3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[wamberal]

28% have voted for the "8 team ARC rehash" option. Could some of you explain exactly what is going through your minds?

A team on the NSW Central Coast? Really? Ditto a team that was supposed to be supported by rugby people at the Gold Coast and which could not sell one single table for its launch, and played in front of 100 people? (Mind you, the Rams struggled to draw 100, too).

Let's get a bit serious. We need some of the current successful clubs to be involved. Including the universities.

 

[Schnarper]

So when Super Rugby franchises are looking to both NZ and SA for talent to fill roster spots in our current 5 squads, you want us to scrap that and go to 20 teams. I think you completely misunderstand the entire point of the proposed structureand the current Super Rugby strucuture. It's about quality. Not dots on the map.

Twenty teams would be far, far too many to produce anything near the level needed to ensure we are competitive on the international stage. One of the issues with spreading the talent over three or foru competitions is that there isn't the necessary concentration of talent to develop players so they can step up to Super Rugby more easily and remove the need to look to outside sources for talent.

Cutting Super Rugby and going down the route you propose will only excebate the issue not improve upon it. Your proposal is by no means superior to a 10 team competition sourcing talent from the remaining Super Rugby talent not required for Test duty and the best from the 5 current club competitions.

As for the brands not identifying with a community. NSW Waratahs, QLD Reds, ACT Brumbies, Melbourne Rebels and Western Force. The only one that doesn't effectively state exactly which community they are based are the Force and even then it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. They identify with set communities. What they don't do is connect with them well enough in some cases or not enough for others.

My point is that we have too many tiers and brands, that is, club rugby, S15 and now talk of another 3rd tier.

The suggestion was to use the existing base - that is the 20 clubs that are already there in Brisbane & Sydney club rugby and utilise these as part of an integrated national competition. Therefore we are not talking about diluting the player base and it doesn't cannibalise or potentially destroy the existing Brisbane and Sydney clubs as a 3rd tier would.

It is noted that some of those clubs would need to JV with an alternate city base (as South Melbourne and Fitzroy did to form the Swans & the Lions in the AFL). This creates a dual base model both in the 'heartland' and the new area.

The reality is the AFL has best targeted the national market and therefor TV rights and revenues which then funds the development of the game (a classic positive circle).

Another point is that the current S15 model adversely impacts the NPC and Currie Cup. Both great traditions which now run on a shortened model. Both impacted in a way which is not popular with their communities in SA and NZ.

 

[tigerland12]

28% have voted for the "8 team ARC rehash" option. Could some of you explain exactly what is going through your minds?

A team on the NSW Central Coast? Really? Ditto a team that was supposed to be supported by rugby people at the Gold Coast and which could not sell one single table for its launch, and played in front of 100 people? (Mind you, the Rams struggled to draw 100, too).

Let's get a bit serious. We need some of the current successful clubs to be involved. Including the universities.

Was thinking the exact same thing when I saw the votes.

Quite possibly the worst option.

Options 3 and 4 seem the best in terms of setting up a ITM Cup style 3rd tier, whilst the Super B option is probably the most easily to implement.

 

[#1 Tah]

Step 1: Get a Sydney and Brisbane team in the ITM Cup for the base of the 3rd tier

Step 2: Set up West Sydney, Canberra, Gold Coast/FNQ and Country NSW/QLD teams in a round robin contest at one location (Have it in the city or market the shit out of it and get every Aussie Rugby fan to a country town... what a party)

Step 3: Bring back the Sydney and Brisbane teams to our own competition

Step 4: Bring in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth teams

Step 5: Eventually (when revenue from gate and/or FTA deal is large enough) move away from one city round robin to home/away competition.

This competition shouldn't be sacred, as long as a team is financially viable and has a reasonable standard of players, they should be allowed to enter. And if travel costs are too much, why not have a 3rd Tier 7s competition instead? Sevens is a bloody awesome game, get funding from AOC as development from Olympics and bring Womens rugby into it too!

 

[Bowside]

Country teams aren't going to happen, they don't make commercial sense. A canberra or newcastle based team will be the closest thing to a country team.

And a one city comp devalues the experience. Cricket is only doing it because 1 day cricket is dying and they have to keep it alive until the next world cup.

 

[#1 Tah]

And a one city comp devalues the experience. Cricket is only doing it because 1 day cricket is dying and they have to keep it alive until the next world cup.

I would love to tell you that we are in a different position to Cricket Australia... If we want this to make financial sense, this may be the way to go initially. Once there is enough interest, expand.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

My point is that we have too many tiers and brands, that is, club rugby, S15 and now talk of another 3rd tier.

The suggestion was to use the existing base - that is the 20 clubs that are already there in Brisbane & Sydney club rugby and utilise these as part of an integrated national competition. Therefore we are not talking about diluting the player base and it doesn't cannibalise or potentially destroy the existing Brisbane and Sydney clubs as a 3rd tier would.

It is noted that some of those clubs would need to JV with an alternate city base (as South Melbourne and Fitzroy did to form the Swans & the Lions in the AFL). This creates a dual base model both in the 'heartland' and the new area.

The reality is the AFL has best targeted the national market and therefor TV rights and revenues which then funds the development of the game (a classic positive circle).

Another point is that the current S15 model adversely impacts the NPC and Currie Cup. Both great traditions which now run on a shortened model. Both impacted in a way which is not popular with their communities in SA and NZ.

Mate, what your suggesting is unworkable and would do far more damage than good. Personally, we should probably go for a 10 team competition at most. Based around rep lines where possible. Super B would be the easiest to implement but I'd like to see it played after Club Rugby. You have the five Super Rugby franchises with their contracted/EPS and Academy players all available. Add in a second Brisbane and Sydney squad and a Newcastle rep squad. A good tough 8 team competition. Perfect.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Step 1: Get a Sydney and Brisbane team in the ITM Cup for the base of the 3rd tier

Step 2: Set up West Sydney, Canberra, Gold Coast/FNQ and Country NSW/QLD teams in a round robin contest at one location (Have it in the city or market the shit out of it and get every Aussie Rugby fan to a country town. what a party)

Step 3: Bring back the Sydney and Brisbane teams to our own competition

Step 4: Bring in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth teams

Step 5: Eventually (when revenue from gate and/or FTA deal is large enough) move away from one city round robin to home/away competition.

This competition shouldn't be sacred, as long as a team is financially viable and has a reasonable standard of players, they should be allowed to enter. And if travel costs are too much, why not have a 3rd Tier 7s competition instead? Sevens is a bloody awesome game, get funding from AOC as development from Olympics and bring Womens rugby into it too!

Interesting proposal but I'll point out the first flaw and that's the Syd and Bris teams in the ITM Cup. That's not going to happen. The NZRU are pretty adamant about that.

I actually think it's fairly simple. We already have five squads of contracted players. Use them. Push club Rugby in alignment with Super Rugby. All squad members not required for Super Rugby play clubs rugby. After Super Rugby the remaining players from the 5 Super Rugby franchises plus academy form 5 of the 8 participating squads. Brand them after the city they are based. Give both Syd and Brisbane a second team each. Bringing it to 7. They could split the squads in to and add in the best prospects from clubland to fill the gaps. The 8th in the form of the Newcastle Wildfires.

That NSW being the largest Union will have 3 teams, Qld will have two teams (could go to three in the future), ACT, WA and VIC one each. Pretty fair spread.

 

[kiap]

Looks like a 'streamline' start-up to a 3T.

Teams likely to pay to play in third tier​

​

BRET HARRIS The Australian: October 21, 2013 12:00AM​

​

ARU chief executive Bill Pulver is expected to present his proposal for a third-tier competition to the ARU board at its meeting in Sydney today. ​

​

After becoming ARU chief executive in February, Pulver investigated the idea of creating a Super B competition with teams playing curtain-raisers to Super Rugby games. Pulver also looked at an Australian universities based competition, which was proposed by the Rugby Union Players Association.​

​

But it is understood a Super B competition would be unaffordable. The teams are now likely to compete in the Pacific Nations Cup.​

​

Instead, the new third-tier competition will likely be made up of amalgamated teams from Sydney and Brisbane clubs. The competition is likely to run from August to October and will possibly start up next year.....​

​

..... With the ARU struggling financially, it will be interesting to see if it can secure a broadcast partner and major sponsorship for the new competition.​

​

There has been speculation the teams will pay a licence fee to participate.​

​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ay-in-third-tier/story-e6frg7o6-1226743464045​

 

[Dave Beat]

Mate, what your suggesting is unworkable and would do far more damage than good. Personally, we should probably go for a 10 team competition at most. Based around rep lines where possible. Super B would be the easiest to implement but I'd like to see it played after Club Rugby. You have the five Super Rugby franchises with their contracted/EPS and Academy players all available. Add in a second Brisbane and Sydney squad and a Newcastle rep squad. A good tough 8 team competition. Perfect.

10 Team comp - agreed.
Rep Lines - like (regional zones).
Super B - don't like, it separates away from club values. and grass roots (IMO). But, this is after Soup, and Shute so maybe. I'd like it played at club grounds, with club interest and benefit as this would enable families to attend so young kids can have fun kicking the ball around with their mates.

 

[wamberal]

Looks like a 'streamline' start-up to a 3T.

Teams likely to pay to play in third tier​

​

​

There has been speculation the teams will pay a licence fee to participate.​

​

Good luck with that idea, Bill.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

10 Team comp - agreed.
Rep Lines - like (regional zones).
Super B - don't like, it separates away from club values. and grass roots (IMO). But, this is after Soup, and Shute so maybe. I'd like it played at club grounds, with club interest and benefit as this would enable families to attend so young kids can have fun kicking the ball around with their mates.

I'd even go with just 6 to begin with similar to the Currie Cup. Having watched both it and the ITM Cup this season I actually think that the CC has been the higher quality competition.

Over time as depth improves you can look to enter extra teams. Ideally, in time we should be looking at having two 3rd Tier teams for every Super Rugby franchise. That doesn't mean there needs to be 2 3rd tier teams in each Super Rugby franchises catchment.

 

[Slim 293]

There has been speculation the teams will pay a licence fee to participate

So, which teams can afford this?

Sydney Uni and Canberra Vikings?

Balmain?

..........?

 

[Bowside]

So, which teams can afford this?

Sydney Uni and Canberra Vikings?

Balmain?

....?

Sunnybank, UQ, maybe GPS and Easts.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So, which teams can afford this?

Sydney Uni and Canberra Vikings?

Balmain?

....?

It mentions amalgamated teams would be an option. That's likely how it will need to be for many to participate. This is effectively a means of resurrecting something very similar in structure to the ARC but this time have the clubs driving the need to join forces to participate instead of in opposition.

 

[Dave Beat]

I'd even go with just 6 to begin with similar to the Currie Cup. Having watched both it and the ITM Cup this season I actually think that the CC has been the higher quality competition.

Over time as depth improves you can look to enter extra teams. Ideally, in time we should be looking at having two 3rd Tier teams for every Super Rugby franchise. That doesn't mean there needs to be 2 3rd tier teams in each Super Rugby franchises catchment.

Well I thoroughly enjoyed watching the top 6 compete in the 2nd round last year - there were some cracking games.

People did frown on last years primarily due to the shortened season which we have any way.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well I thoroughly enjoyed watching the top 6 compete in the 2nd round last year - there were some cracking games.

People did frown on last years primarily due to the shortened season which we have any way.

As much as I want a 3rd Tier I don't want it just so we can say we have a competition that is the equal of the the ITM Cup by having 10 teams etc.

What we desperately need is a competition that isn't as good as one or the other but better. While having ten teams would be nice, if they are to be independent then we need to consider a number more around 6 and anymore from there would just be an unexpected luxury.

 

[wamberal]

6 teams playing each other twice, home and away, plus a couple of weeks for the finals would be okay. Three months.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

6 teams playing each other twice, home and away, plus a couple of weeks for the finals would be okay. Three months.

That was what I was thinking.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

6 teams playing each other twice, home and away, plus a couple of weeks for the finals would be okay. Three months.

Most importantly, it will be of high quality.