5th Bench Spot - What's your preference?

[darkhorse]

I'm a fan of the 5-2 bench split atm. The extra forward can really help the wallabies win the battle at the breakdown and there is good versatility in the backs to overcome any injuries.

Is is it really necessary to carry another 7 on a 5-2 bench for the wallabies atm? You would like to use every player on your bench. Since Pockock is clearly able to go the full 80, as well as being the last forward you would want to pull, a player like Hodgson is a bit redundant IMO. Sure he can cover 6 & 8 as well, but is he really a great player in those positions? He is really just a 7 with a different number on his back, similar to when both smith & waugh were starting for the wallabies.

Surely a specialist 6 or 8 would be of more value and more likely to be used. Assuming the first 2 reserves are a prop and a hooker. I would like to see the 3 remaining forward slots go to Vickerman (or Sharpe), Higgonbotham (or Timani) and Samo. Those in brackets are tough to leave out.

You are risking in the event of an injury occurring to Pockock, but is it really that big a deal if Samo came on instead of Hodgson?

Thoughts? Is a 5-2 split the right option to begin with? Who would be on your bench?

 

[DPK]

Sure, I'll take the spot. I can cover the back three.

 

[tigerland12]

I would prefer Robinson to Hodgson if Deans was looking at a specialist 7 cover. But I agree that with Pocock an 80 minute player, why have someone on the bench as an injury cover? But then again, how likely is Deans to take off Elsom as well?

I have the feeling that who ever gets that 5th bench spot will be rarley used.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm not a fan of the 5-2 bench split as there is already a forwards majority and you can't afford to have any backline players injured during a match.

Look at what happened in the last match.

Basically, if one backline player goes down and you bring on a replacement then you're only left with an extra scrumhalf.

Unless the bench split is 4-3 and Deans seriously considers Higginbotham to be a wing?

 

[Groucho]

I would prefer Robinson to Hodgson if Deans was looking at a specialist 7 cover. But I agree that with Pocock an 80 minute player, why have someone on the bench as an injury cover? But then again, how likely is Deans to take off Elsom as well?

I have the feeling that who ever gets that 5th bench spot will be rarley used.

I think you have the logic the wrong way round, tigerland12. Pocock being an 80m player means that what you need is injury cover on the bench, rather than a tactical replacement.

 

[Swarley]

The idea of the bench is to provide cover for our starting XV, so that's how we should use it. With only two backs on the bench, one of whom will be a specialist #9, then that leaves one player to cover 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15. The only player who comes close to providing that cover is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), but I refuse to buy into the theory that he should be benched simply because of his versatility, nor do I think that our bench should be 'impact players'. Our selection policy should be this. 1-15 are our best players and 16-22 are our next best (in their respective positions, of course). With the traditional 4/3 split we can pick backups in all positions and we likely won't have to reshuffle our back-line if injury occurs. Assuming we have a fully fit starting XV, our bench should be:

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau- Won't be as match-fit as Moore and it doesn't really matter who starts anyway.
17. James Slipper- Provides stable cover for both LHP and THP, whereas Alexander doesn't. He's also the 3rd best in the country behind Robinson/Kepu.
18. Nathan Sharpe- Deans seems set on a Simmons/Horwill combo, and Sharpe's experience, leadership, line-out talent and mauling skills IMO should see him take out this spot.
19. Ben McCalman- Seeing as neither Rocky or Pocock are likely be subbed (One's captain and the other's the best #7 in the world), we need cover for Palu. Palu's susceptible to injury and his match-fitness won't be great, so McCalman should take this spot. He also can cover 4/5/6 and his high workrate may see him consolidate him selection in our 22.
20. Luke Burgess- I don't want Genia to come off, but if he has to then Burgess is our 2nd best scrumhalf.
21. Berrick Barnes- He's our 2nd best #10 and he's extremely consistent. Performed excellently in the HK test coming off the bench, maybe that's the role he's suited to.
22. Lachie Turner/ Pat McCabe/ Drew Mitchell- When Robbie said 'JO'C will play some #12 this season, I don't know if he meant until Mitchell comes back or in pool games. If it's until Mitchell returns, I'd suggest either Lachie Turner or Pat McCabe as both can cover 11/13/14, while Turner can play #15 and McCabe can play #12. If JO'C stays on the wing, then Mitchell will take this spot.

 

[Scotty]

I'm not a fan of the 5-2 bench split as there is already a forwards majority and you can't afford to have any backline players injured during a match.

Look at what happened in the last match.

Basically, if one backline player goes down and you bring on a replacement then you're only left with an extra scrumhalf.

Unless the bench split is 4-3 and Deans seriously considers Higginbotham to be a wing?

Post number 100 from Slim about Higginbotham being a wing.

Never gets old.

 

[Utility Back]

The idea of the bench is to provide cover for our starting XV, so that's how we should use it. With only two backs on the bench, one of whom will be a specialist #9, then that leaves one player to cover 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15. The only player who comes close to providing that cover is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), but I refuse to buy into the theory that he should be benched simply because of his versatility, nor do I think that our bench should be 'impact players'. Our selection policy should be this. 1-15 are our best players and 16-22 are our next best (in their respective positions, of course). With the traditional 4/3 split we can pick backups in all positions and we likely won't have to reshuffle our back-line if injury occurs. Assuming we have a fully fit starting XV, our bench should be:

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau- Won't be as match-fit as Moore and it doesn't really matter who starts anyway.
17. James Slipper- Provides stable cover for both LHP and THP, whereas Alexander doesn't. He's also the 3rd best in the country behind Robinson/Kepu.
18. Nathan Sharpe- Deans seems set on a Simmons/Horwill combo, and Sharpe's experience, leadership, line-out talent and mauling skills IMO should see him take out this spot.
19. Ben McCalman- Seeing as neither Rocky or Pocock are likely be subbed (One's captain and the other's the best #7 in the world), we need cover for Palu. Palu's susceptible to injury and his match-fitness won't be great, so McCalman should take this spot. He also can cover 4/5/6 and his high workrate may see him consolidate him selection in our 22.
20. Luke Burgess- I don't want Genia to come off, but if he has to then Burgess is our 2nd best scrumhalf.
21. Berrick Barnes- He's our 2nd best #10 and he's extremely consistent. Performed excellently in the HK test coming off the bench, maybe that's the role he's suited to.
22. Lachie Turner/ Pat McCabe/ Drew Mitchell- When Robbie said 'JO'C will play some #12 this season, I don't know if he meant until Mitchell comes back or in pool games. If it's until Mitchell returns, I'd suggest either Lachie Turner or Pat McCabe as both can cover 11/13/14, while Turner can play #15 and McCabe can play #12. If JO'C stays on the wing, then Mitchell will take this spot.

Gotta disagree mate, Reserves are impact players or at least should be, obviously dont bring them on if you dont think they'll add anything, but i refuse to believe they wont, if moore gets tired, here come Apocalypse-Nau, simmons for sharpie (or vice versa). Pocock is an 80 minute player, he's special, so he gets special treatment, or at least the next best aint even close.

Reds showed what good bench options can bring (see hanson, Greg Holmes, AWH (yes sorry to bring any provincialism into this but i think they did)) and i believe its a big point on why kiwis finish so strongly (yes sorry to provide kiwis with any compliments, and stephen donald is perfect example on when not to use you bench, but i 'Lee Grant')

 

[Richo]

Apocalypse-Nau

I like it!

 

[gecko]

5-2

We need impact off the bench in the forwards as that's our weakness.

At the moment I don't see the back reserves as there to add impact, they're there for cover. 2 injuries across 6 back positions seems unlikely. If it happens Burges is a sizeable halfback I think he could adjust for a short period. In the main matches there's no reason any of our backs wouldn't play the full 8- barring injury. If Mitchell makes it back we'll have a back who offers impact.

The pack needs to lift it's work rate in the lose and extra reserve helps with that. My preference is adding Samo or an extra prop as the 5th forward reserve. I think Robinson should be in front of Hodgson but neither is necessary as Pocock will play the full 80 in the main matches.

In pool games or the QF depending on the opposition or the boks test we may want to alter the bench putting an openside on and/ or an extra back reserve to give certain players rests late in the game.

 

[Scotty]

My optimal bench:

16 TPN - Impact, impact and impact.
17 Alexander - with Slipper starting. Alexander's mobility will be more effective towards the end of a game.
18 Sharpe - Similar comment to Alexanders, plus experience crucial at the end of a tight match.
19 Samo - see TPN
20 Hodgson - not expected to get any minutes, but there to get the job done just in case.
21 Burgess - can make an impact if we are chasing a game, but not expected to get minutes if it is close or we are winning.
22 Barnes - he makes a different impact - tight defense and control of field position. Good to have if it is close or we are winning to close it out.

My bench is not all about impact in the traditional sense. I think we need more balance than that. We have four 'high impact' players - TPN, Alexander, Samo, Burgess. These guys can change the course of a game. Then we have the 'steady hands' - Sharpe, Barnes. And lastly the high work rate 'injury cover' - Hodgson.

Where the wallabies are likely to fall down in a big test match is the battle of the collisions, therefore I believe we need 5 forwards on the bench, 4 of which will be expected to play at least 15-20 minutes. This allows a few starting players to go much harder at the contest, knowing they will likely be replaced after 60 minutes.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

The ability to play a 5-2 bench is heavily dependent on Mccabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) playing in the VX or Giteau playing off the bench (covering 9). The versatility we currently have in our XV allows it and I totally support making use of that.

 

[disco]

I agree with Utility Back & that the reserves are there to make an impact & not picked just in case of injury. If we do clear out the reserves bench & then have an injury just do what the Kiwis did in Bledisloe 1 2008 with Jimmy Cowan & Andy Ellis.

Cowan cleary goes off with a knee injury but you just run Ellis on anyway, I wonder if that was another dare.

 

[Slim 293]

5-2

We need impact off the bench in the forwards as that's our weakness.

At the moment I don't see the back reserves as there to add impact, they're there for cover. 2 injuries across 6 back positions seems unlikely. If it happens Burges is a sizeable halfback I think he could adjust for a short period. In the main matches there's no reason any of our backs wouldn't play the full 8- barring injury. If Mitchell makes it back we'll have a back who offers impact.

The pack needs to lift it's work rate in the lose and extra reserve helps with that. My preference is adding Samo or an extra prop as the 5th forward reserve. I think Robinson should be in front of Hodgson but neither is necessary as Pocock will play the full 80 in the main matches.

In pool games or the QF depending on the opposition or the boks test we may want to alter the bench putting an openside on and/ or an extra back reserve to give certain players rests late in the game.

Really? I've seen it happen a LOT...

Also, if we sub one backline player, and then one of them gets injured you have to either bring on the scrumhalf or another forward...

 

[BDA]

My first choice Bench (provided no benn robinson)

16. TPN
17. Alexander
18. Vickerman
19. McCalman
20. Robinson
21. Burgess
22. Mitchell

 

[Joe Mac]

A bench needs to bring impact.

My Bench would be:
Moore- TPN to start.
Alexander- score a few tries when the opposition are tired. Scrimmaging deficiencies less obvious this late in the game.
Vicks- Impact and aggression
Palu- Samo to play the first 50, Palu to spend the last 30 minutes killing people.
Robinson- I like Links idea of two fetchers in the last 20. Sub off Elsom.
Burgess- impact. Great defender who gives us a forward pack of 9.
Barnes- can close out a game with his kicking game (if required). Organise the defence.

 

[Braveheart.]

My ideal bench is horses for courses.

Depending on who we are playing and how we are planning on playing the game.