, but many do.

I understand your point of view and it would great if efforts in one lead to a natural articulation across to the other. Going down the schools path can and does bear fruit. The schools route is what lead my brother and I go choose Rugby over Soccer and start playing club rugby. I think initially its about reach, reach as many kids as possible in the most immediate time frame.

Interestingly relating to this issue, a few years back while living in the Pilbara (Karratha to be precise) I started talking to a RugbyWA representative about getting junior Rugby going up in the region. The question of attracting competition was discussed as the main stumbling block.

The solution I suggested at the time was school based clubs (8 primary schools with the furthest only a 30 min drive from the others which were quite clustered). Was received well, but, my circumstances changed and nothing happened and nothing came of it. Still like it though and I cannot see and real reason why it couldn't be applied across the board.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Wamberal, this thread is full of great ideas, some not so great, and some only dreams. Yet Pulver is suggesting 25 minute halves and a ten minute half time with new rules??

In addition to this it's a comp that not only takes from Premier / Shut Shield rugby, but also competes with Premier / Shute Shield, and Super rugby.

We are not NZ, or SA but we have no games after Super, or Shute, whilst both ther countries take advantage of that window with quality rugby.

There are a number of models suggested some need dollars, some make use of existing teams and structures to reduce the expense.

Yes, NRL, and AFL are existing but they also do a great job with juniors (not a huge expense), and with their club sides - ARU doesn't do a lot at all instead it's come up with this crazy idea.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I understand your point of view and it would great if efforts in one lead to a natural articulation across to the other. Going down the schools path can and does bear fruit. The schools route is what lead my brother and I go choose Rugby over Soccer and start playing club rugby. I think initially its about reach, reach as many kids as possible in the most immediate time frame.

Interestingly relating to this issue, a few years back while living in the Pilbara (Karratha to be precise) I started talking to a RugbyWA representative about getting junior Rugby going up in the region. The question of attracting competition was discussed as the main stumbling block.

The solution I suggested at the time was school based clubs (8 primary schools with the furthest only a 30 min drive from the others which were quite clustered). Was received well, but, my circumstances changed and nothing happened and nothing came of it. Still like it though and I cannot see and real reason why it couldn't be applied across the board.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. Clubs based on schools to me would mean that the a club would recruit from a particular primary school, but it would be a club, run like all junior sport. This to me is different from school sport, which requires teachers to coach etc and players play for the school instead of the club.

This is the model which works on the northern beaches ie junior clubs draw their players primarily from the closest primary schools.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
Agree a club system based around schools would work. Soccer in Sydney works this way for infant school kids they play with their class mates, and when they get to primary gradings start to happen and they mix with kids from other schools.
As far as club rugby goes in Sydney they only have themselves to blame, they don't value the 'franchise' they have like other major sporting teams do and work to promote the common product. Sorry for the business speak but a rising tide lifts all boats, they need someone to come in and run club rugby not clubs trying to run it themselves, just doesn't work in this day and age.
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
I for one think this announcement is fantastic.

It categorically proves that the ARU could not give a flying figleaf about Club rugby. What this means is that Brisbane and Sydney (and other rugby centres to a lesser extent) can pull the heads out of the ringo stars knowing that the ARU won't be bothered with interfering.

This announcement wil die completely. But what it does do is give the Clubs time to come up with a genuine solution that can attract players, spectator and sponsors alike.

SS and QPL, you have been granted freedom to pursue a golden opprtunity. DON'T F$#@ IT UP.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
There are some dreamers on this thread. Most district clubs in Sydney are struggling financially now. I would guess that most of them would welcome some financial input from somewhere, anywhere, as well as some expertise.

Any volunteers?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I'd much rather be a dreamer and risk failure than admit defeat before I'd even started.

I've been involved in my club in various capacities for over 30 years, so I know many of the issues involved.
 
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