2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Happy to Chat]

To me, you pick the best players and if those happen to play 7's at the moment so be it and some boys lose there places.

Best at XV or best at sevens??


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[Wood Rat]

I must have missed this on this thread, but what a heartening story:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...h/news-story/f9db6969240ede93de113fa829d87add

Excuse me if I don't share the excitement, I get its a lovely story but there are plenty that have gone through the process that haven't had a fair crack as well.
Constantly looking for a projected personality, that doesn't exist based on a hairdo or an as yet undiscovered talent that will miraculously absorb the skill sets and headspace of front row at higher levels in three weeks.

And this helps team cohesion or a sense reward for constant and persistent work ethic how?

FFS

 

[Braveheart81]

Best at XV or best at sevens??

They're probably both though.

Kennewell and McNamara were in the squad last year and Hutchison would have been if not required for 7s.

Given the poor showing by a number of backs against Fiji, I think rolling the dice with some of the 7s guys makes sense.

 

[RugbyReg]

Excuse me if I don't share the excitement, I get its a lovely story but there are plenty that have gone through the process that haven't had a fair crack as well.
Constantly looking for a projected personality, that doesn't exist based on a hairdo or an as yet undiscovered talent that will miraculously absorb the skill sets and headspace of front row at higher levels in three weeks.

And this helps team cohesion or a sense reward for constant and persistent work ethic how?

FFS

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there but I like that there is some talent ID still happening outside of the GPS school and academy programs.

 

[Wood Rat]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there but I like that there is some talent ID still happening outside of the GPS school and academy programs.

Its absolutely brilliant that there is .... great ...... he has been spotted get him in the development program find him a scholarship or an apprenticeship take him to Sydney or Brisbane and start developing this raw talent.

this is meant to be a national representative team not a ffff development program he has not been tested by the training regimen that the others have gone through If he is 19 he has another year to develop to make this team... use it

I understand that the Super u20 squads had huge amounts of data collected on their training their size development their fitness and strength... months of technique development and oppose work.
Dont Exclude the lad from development squads by any means but to totally skirt the development programs that has gone on over the past months undermines the value of that development programme and insult the commitment that those that have taken part in it have made.

Tell the lads that have given up apprenticeships or compromised their study they they are the but of a bad joke and shouldn't have wasted their time or alternatively they have been seen and are no longer worth developing because someone better was found busking at the local woolies.

 

[Moonrat]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there but I like that there is some talent ID still happening outside of the GPS school and academy programs.

Unless your little solider has been running around in the U20's as a LHP and didn't get selected?
But on a serious note it is a great story, a lifeline for all of those players who missed a cut because of XY or Z.
Not sure to the relevance of cauliflower ears to the story, its like saying I get offered a job everytime I'm holding a beer in a hotel.

 

[Wood Rat]

Unless your little solider has been running around in the U20's as a LHP and didn't get selected?
But on a serious note it is a great story, a lifeline for all of those players who missed a cut because of XY or Z.
Not sure to the relevance of cauliflower ears to the story, its like saying I get offered a job everytime I'm holding a beer in a hotel.

Not a LHP but same principal

 

[TOCC]

Nah disagree with ya. ANY test match is more important than any Super Rugby event (except possibly Super Rugby semi/final). This is not me talking it's the IRB. So they must think it's important. A test match is a test match irrespective of age etc.

They are (test matches) particularly more important particularly given the returns of the Aust. Franchises in Super Rugby are going.

On a more interesting note, anyone confirm that the ARU "news" that they won't (in the future) be offering Super Rugby contracts to u 20's? Interesting turn around; maybe club rugby and plenty of it is the answer to improving the young guns performances rather than holding tackle bags for the Super Rugby crew?


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My point isn't whether a test match is more valuable or not, the point I'm making is the the Under 20s program means less game time for the players in their formative years.

There are guys in the squad who will be bench players for the entirety of the tournament, some may only get 30min across this whole Oceania Championship. And considering for some that the 4 game Super Rugby U20 series finished in March, that could mean, over the preceding 2 month period, some guys have had 30min of game time. Im sure for the 1st XV the whole process is an extremely beneficial one, but what about the rest?

Australian Rugby and talent identification needs to be achieved by casting the net as wide as possible during the entirety of the formative years, however through the U20s program, it isolates the group and creates a pathway of exclusivity. U20's players are drafted in based on Schoolboy representative honours, if you aren't in the Schoolboy mix, you will find it hard to make the U20s squads since they are picked before the Colts season.

Some of the best U20's players in the country will play half a dozen games this year, IMO they should be all playing a full season of Premier Colts/Premier Rugby instead with some form of Oceania tournament following that. At the moment, Australian Rugby has the cart before the horse.

 

[The sage]

My point isn't whether a test match is more valuable or not, the point I'm making is the the Under 20s program means less game time for the players in their formative years.

There are guys in the squad who will be bench players for the entirety of the tournament, some may only get 30min across this whole Oceania Championship. And considering for some that the 4 game Super Rugby U20 series finished in March, that could mean, over the preceding 2 month period, some guys have had 30min of game time. Im sure for the 1st XV the whole process is an extremely beneficial one, but what about the rest?

Australian Rugby and talent identification needs to be achieved by casting the net as wide as possible during the entirety of the formative years, however through the U20s program, it isolates the group and creates a pathway of exclusivity. U20's players are drafted in based on Schoolboy representative honours, if you aren't in the Schoolboy mix, you will find it hard to make the U20s squads since they are picked before the Colts season.

Some of the best U20's players in the country will play half a dozen games this year, IMO they should be all playing a full season of Premier Colts/Premier Rugby instead with some form of tournament proceeding that. At the moment, Australian Rugby has the cart before the horse.

No like your point, particularly playing as much competitive rugby as possible (pre & prem colts). I was watching Brothers v UQ on the weekend with T Shaw and we discussed exactly that point. Whilst UQ dominated, the level of rugby was solid, fast and skilled, everything a young rooster would want to hone his skills. Think this is a much more inclusive benchmark then the current selection method.

A further note that the players considered for the Qld u20 Reds were predetermined to what I believe the exclusion of some players. Not saying that the other players would have made the team, but they weren't given the chance to. There was some good rugby played in prem colts last year in Brisbane and the u20's Aussie guys did join their clubs at the semi finals with not too much impact. This is probably why a lot of these Bris Prem Colts players all of a sudden turned up in the Vic team and the ACT teams. I agree that merit needs more consideration.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

On a more interesting note, anyone confirm that the ARU "news" that they won't (in the future) be offering Super Rugby contracts to u 20's? Interesting turn around; maybe club rugby and plenty of it is the answer to improving the young guns performances rather than holding tackle bags for the Super Rugby crew?

The ARU don't pay the super contracts unless we're talking Wallabies - do they?

 

[Strewthcobber]

The ARU don't pay the super contracts unless we're talking Wallabies - do they?

Every pro in Australia has a contract with the ARU though don't they?

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[The sage]

The ARU don't pay the super contracts unless we're talking Wallabies - do they?

No they don't, however money does pass from the aru to the state franchises, in a similar fashion as the federal gov. does to the states; so there is some influence on policy and direction.


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[thebreakdown]

Ok guys great to read all the feedback from Tuesdays game, not a lot of positives but that was expected hey? Viewed the game on streamline and IMO, Fiji probably played outta their skins. our boys buckled to the physicality they bought to us, causing all types of mayhem. The preparation to play certain teams is sometimes a mental approach not so much technical. Fiji, Tonga, bring intimidating qualities and those qualities if successful will bring confidence. There may be a few changes in positions this weekend however we need to install dominance. Dominance in defence, rucks, attack. These qualities lift players to another level. Qualities that you can't coach!. I'm sure we been around long enuf to understand that!! Get that sorted and your halfway there!!!


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[Inside Shoulder]

No they don't, however money does pass from the aru to the state franchises, in a similar fashion as the federal gov. does to the states; so there is some influence on policy and direction.


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Has the ARU told the franchises not to sign players elligible for u20s

 

[Moonrat]

I

Ok guys great to read all the feedback from Tuesdays game, not a lot of positives but that was expected hey? Viewed the game on streamline and IMO, Fiji probably played outta their skins. our boys buckled to the physicality they bought to us, causing all types of mayhem. The preparation to play certain teams is sometimes a mental approach not so much technical. Fiji, Tonga, bring intimidating qualities and those qualities if successful will bring confidence. There may be a few changes in positions this weekend however we need to install dominance. Dominance in defence, rucks, attack. These qualities lift players to another level. Qualities that you can't coach!. I'm sure we been around long enuf to understand that!! Get that sorted and your halfway there!!!


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I've watched the game a number of times and can't agree with you - Cron got it right for me, set piece and ball handling killed the game. I also feel that certain players are being "promoted" without due cause (Probably by the state union)
The Back row is a real area of concern for me-
Reece Hewat is a myth, he barely played in the u20 Champs because of returning from injury but when he did he was a shadow of Tafa who had had time the shirt. He would appear to be the darling of QLD hierarchy.
Angus Scott Young literally can't seem to do anything wrong in the eyes of the commentators yet doesn't look like a genuine 6 to me. Wright is a 6 come 7. The backrow will be vitally important going into Georgia and balance is the key.
I'd run 6 Swinton, 7 Allen and 8 ASY (Angus Scott-Young). It offers a (6)3rd line option who is aggressive in the tackle, (7)a genuine fetcher and a (8)ball runner/ aggressive defender.

Oh and if Hunt is the best 12 in the country, who'd want to be a 13. Oak just can't pass.

Lets be honest if this team is to do well in Georgia the likes of Samoa and Fiji will be the least of their worries (no offence intended to the Samoa or Fiji)

 

[Happy to Chat]

IMO I'd put Jooste or Ikatua at 12 for the NZ game to get the ball moving along the backline. For me, Hunt should be playing in the forwards, you're right EDIT: he doesn't have the hands for a backline player.


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[thebreakdown]

Moonrat, you're right, ball handling & set piece killed us mate, why?, because Fiji applied aggression in their defence. They absolutely thrive on that shit! and that's what I believe caused disruption in some parts of our game. We let them play their style of rugby and that confused our defence pattern. Play to the structure but bring the beast with it! I'm hoping to see that on Saturday.


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[thebreakdown]

Be interesting to see who the mid fielders they gona go with? I don't think Jooste will ever be a threat at 12. Hunt has no offloading skill, maybe Ikitau would be my pick 12 but is he a 13??


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[Happy to Chat]

Brumbies like him as a 12


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[Getwithme]

But he played 13 for all of the u20's game didn't he?