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3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

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Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
I think that Fox's contribution is televising the games for free - supplying the cameras, labour, commentators, airtime etc. hence only the one game per week. It's a big commitment from them, still.

The cost of the actual competition is being met by the potential teams - as stated above they are providing the playing and training facilities, salaries, coaching and support staff. I would expect the ARU are paying the match officials, and that these funds will come out of the entry fee I understand the ARU will be asking for.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Cat,

I would have liked to have seen it based on the Super Franchises with other teams coming in as they demonstrated their financial capability.

The "money" funding it would not go to the clubs without it though. Because without a national comp driving subscription TV and potential national advertising there is no money. Yes it is a crowded sponsorship market.

However, selling major sponsorship must surely be easier for a team in a national comp with one game televised nationally in prime time, as opposed to one game televised Saturday afternoon in the region.
 

Crashy

John Solomon (38)
Cat - A -
The premier clubs have had a long time to validate their existence and in most cases have failed. So you think because the premier clubs are agains the idea, its a bad one? What do the schools, subbies and junior clubs think about it. What do the Wallabies and Super Rugby clubs think about it? Premier Clubs are not the be-all of Australian rugby - they are a very important piece but I doubt throwing money at them will help - christ we've seen how they can stuff that up.
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
Sorry Crashy, I think my point was unclear.

I wasn't advocating throwing money at the Premier Rugby clubs. I meant instead to question their capacity to (even in combination with third parties) generate the income required to field a team.

I was advocating the sides being run through the QRU, NSWRU, VRU, ACTRU and WARU. The Reds are the SXV franchise of the QRU and the Tahs are the franchise of the NSWRU so I am confident that at least two of the franchises are critical of the proposed structure.

TWaS the funding I was referring to which was reduced is the ARU Premier Rugby grant. That funding has gone to Premier Rugby sides in Qld and NSW for years now. It's an interesting idea that clubs are given $35K but asked to stump up $100K (for argument's sake) to compete in a competition with no possibility of financial return.

The discussions I have been briefed on have not indicated any funding coming from the ARU or sponsors to be involved in the comp; the money only goes one way.
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
Let's not forget that Premier Grade was supposed to be the Third Tier. That's why the Qld comp had Gold Coast Breakers and Sunshine Coast Stingrays: two ostensibly rep teams that only competed in Premier Rugby.

We may as well go back to First Grade in Brisbane Club comp etc. If Premier Grade is the Third Tier, fund it better.

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WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Let's not forget that Premier Grade was supposed to be the Third Tier. That's why the Qld comp had Gold Coast Breakers and Sunshine Coast Stingrays: two ostensibly rep teams that only competed in Premier Rugby.

We may as well go back to First Grade in Brisbane Club comp etc. If Premier Grade is the Third Tier, fund it better.

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THe problem with using Premier Grade Rugby in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra is that the talent is spread too thin which inevitably affects the overall quality. It also involves 30 odd clubs. It's just too big a spread of clubs to further fund with the limited funds available.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Agreed - so why not start small using state unions rather than up to 10 brand new teams and more than 200 players?

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Probably fear of staleness kicking in.

I actually would have preferred to see it follow the format of the Australian Rugby Shield with a rep teams from Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth competing in a 1st Divsion and both Country Unions, SA, Darwin and either a Western Sydney or Tasmania in the 2nd divison. Over time teams could be elevated to the first divsion slowly over time.
 

aka_the_think

Jimmy Flynn (14)
I completely support this idea in theory, but a lot of the criticism being levelled at it is more than justified. I think everyone, even the ARU, would agree that this "third-tier" needs a free-to-air television presence, however, I also think everyone understands that the ARU needs cash, and Foxtel/Fox Sports are able to provide just that. If this was negotiated better, the ABC (or a commercial, free-to-air station) should have been given one broadcast a week, in the same time-slot as the current Shute Shield games, while Fox Sports would be given all other games of the round to broadcast. That way the ARU is able to get the money it desires (from a major sponsor like Foxtel) while simultaneously having at least some showing on free-to-air television.
I am going to wait until further details are announced before I jump to any conclusions, but from what I have read so far, this competition is a half-baked solution. It seems to me as if the competition will source established teams from existing rugby competitions e.g. the Shute Shield in Sydney. As I stated earlier, I am a huge fan of a third-tier, but this approach is incredibly stupid/impractical.
In my opinion there should be new franchises created - North Sydney, West Sydney, Sydney (representing the South and East), 2 teams from QLD, Melbourne, Western Australia/Perth and A.C.T/Monaro region. That's 8 teams, and depending on the success of each franchise/the competition in general, the competition could be expanded in future. To make them better managed, and better resourced, I would have them privately owned.
In addition, each team should have a "colts" team, which is under 20s, and play as a curtain raiser to the main game. This would provide yet another layer of development for up and comers, and, perhaps most importantly, improve our performance at the annual under 20s World Cup, where our recent performance has been disappointing to say the least.
In all honesty, this is a great stepping stone for Australian rugby, but I believe that the game in general would be better served by scrapping Super Rugby altogether, and engaging in a Heineken cup-like tournament with the top placed teams from the ITM and Currie cups respectively, or even better (and even more unrealistically), with the top few club teams from each country?
Could you imagine a situation where each capital city had one or more teams in this competition, and the top 2 or so nations competed - you could have Canterbury playing Toulon; Ospreys and Melbourne; or any other potential matchup you can dream of.
I know a lot of people are fundamentally opposed to this approach because of the perceived damages it will do to club rugby (e.g. Shute Shield), and to be honest, they're right; it will destroy club rugby, or at least greatly reduce the quality of it, the attention given to it, etc. I have two responses to this argument: Firstly, it's necessary collateral and justified by the benefits that would be brought by the introduction of such a competition; secondly, it's not as if club rugby is coming from a solid position anyway, interest/attention has wavered for years; Sydney University has destroyed club rugby in Sydney; and the quality in general is no where near the standards it was at before the professional era begun.
Club rugby clubs, like Gordon, Norths, Parramatta, Penrith etc. must all get used to the fact that they are effectively subbies clubs now. This whole "main division"/premier rugby rubbish needs to go. The existing Shute Shield competition should be incorporated into the NSW Suburban Rugby Union competition, and function as the new first grade competition, moving the existing first-division competition (featuring clubs like Old Iggies, Knox Old Boys, Balmain etc) to second division.
This development has come far too late - the ARC should never have been canned in 2007, though I admit it was planned/created poorly. This competition should have been introduced in 1995 when Rugby turned professional, or at the very least in 2003 when interest in Rugby was at an all-time high.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
so on the reasonable assumption that the VRU/Rebels win one of the new NRC franchises, what's the name?
before the VRU team became the Axemen, we were just Victoria, but the second vic team was known as the Hornets.
someone on one of the other threads suggested renegades, but isnt that already a cricket team.
storm - taken
melbourne - too provincial
port philip pirates - too obscure
raiders, steelers, penguins ("go the fairies!")
any proper ideas
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
I actually like the idea. Put up or shut up in my view. Rugby has been dying in Australia while its going gangbusters overseas. Something needs to be done.

I'd love a club like Balmain to get a license. They have just changed the rules of subbies rugby because these guys can afford to pay players. They should be rewarded for being able to do this not punished.

What have all the other clubs being doing while Sydney Uni has been rising to the top? Yes they have used some natural advantages to get there but other clubs are going broke. People should be getting angry at the committees and boards who didn't have the forethought to invest in the future and were after quick glory.

I can't wait for the comp to start in August and I'll be out supporting the South Brisbane Swamp Rats, or whatever stupid name they come up with. It's the future people, embrace it.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
Would LOVE to see this become a club-uni partnership. I am a little biased being an academic, but:
Tahs:
USyd
Eastwood- UMac
Randwick-UNSW

Reds:
UQ
Sunnybank-Griffith Uni
Bond Uni Breakers (to cover GC, but needs investment)

Rebels:
UVic or Deakin

Perth:
UWA

Brumbies:
UCanberra (no brainer with Brumbies moving onto campus)

That's 9 teams, consider giving Melbourne and/or Perth 2 teams for development.


This is what I want to see, except with a west sydney team. But it would take a lot of work before a ball is even kicked to get it working.
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
I completely support this idea in theory, but a lot of the criticism being levelled at it is more than justified. I think everyone, even the ARU, would agree that this "third-tier" needs a free-to-air television presence, however, I also think everyone understands that the ARU needs cash, and Foxtel/Fox Sports are able to provide just that. If this was negotiated better, the ABC (or a commercial, free-to-air station) should have been given one broadcast a week, in the same time-slot as the current Shute Shield games, while Fox Sports would be given all other games of the round to broadcast. That way the ARU is able to get the money it desires (from a major sponsor like Foxtel) while simultaneously having at least some showing on free-to-air television.


I think that it's vital that the third-tier comp. has some FTA TV coverage.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
I think that it's vital that the third-tier comp. has some FTA TV coverage.

While I understand this point of view there are other avenues that the ARU could go down to get coverage. Streaming of games online should be something that is explored. The NBL do it and I'm sure if I went looking there would be a host of other sports overseas that also do it.

I think we need to view this a bit like the A-League, it has taken them 5+ years but they now have a game a week on free to air TV. We need the product to deliver so in year 2 we have 2 games a week, then 3 until all the games are shown on pay tv.

The issue is going to be that Foxtel and Fox Sports are on the Commission for the competition. They aren't going to agree to get games shown on FTA.
 

the coach

Bob Davidson (42)
Yesterday's announcement hasn't cleared up my confusion about the "clubs" competing in the NRC. Are they existing premier clubs (eg Sydney University) or are they made-up clubs like last time (eg Sydney Fleet) with players from several SS clubs combined?

Does anyone know for sure or is this just one of the details not announced yet? I note that the actual clubs won't be announced until February, but I would have thought the ARU would know how they will be structured.

If it is the old ARC model then I'm interested to know where the new clubs will get the money to pay coaching staff etc. I can't believe the ARU believes gates receipts will cover the costs not borne by the ARU (eg player payments). If it's existing clubs then the tribal loyalties will surely boost gate takings etc.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Clubs can either submit an EOI in their own right,or in partnership with other club/s.
I heard Pulver on the radio earlier today, almost confirming there will be North & South Brisbane sides.
I doubt the ARU would approve more than one stand alone Club from Sydney.
 
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