2nd Test Wallabies v France 8pmTuesday 13th July,

[tragic]

Front rower positions to pick up ball from ruck 1m out - you almost never see that.
The 9 moves outwards into a space and the prop passes to him and they score a try.
You have to try pretty hard to make the leap to your post for the sake of a cheap whinge, but well done you. Another top contribution.

Nah it’s a valid point - perhaps with a bad example.
There was a noticeable difference on this skill in both games.
Gordons passes in close are telegraphed and straight to a forward just waiting to get clobbered.
Tate seemed to create half gaps either holding the pass a split second or passing to space. Helps the close in runners cross the gain line. That part of his game was clearly superior.

 

[Dan54]

Well I thought it another bloody good test. Think the criticism of not taking 3 points etc misses the point, none of the kicks where Wallabies went for touch were in anyway gimme's , I generally thought they were on balance quite reasonable decisions. The problem was the ensureing lineouts/mauls. I thought Hooper went pretty ok altogether and seemed to lead team well.
I do wonder if there needs a bit better decisions made at breakdown, think I saw at least 4-5 pile ups where there were 4-5 Wallabies on ground or seemingly trying to ruck when France had just peeled away and had noone near, means it not a ruck and so no offside line etc etc. I thought as a reasonable neutral coming into oranges Wallabies would get game by 10 points or so, but French stepped up more in 2nd 40. Koroibete looked to be going to rip game open a few times, but got no luck etc.
French have got some bloody good young players there, was it Woki (I think was his name) was best player on field, and No 20 when he came on was s big scarey, and boody good player. That was good for a pack with 29 caps starting, and they look to be (with the players left in France) a real powerhouse in world rugby in the making. Geez you add in Dupont, N'Tamack, Carbonell etc etc it's scarey.
As I said I really enjoyed it, don't really think any Wallabies needed fingers pointed at them as letting team down, just 2 even teams, and one had to win.

 

[fatprop]

Only one I'm not sure about is Valetini, who I thought was better tonight. Like the rest.

Yep, I thought he got better as the game went on, they all did pretty well and improved (except Wright)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Anyone got any ideas on why our attacking rucks stink?

You could see the downhill slide in the Tests last year, the alarming thing is it hasn’t been corrected. We are getting owned when we have the ball.

French exposed same problem as nz did in recent TT, they were much quicker to the breakdown and reaction time to secure turnover ball. This is what I observed oz rugby behind in is in speed around the breakdown in getting there and reaction.

 

[Silverado]

Meh, French are ok, don’t see the hype myself, points off the back of Wallaby errors and piggyback penalties

Wasn't this supposed to be a B team? WBs have been in camps during the year and are playing at home, so I'm impressed with the French and a bit underwhelmed by us so far

 

[Pfitzy]

Accuracy at ruck a fair bit.
Accuracy at lineout at critical times.
Accuracy at scrum the one time it REALLY fucking mattered.

I'm not sure how these guys are training, but quite a lot of the time when we lost ruck ball, it was a lazy forward going too far past a ball carrier, or a lazy forward not trailing close enough, or a back who was standing wide and flat for the ball rather than holding an angle so they could move in when things broke down.

Pods and option taking are simple things to train, and I'm really not sure how we aren't getting it. Split your forward pack in 2 and operate on 3 men + a rover.

French midfield far better than ours, and I think we're seeing that Paisami at Test level isn't anywhere near as good at 13 as he is at 12. To'omua was better tonight but still not exactly commanding.

That said: general improvement from everyone and it wasn't a complete disaster UNTIL you factor in France are missing most of their top team

 

[Dan54]

Meh, French are ok, don’t see the hype myself, points off the back of Wallaby errors and piggyback penalties

I don't think you giving the French enough credit UTGs. I see some bloody good players in that French team, and add in all the players they have left behind, they to be commended. Also to not give then credit is to also not give credit to Wallabies the same for beating them in first test (by a French cock up). I thought both teams were very even, French team started test with a pack with 29 caps between them, yet still held their own with a much more experienced pack. I think both teams deserve credit, to disregard either is to disregard both.

 

[Dan54]

And back down we go!

View attachment 12485

Boy I wish I could work out those standings KOB! They got me buggered, I know you supposed to get more points if you win away or something, and if you beat a team lower than youself you get nothing much in the way of points, so I just wait to someone with more brains than me (not hard to find I know) like yourself can just tell me.

 

[Hookerbytrade]

Tonight's game - attacking breakdown cleanout accuracy and stronger ball carrying/retention will be critical to providing some front foot and cleaner ball in all parts of the field will be critical. There were numerous times players became isolated and the French capitalised on this to steal ball which shouldn't have been lost in the first place.

This is exactly what I was concerned about prior to KO last night and the issue hasn't gone away... the forward pack lacked being clinical, accurate and urgent in removing the on ball threats of the french and it cost us dearly. All Wallabies interviewed last night identified this, I'm not one to point fingers as it takes 23 players to win 80 minutes of football but there were some players that lacked the exact accuracy, clinical and urgency nature we need to remove the threat of the frogs on ballers.

Positively I thought the stronger ball carries across the park were evident, constantly threatening and gaining over the advantage line of the french defense (even though their D was outstanding) - this is a big positive, a part of the game they can hold their heads high for.

Lets go for Saturday!

 

[eastman]

Kills me every fkn time.

Top player who puts all in, plus 100 minute engine. Not an astute captain, though.

Doesn't have the happy knack of talking to referees, either. It's not in the kit bag.

Rennie is saying he will "use the squad" to change things up a bit for the next game.

I'd give the #8 a go with the captain's armband at Lang Park.

Hooper was vindicated with this decisions though- Australia scored a converted try and then the penalty to take the lead?

He can't be blamed for our scrum capitulating.

 

[Dctarget]

France benched their own French Thor, Bamba, who came on and destroyed us in that crucial scrum.

I thought LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) was largely ineffective and Philip more reliable but it seems that Swain is the swap for Philip.

I have huge wraps on Longeran but looks tiny out there, needs to spend a a good off season in the gym.

Surely throw Daugunu on, he actually provides another breakdown threat in the backs too which France used well with Danty.

 

[eastman]

Accuracy at ruck a fair bit.
Accuracy at lineout at critical times.
Accuracy at scrum the one time it REALLY fucking mattered.

French midfield far better than ours, and I think we're seeing that Paisami at Test level isn't anywhere near as good at 13 as he is at 12. To'omua was better tonight but still not exactly commanding.

That said: general improvement from everyone and it wasn't a complete disaster UNTIL you factor in France are missing most of their top team

Accuracy at the breakdown is not at the consistency where it needs to be - there was also a lack of physicality and urgency in defending the pick and go from the French and they were able to obtain momentum there too easily.

Not sure I agree that the French midfield was far better than ours though; yes they are physical and defend well but really both play like flankers in the 12/ 13 channel who run hard and compete at the breakdown. Our centres are definitely flawed, with Paisami losing the ball too often in contact and To'omua having no running game and his decision- making has been poor, but they still created more than the French.

The French played a little bit like a poor man's All Blacks; they competed hard at the breakdown and were able to make the most of their opportunities in counter when it mattered.

 

[cyclopath]

Nah it’s a valid point - perhaps with a bad example.
There was a noticeable difference on this skill in both games.
Gordons passes in close are telegraphed and straight to a forward just waiting to get clobbered.
Tate seemed to create half gaps either holding the pass a split second or passing to space. Helps the close in runners cross the gain line. That part of his game was clearly superior.

Most of the game our forward runners were static or barely moving and the French close defence is very good at one thing, clobbering people. Very few seemed to be setting to get the ball with some momentum, with a few exceptions - Slipper with one, Tupou and Wilson with a half break. It was easy pickings for the French. It did improve later in the game - you reckon it's all down to McDermott; it probably is just as much down to structures becoming looser - note Banks et al making some breaks through holes that wee not there earlier. I agree McDermott is playing better, hence my post earlier to start him and see if the front end of the game works as well for him.
The example used above was completely irrelevant and used as a cheap shot.

 

[KiwiM]

For the second week in a row we have been totally outclassed and outmuscled at the breakdown. Our backs are programmed and play the same way each time they get the ball.
No point waiting for it to change as it won't. You only have to listen to the coach, players and commentators talking about 'positives' to know there is absolutely no idea of how to address these weaknesses and they are comforted by the fact there will be no real critical evaluation or consequence.

So much of the post game commentary was about the breakdown.

 

[Rugby Head]

Would like to see the following team on Saturday:

1. Slipper
2. BPA
3. Thor
4. Phillip
5. Swain
6. Swinton
7. Hooper
8. Wilson
9. Gordon
10. Please tell me JOC (James O'Connor) is fit? If not, Lolesio
11. Marika (Superman)
12. Paisami
13. Ikitau
14. Petaia
15. Banks
16. Kaitu'u
17. Bell
18. AAA
19. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
20. Naisarani
21. McDermott
22. Lolesio/ To'omua
23. Hodge

Forwards: I've swapped LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) with Swain, I think he fades towards the end of games and gets lazy with his body height/ accuracy. Taken Valetini out for Swinton, we have been getting out muscled and Valetini has been passive for both games. Fingers crossed Swinton doesn't see red. Thought Lonergan was completely out of his depth, would like to see Kaitu'u given a crack.

Backs: Although I think Tate is better, I've left Gordon starting with Tate coming off the bench. He has been electric and believe he's more suited to closing the game. Lolesio was much improved in the 2nd, but hoping O'Connor is back to be that cool head for the team. That was Tooumua's role for the first two test, but has proved ineffective and passive, he is barely a running threat just playing as a distributer. Ikitau deserves a start, thought he provided a real spark and provided go forward- him/ Paisami will be bruising. Hodge deserves a run, Kellaway offers nothing and Hodge is more versatile. Wright had a shocker, time to send in Petaia.

Thoughts?

 

[Derpus]

I would still prefer AAA on at the start and Tupou on at the end. I guess AAA doesn't throw that pass, but we also probably don't lose that scrum. He'd also get more chances to do his linebreaking thing.

 

[cyclopath]

Anyone got any ideas on why our attacking rucks stink?

You could see the downhill slide in the Tests last year, the alarming thing is it hasn’t been corrected. We are getting owned when we have the ball.

Lack of one or two massive units to protect the ball and inaccurate cleaning out a lot of the time.

 

[Adam84]

Lack of one or two massive units to protect the ball and inaccurate cleaning out a lot of the time.

I don't think it was a size issue, rather the issue was speed to the ruck and inaccurate cleaning out, both compounded by the referees liberal interpretations of the rule around releasing the tackled player.

Many of the turnovers happened in open play when there was either no one to support the ball carrier, or the person who did was inaccurate in their cleanout.

 

[Sheepie]

The Wallabies were our own worst enemies tonight. All the usual perpetual problems that tend to plague the Wallabies year on year on year on year.

* In the attacking 10m, basic skills. Dropping the ball cold or knocking on unforced. Very very slow ball giving the opposition plenty of time to reset and firm up their lines. Basic ball skills deteriorating in the attacking 22 the closer we get to the line.

* Missing in support. Someone makes a break and everyone else on the field reacts "Oh, great. He's done the magic so I can use this moment to sneak a few breaths" rather than "He's made a break, he needs support runners to offload to or people to the breakdown should they bring him down". This is more an attitude problem causing the lack of support. Noah made at least 3 breaks then got tackled, EVERY player on screen I could see immediately started getting in position to receive for the next phase. NOBODY went in to protect the ball and actually retrieve the ball.

* Our kicking often ends up putting us under more pressure than we were under before the kick (our kicking has improved in the last year or two but still has a lot of improvement needed). These last two matches were worse than during the Super Rugby season and worse than last year. Better kicks. SMARTER kicks. Not just short-period pressure relievers.

A few things I noticed were unique to tonight.

* We were VERY lucky not to be carded numerous times on our own defensive try line.

* The French appear to have been studying the Allblacks & Crusaders. Lying all over the breakdown & tackled player so the 9 can't get to the ball cleanly if not to the ruck itself cleanly. Loitering around behind the tackled player so additional Wallabies players couldn't get to it. The one time we did something about it WE got punished.

* Tupou has proven that as well as being a THP & winger, he's also a half-back. Can we clone him and make a team that's just 15 Taniela Tupou's? We _NEED_ to see what he's like with the boot.

* We're going back to the Cheika times of not kicking at all? To my eyes it didn't look like running it was ever completely the wrong option as it did many times under Cheika, but there was definitely a void of even attempting to kick last night especially.

When it comes to individual players ...

* Gordon isn't up to the quality he had last year. Every game has improved when Tate came on. I still support Gordon as a backup but I definitely want to see Tate getting a start.

* To'omua was better tonight, but I'd like him to be given a rest and see a different 12/13 combo.

* Banks also improved tonight, but not good enough. But who do you bring on in his place if Hodge is still injured? Someone out of position?

 

[Adam84]

As a 10/11 year old we practiced a drill where you would pass the ball to a player who was tackled and it was then your job to get to the player and secure ball. We had a Queensland schoolboys coach(son was in the team) and we did this drill every session routinely.

Suggest the Wallabies could use the same drill.