24 Team World Cup

[Bardon]

Sadly the Challenge Cup got fucked over by the English and French team revolts.

The restructuring of the European Cup (Formerly Heineken Cup) and the Challenge Cup sees less places for lesser nations and instead the Challenge Cup is flooded with teams from the lower reaches of the Aviva, Top 14 and Pro12. There are now only 2 spots left for the qualifying competition. It hurt the pocket books of the big spending mid table English and French clubs to have to play these minnow teams so most of them have been shunted into a third tier competiton.

That third tier competiton didn't happen this year and is postponed indefinitely. Hopefully it happens next season as there's plenty of enthusiasm for it among the clubs. But as it's outside of the umbrella that the two larger competition fall under there's a lack of real momentum and financing to get it up and running.

It's just the start of things after power shifted from the Unions to the clubs last year. Expect smaller clubs and Unions to be royally screwed over to the benefit of the rich privately owned clubs.

The expansion of the 6 nations and raising the profile of 2nd and 3rd tier pan-European International competitions might be a way forward but the 6 Nations council don't seem to be in too much of a hurry to do that either. Now that they're running both the elite European club and international competitions there needs to be a separate body with some real power and financial backing to bring along the 2nd tier nations.

Those same nations that have benefited under the old system had absolutely no say in the restructuring and as clubs and unions jockeyed to ensure it wasn't them that got shafted unsurprisingly those without a voice got shit on by the 6 Nations unions and clubs.

There's definitely the potential for huge growth in European rugby but no one wants to stump up the cash or give up power to make it happen. With the rich English and French clubs now calling the shots up north the phrase "Turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas" comes to mind.

 

[Bardon]

It is good to see the gap between top tier and second tier teams getting closer.

This gap wont improve by playing every four years against better teams.

We need the IRB to assist funding tours for sub national tier one teams to tier two teams.

Each year we send a Wallabies team to Europe and play basically the same teams on a rotational basis.

It would be great if we could send a "best of the rest" 2nd XV for a spring tour too other teams like Russia and Georgia.

The European teams could do the same to the pacific Islands and Africa each year.

The European teams already have 2nd teams that do tours, the Saxons, Wolfhounds etc. But they're used to open markets that are seen as commercially viable long term. For many years that meant attending the Churchill Cup in the US.

Ireland sent an Emerging Ireland (Ireland C) team to Georgia to compete in the Tiblisi cup against Georgia, Italy B and Uruguay.

But we need to be doing more of this rather than everyone chasing the commercially viable stuff. It's so easy for each of the big unions or the two big organisations (6Ns and SANZAR) to just focus on development that's benificial to themselves. That's their remit after all.

But I feel that World Rugby needs to do more to encourage the big nations to give these smaller nations a leg up. Relying on the unions to do it off their own bat is increasingly fraught with danger as the game becomes more professional and the clubs (especially in Europe) get more powerful.

 

[Omar Comin']

Basically the developing unions need to be included in more meaningful tournaments outside of world cups. But they also have to be able to access their best players.

The 6 Nations is unlikely to change and the Rugby Championship unlikely to expand in the short term. But I would love to see a genuine European Championship with 12 teams (3 pools of 4) and a Confederations Cup (same format - or possibly even 16 teams from the rest of the world) every 4 years between world cups. And I'd have them either in place of the 6 Nations and RC for those years or in the June window.

 

[Bring Back The Ruck]

Does anyone know what's going to happen with qualifying for next World Cup
Fiji Samoa and Tonga all have to qualify next time
If it follows same idea as this year two would miss out
I assume they will both go into repechage and all three will make it but I guess another european team and Asian team will get in (compared to this time) and two current teams will miss out?

 

[TOCC]

I would like to see a second asian team in the 2019 RWC, but not at the expense of a team who is better then them. Hong Kong are the next highest ranked asian teams behind Japan sitting at 24th and 25th on World Rugby rankings, If one of those teams were to make it to the RWC it would give a massive boost to the sport in that country.

Hong Kong are targeting the 2019 RWC with their XV's program.

 

[ACT Crusader]

the door might open for Russia to come back in.

 

[Omar Comin']

WR (World Rugby) haven't announced how it will work yet. I think 1 of the automatic European spots could transfer to Oceania given Georgia have auto qualified.

I hope they'll keep an automatic spot for Asia. That'll give South Korea and Hong Kong huge incentive to improve over the next 4 years. They're already ranked 24th and 25th so they're not miles away. The Japanese Union are pushing for it and I think it's important for the development of the game in Asia.

 

[Highlander35]

Nick the 2nd Auto Qualifier from Europe and the Repechage spot from Asia, badabing badaboom, you got yourself a way to get all the Pacific sides if they deserve it, while still giving a spot to an Asian side. Sucks for whichever team would have been Europe 2/9, but what can you do.

 

[Cpt Crow Eater]

Not sure where to post this but thought some here may find it interesting!

While watching the the Germany-Georgia Euro Cup qualifier last night here in Germany, the commentator mentioned some interesting tidbits about Rugby.

They are building 12 new Rugby stadiums around the country and the tickets are planned to be free to attend to attract crowds.

The World Cup is being televised here on Eurosport (free to air) and the channel has been so impressed with viewing numbers they have increased the amount of games shown from 23 to 26 and now 32. I have read that for the first three games of the tournament, they had 2.3 million viewers.

The commentators here are doing a great job explaining the rules and teams to the viewers and have even created a "Rugby For Dummies" website which received 1 million hits on the first weekend of pool rounds.

Lot of potential here and its great to hear talk from World Rugby of trying to enter the market.

Perhaps the wrong thread to post but its great to see the effect the world cup in a friendly time zone can have on up and coming audiences!

 

[Omar Comin']

That's awesome. You just know that Germany could be great at rugby. They'd be really fast and well structured and wouldn't lack for size.

Germany actually just participated in the Noosa 7's and lost in the semi finals to the NZ Development team 17-12. That team was coached by Gordon Tietjens, so no doubt it was a pretty strong side.

 

[Highlander35]

They won promotion to ENC Div1A last year I think, so the team is in the best place to improve if the ones up top decided to do something about it.

 

[Omar Comin']

They won promotion to ENC Div1A last year I think, so the team is in the best place to improve if the ones up top decided to do something about it.

It was in 2014. Those ENC divisions are on a 2 year cycle so their first year in Div1A was this year. They lost every match but got close to Romania (12-17) and Portugal (3-11).

 

[RugbyFuture]

No country would be guaranteed a place, except those who qualify, one way or the other.


If we are talking about our druthers, I would rather have a team badged "People's Republic of China". Most of the players would be from the Hong Kong representative team initially - but who knows, it might lead finally to some serious Chinese involvement in our code.


I'd like to see that!!!

Associating Hong Kong people directly with China would be a big mistake, one of the reason we had a rush here of Hong Kong chinese in the 90's was to escape the turnover of rule from british to chinese, I know my family left China for Hong Kong because they didn't neccessarily agree with the parties ideologies. This is still very popular sentiment across Hong Kong (hence the protests).

 

[RugbyFuture]

Why not have a plate up for grabs post finals qualifications, so you keep the non qualified teams there till the end, and have them play for something? Reward them for being there and being great, give them something to strive for if they can't get Bill.

Alternatively a charity barbarians match of the best players from non qualified teams playing eachother...

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I'm with you @Rugby Future.

It would also mean that England could win something.

Teams 3 and 4 in each pool compete for the RWC Plate in a QF, SF, GF knockout tournament, with team 5 in each pool going home early.

The RWC is forecast to make about $150m USD profit. It wouldn't break the bank to keep 8 teams around for one more week, 4 teams for another week and two for yet another week. The games could be played at regional centres that usually wouldn't get quality International rugby games, and venue hire would be less.

This would provide 7 more games worth of content to sell into "minnow" markets like Japan, USA and other Countries which IRB have identified as potential growth and expansion areas.

Using this years final Pool places, the World Rugby Plate competition would be:

QF 1: 3rd Pool A v 4th Pool D: ENG v ROM
QF 2: 3rd Pool B v 4th Pool C: JAP v TON
QF 3: 3rd Pool C v 4th Pool A: GEO v FIJ
QF 4: 3rd Pool D v 4th Pool B: ITA v SAM

SF 1: Winner QF 1 v Winner QF 2
SF 2: Winner QF 3 v Winner QF 3

World Rugby Plate Final: Winner SF 1 v Winner SF 2

 

[KevinO]

I disagree with the plate competition, it works in 7's as they are playing multi able games a day at the same venue.

Imagine you had to slot another 4 games into time slots this weekend, they would end up making the real quarter finals the prime time games for the UK market and not worring about the Southern Hemisphere fans tv times.

At the moment the games are 11pm and 6am (AEST)

If it was 4 games a day they would be torture, leaving extra time inbetween cup games for post and pre game show the matches would be something like:
11pm (Plate)
1:45am (Cup)
4:30am (Cup)
7:15am (Plate)

I am struggling enough as it is with all the late nights let alone having two games which are must watch in the middle of the night.

 

[Highlander35]

It'd potentially work in a 24 team cup, you could use the bottom 8, and have them play midweek fixtures. The games could go like this:

Weekend 1: 1st Round of pool fixtures
Weekend 2: 2nd round of pool fixtures
Weekend 3: Final Round of pool fixtures
Weekend 4: Round of 16
Midweek 1: Plate Quarters
Weekend 5: Cup Quarters
Midweek 2: Plate Semis
Weekend 6: Cup Semis
Friday 7: Plate Final
Saturday 7: 3rd Place playoff
Sunday 7: Cup Final

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree with the plate competition, it works in 7's as they are playing multi able games a day at the same venue.

Imagine you had to slot another 4 games into time slots this weekend, they would end up making the real quarter finals the prime time games for the UK market and not worring about the Southern Hemisphere fans tv times.

At the moment the games are 11pm and 6am (AEST)

If it was 4 games a day they would be torture, leaving extra time inbetween cup games for post and pre game show the matches would be something like:
11pm (Plate)
1:45am (Cup)
4:30am (Cup)
7:15am (Plate)

I am struggling enough as it is with all the late nights let alone having two games which are must watch in the middle of the night.

I think if you did it, you could make it midweek games.

Don't have anything this weekend, then have an 8pm game next Wednesday and Thursday (6am Sydney time), and then the final the following week.

Then you've got two extra matches between the real QFs and SFs and then the plate final a few days before the real final.

I guess it would come down to determining how much extra revenue you could create from those three extra matches.

 

[wamberal]

Associating Hong Kong people directly with China would be a big mistake, one of the reason we had a rush here of Hong Kong chinese in the 90's was to escape the turnover of rule from british to chinese, I know my family left China for Hong Kong because they didn't neccessarily agree with the parties ideologies. This is still very popular sentiment across Hong Kong (hence the protests).

The inescapable truth is that Hong Kong is, and always has been, part of China.


The "one country, two systems" period lasts until 2047. That is a fair way off, but it will happen, no matter what you, or I, think about it.


Hong Kong is a dead end street for rugby, very few stadiums, and a player base that is limited to say the least.


A lot of my staff emigrated to Canada or Australia after Tiananmen. Many of them have since returned- some have even retired there (which really surprised me), quite a few over the (old) border.

They seem pretty relaxed about living in China. If they were rugby supporters, why wouldn't they enjoy seeing China competing on the big stage?

The mistake would be to ignore China. Protests did not change the fact that Hong Kong is not independent, and never will be.

 

[RugbyFuture]

We shouldn't ignore china (though Australians tend to talk China up like its the only hope for any future) and I personally have no bias against them. However if the people representing Hong Kong wanted to represent China they would have already (and they are represented as separate nations under the IRB, Olympic Committee and other sporting bodies). Forcing it just because one country has potential and the other has none would be a blight on our game and would set a precedent for the assimilation of other smaller places. Which should never happen.

Its like saying we shouldn't play any games against Samoa, Tonga and Fiji in their countr....oh wait.