2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Inside Shoulder]

You'd have to start somewhere, identifying players early enough (ironically NZ does it with success) adding and dropping players along the way with camps, by the way some of this would be outside of the 7s tour window an added advantage which would save being introduced to some of your fellow team mates at the JWC, with final team selection after the Oceania games.


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I don't know if its the
Duke of Endinburgh's influence or what but forget the camps - this is where they learn their automaton ways and fail to develop game sense. Im sure we could a world cup in arranging plastic cone in new and challenging grids to train proprioception and soft hands - but there is no world cup in those disciplines.
These guys need games and not games where one team (sydney Uni 1st grade colts) is belting another (Randwick 1st grade colts) 69 to 5.
Camps simply will not replicate hard matches on a weekly basis - there should be fewer camps not more.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't think that principle can work as a blanket rule.

I don't think the coach should be required to exclude them either.

He's selected 3 7s players which is more than normal. Two of those three were in the squad last year. The third would have been if he'd been released from the 7s squad (or not injured, I can't remember what the situation was).

I don't think you should be calling in aid of your argument anything based on the last 3 or 4 years worth of U20s teams - they have been abysmal

 

[Happy to Chat]

Hogwash, you need to know the guys playing next to you, you need to be passing the ball together, learning the "Aus 20 Coach's" ways and drills, get to know each other and build a team culture and spirit where you genuinely play for each other, not come together at a championship and play your arse off as an individual to try and make the team. The more camps the better!


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[kiap]

These guys need games and not games where one team (sydney Uni 1st grade colts) is belting another (Randwick 1st grade colts) 69 to 5.
Camps simply will not replicate hard matches on a weekly basis - there should be fewer camps not more.

Get on board with my "Penrith" plan.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hogwash, you need to know the guys playing next to you, you need to be passing the ball together, learning the "Aus 20 Coach's" ways and drills, get to know each other and build a team culture and spirit where you genuinely play for each other, not come together at a championship and play your arse off as an individual to try and make the team. The more camps the better!


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camps and drills make you good at camping and drilling - and that is whats fucked with aus rugby

 

[Braveheart81]

A big problem is just the timing of the tournament.

It's too early in the season for our players to have played that much rugby, regardless of the programme we create.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Get on board with my "Penrith" plan.

Penrith plan? Please explain

 

[thebreakdown]

There will always be criticism bout all selections but nothing will change unless injuries arise. Few players shouldn't be there and few players should've been in. The Oceania tournament for us was terrible in terms of skill level. NZ were far more superior. I hope Stewart can bring some comfort to the side along with the 7s players. If one player that was unlucky to get the nod, I would've stuck with Jayden Ngamanu. All the best to all players selected and hope they gel well before kickoff to JWC.


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[Happy to Chat]

A lot of pressure on Stewart given he has only had the best part of 15 min game time since the 20's final where he could have had 240 min. I still think it was selfish and foolish to take him away from the Oceania Tournament to sit on the bench for the Reds rather than play u20s.


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[kiap]

Penrith plan? Please explain

A suggestion to select a wider squad of players a year out. Instead of 3-4 matches together under the U20s coaches before the world champs, get it up over 10 or more. It takes time for coaching to stick.

Put U20 players and their coaches into the Shute and QPR.

Impossible, you might say. But Penrith are having 50 points put on them every week anyway at the moment. Administrators step in and take over, parachute in the U20s head coach. The top 5-10 Penrith players stay in the first grade squad and, say, 15-20 under 20s play in the squad for most of the season. Harden them up playing with and against teams of men.

But what about Queenslanders, et al., - costs and logistics too steep to move their U20s to Sydney for months on end? Replicate the plan in Premier Rugby with Logan City. At the moment Logan won't cut the mustard playing at top grade. Keep the top 5-10 Logan players in the first grade squad and parachute in the U20s deputy coach and another 15-20 under u20s. Harden up the northern U20s lads by putting them on the train down to Logan for training and matches.

Swap some players between the two clubs for month or so at a time to test combinations. Players selected from each of Canberra, Melbourne, Perth get the choice of playing at home or temporarily moving for the U20s campaign.

After the club season an option may be to enter the U20s team in the NRC, as per HTC's suggestion. Or they progress to the national U20s/Oceania comp before the world champs. Players then still eligible get the option to continue another year.

 

[Highlander35]

NRC U19s. Maybe with 3 or 4 overagers a teams

The vast majority of players for both the Super U20s and the final squads SHOULD be coming from those in their U20 year, who've had the full year out of school before the season begins, and so should be able to participate in an U19 comp without interrupting Schooling.

If a School leaver is good enough to be in the squad in the first place, he wouldn't be overly disadvantaged by missing out.

Gives more exposure to the players who currently leave NSW/QLD to get Starts/Game Day Squad places in the other states too.

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[kiap]

NRC U19s. Maybe with 3 or 4 overagers a teams

Good idea and has fairness but also some issues.

Finding the cash will be very tight due to the logistics of, what is it 8 teams x 7 rounds nationwide. The NRC only scrapes by due to sponsorship including from the broadcaster which the underage comp won't match. The Super U20s is 5 x 4.

8 teams also scatters the players widely so you are not developing the national U20 side itself the same as just 1 team in the main NRC would.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You blokes must think the ARU is looking for ways to spend money to improve the game.
Where have you been?

 

[The Honey Badger]

A suggestion to select a wider squad of players a year out. Instead of 3-4 matches together under the U20s coaches before the world champs, get it up over 10 or more. It takes time for coaching to stick.

Put U20 players and their coaches into the Shute and QPR.

Impossible, you might say. But Penrith are having 50 points put on them every week anyway at the moment. Administrators step in and take over, parachute in the U20s head coach. The top 5-10 Penrith players stay in the first grade squad and, say, 15-20 under 20s play in the squad for most of the season. Harden them up playing with and against teams of men.

But what about Queenslanders, et al., - costs and logistics too steep to move their U20s to Sydney for months on end? Replicate the plan in Premier Rugby with Logan City. At the moment Logan won't cut the mustard playing at top grade. Keep the top 5-10 Logan players in the first grade squad and parachute in the U20s deputy coach and another 15-20 under u20s. Harden up the northern U20s lads by putting them on the train down to Logan for training and matches.

Swap some players between the two clubs for month or so at a time to test combinations. Players selected from each of Canberra, Melbourne, Perth get the choice of playing at home or temporarily moving for the U20s campaign.

After the club season an option may be to enter the U20s team in the NRC, as per HTC's suggestion. Or they progress to the national U20s/Oceania comp before the world champs. Players then still eligible get the option to continue another year.

Don't mind that idea. Got some merit.

Perhaps, put the identified boys on a roster, so they don't get alienated from their club. Play grade for Penrith every second or third round, . Maybe West's get some too.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Agree,

I haven't seen Blyth play, I know he was injured for much of last year and missed schoolboy champs.

He is obviously very tall, and clearly Cron must rate him very highly to get a place ahead of these 2.

Came on late in the match against Fiji and didn't impress as much as both Swain and Swinton. Both SW's seem to have more technical expertise and a lot more aggression.

 

[TOCC]

If these guys were playing club rugby instead of the current programme they'd have only played 6 games by now wouldn't they?

The timing of the World Cup is far from ideal for us but I'm not sure they are better served not playing the Super 20s and Oceania Cup.

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That's right, abstain from the Junior World Championship, get the boys all playing club rugby.. Malolo is case and point, Australia's reserve hooker but only plays 29mins of rugby in a 10 week period.. right away that tells you something is broken..

The best development is actually playing rugby, not stupid camps and scraps of bench time.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It odd that it is placed where it is in the calendar.
The RWC sits between north and south seasons - not sure why they couldn't run it then - even 3 out of 4 years and move it the 4th time so as not clash with the RWC.
My impression is that the 6 nations test teams are much closer to their U20s than is the case here.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Came on late in the match against Fiji and didn't impress as much as both Swain and Swinton. Both SW's seem to have more technical expertise and a lot more aggression.

I was thinking along these lines. As far as I know he played very little last year and no rep football.

So massive step up from playing for school.

As apposed to Swinton who played 1st grade for Uni last year.

Good luck to him, clearly he has impressed. His height clearly a big asset, and maybe his role will be to win the set piece.

 

[Brumby Runner]

One of the very few highlights from the Aus side v Fiji was the consistently very good kick off receipts that Swain made. About the only aspect of the game where real skill was shown. Sorry that it wasn't rewarded, along with his higher than others' workload around the ground.

Have to confess, after posting that the NZers would put 50 on our side, I just couldn't bring myself to watch the mauling as it duly transpired. Wasn't far wrong with the points to be scored by NZ either.

 

[Breaks_Away]

Hogwash, you need to know the guys playing next to you, you need to be passing the ball together, learning the "Aus 20 Coach's" ways and drills, get to know each other and build a team culture and spirit where you genuinely play for each other, not come together at a championship and play your arse off as an individual to try and make the team. The more camps the better!


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Well said HTC


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