2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Lee Grant]

McCauley is not a physical lock - more an athletic type. He's strong through the hips but his upper body is not powerful. It ain't his fault - he was just built that way.

His future is as LH second-rower pairing with a strong TH lock in the scrum. His type-for type rival for Aus U20 honours is Queenslander Harry Hockings who was selected ahead of him for the 2016 World U20s though a year younger, and still 17 when the tournament finished.

Mind you, John Eales was hardly a bruiser, and he was one of our great Wallabies - but the way the scrum was played in his day, before the dawning of the power hit, it scarcely mattered which side of the scrum he played on.

McCauley will make his mark in Super Rugby one day but a power tight head lock, like near-contemporaries Lukhan T or Rodda, will always tend to rise sooner.
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[TOCC]

I'll also add to TOCC that many of the Super teams have their top 1/3 of Super 20s training with their senior squad to make up numbers. Maybe the Tahs are doing this?

Maybe they are on some days, but on this day the U20s had one part of the oval and the Waratahs has the other part

 

[OldColt]

McCauley is not a physical lock - more an athletic type. He's strong through the hips but his upper body is not powerful. It ain't his fault - he was just built that way.

His future is as LH second-rower pairing with a strong TH lock in the scrum. His type-for type rival for Aus U20 honours is Queenslander Harry Hockings who was selected ahead of him for the 2016 World U20s though a year younger, and still 17 when the tournament finished.

Mind you, John Eales was hardly a bruiser, and he was one of our great Wallabies - but the way the scrum was played in his day, before the dawning of the power hit, it scarcely mattered which side of the scrum he played on.

McCauley will make his mark in Super Rugby one day but a power tight head lock, like near-contemporaries Lukhan T or Rodda, will always tend to rise sooner.
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How's Tom Piroddi looking these days? He's not quite as tall as McCauley (but then again, who is, apart from Tui?), but had a much bigger build when they were at school, and I can only assume that a couple of seasons of Colts/Gen Blue preparation would've added some bulk. He's also got a massive motor, and a serious willingness to do the hard work.

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^^^^
He looks in good shape and Rapp said: "Tommy Piroddi from Randwick has come back at a different physical level so it’ll be interesting to see him play.”

You can't compare him to the likes of Lukhan and Rodda from the Aus U20s last year the way they compete in collisions.

But I'd like to see him in a 2017 trial game first before I sign off on him.
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[amirite]

LG - as a gut feel, how're the Oz U20s looking this year? Last year's crop was good but their performance was not.

Also - is Tuipolotu still qualified? His birthday is right on the cusp and I don't know the cut-off date.

 

[OldColt]

^^^^^^
He looks in good shape and Rapp said: "Tommy Piroddi from Randwick has come back at a different physical level so it’ll be interesting to see him play.”

You can't compare him to the likes of Lukhan and Rodda from the Aus U20s last year the way they compete in collisions.

But I'd like to see him in a 2017 trial game first before I sign off on him.
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I don't know about that, LG - Piroddi was pretty good at the collision stuff too and that was before coming back 'at a different physical level' - I guess we'll just have to wait and see, though.

 

[Happy to Chat]

LG - as a gut feel, how're the Oz U20s looking this year? Last year's crop was good but their performance was not.

Also - is Tuipolotu still qualified? His birthday is right on the cusp and I don't know the cut-off date.

I think it will depend on how many of the eligible boys that are currently in either a 7's contract or in a Super Rugby squad, that are released for Aus u20's. Tuipolotu is born 1997 so he should be eligible.


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[Lee Grant]

Sunia F is more an athletic, octopus arms offloader-type back rower, rather than a wrecking ball, for mine. Probably a long term 6. He did look like a wrecking ball in Schoolboys, but all the future professionals look that way there but when they're with guys more of their ilk their true points-of-difference emerge.

I think Rob might be injured already too, or at least the Rebels FB page has him travelling running clinics in Fiji, and I'd be surprised he was doing that in this part of the year if he was all good.

I'll also add to TOCC that many of the Super teams have their top 1/3 of Super 20s training with their senior squad to make up numbers. Maybe the Tahs are doing this?

Let's see how Sunia F goes - you could be right but he was bloody hard to stop in the school nationals. He will probably be picked as a lock for U20s but at 193cms now he may be too short to be a specialist senior lock - though you never know since he turned 18 just last September.

But at 111 kgs he has the right bulk, and is athletic as you say; so let's see where his future lies - 6 or 8. I just hope he doesn't go back to Auckland one day.

Rob Leota was a beast as a schoolboy, but the sooner the Rebels get him to be an 80 minute player, as opposed to just an impact player, the better.

Yep some of the NSW Gen Blue U20s trained with the senior Waratahs to date as they do every year, but I didn't notice any (apart from McCauley who has a Tahs EPS contract) at training when the Wallaby players came back this week.
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[The Honey Badger]

The last training session of 2016 right before Christmas was a combined one with the senior Waratahs. Not sure what senior players were present, but I think that has been the only combined session.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Let's see how Sunia F goes - you could be right but he was bloody hard to stop in the school nationals. He will probably be picked as a lock for U20s but at 193cms now he may be too short to be a specialist senior lock - though you never know since he turned 18 just last September.

But at 111 kgs he has the right bulk, and is athletic as you say; so let's see where his future lies - 6 or 8. I just hope he doesn't go back to Auckland one day.

Rob Leota was a beast as a schoolboy, but the sooner the Rebels get him to be an 80 minute player, as opposed to just an impact player, the better.

Yep some of the NSW Gen Blue U20s trained with the senior Waratahs to date as they do every year, but I didn't notice any (apart from McCauley who has a a Tahs EPS contract) at training when the Wallaby players came back this week.
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Lee,

Sunia played at the champs like a classic No 8, from 40 or more years ago.

He must have played a lot of Junior rugby as a back.

He was moonlighting at Fullback and all over the place, Both in defense and attack. Clearly they wanted him getting lots of ball with some space out wide.

It was was pretty to watch. (They used to say a good 8 could play every position on the field)

He is a great talent and for me 6 or 8 does not matter much.

Interesting to note at the schoolboys, the other specialist 8 got very little game time.

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah Sunia F can be a bit of a Kieran Read type, and also has good ball skills, but my word he was hard to stop near the line with the ball and could also make a dominant tackle.

As an elite lineout jumper also (at least in his U18 year against contemporaries in 2016) - he could be anything in our game, unless everything about him stops in its tracks.

Though young he should have a good chance to make the Aussie U20s in 2017; after all the Rebels chose him to start in the Super Rugby U20 final last year, five months before his 18th birthday.

The last training session of 2016 right before Christmas was a combined one with the senior Waratahs. Not sure what senior players were present, but I think that has been the only combined session.

Yea, those things usually happen at that time and I can remember the likes of Jack Dempsey running around with the seniors just after he left school.

But this pre-season a few like Tyzac Jordan and Harry Johnson-Holmes also trained with the seniors after the Xmas break, before the Wallabies returned.
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[Lee Grant]

LG - as a gut feel, how're the Oz U20s looking this year? Last year's crop was good but their performance was not.

The gut is not responding.

As I have indicated before, we had our best U20 tight five last year in ages as measured in effect and not on paper - but our backs were not impressive.

If we can get our T5 something close to the 2016 version, and all of Hutchison, Perese and Kennewell travelling to Georgia, we could have a shot at making the finals - if the halves are decent.

It's harder these days. One of South Africa and NZ are always there or thereabouts, and sometimes both, but it's difficult to compete with the 6N Under 20 system which helps England recalibrate for the World U20s, and the likes of Ireland, who made the final last year, to jump out of the woodwork.

I'd be surprised if Ireland has more U20 players to choose from than we do.

Our National U20 Championships which started in 2014 and its successor, the Super U20s - and the training for them - have at least stopped us from falling behind further than we would have without them.

We all have, or should have, ideas about how we can improve what we are doing, but ideas of improving what we are doing with what we have, are not so easy to come by.

There's one good thing going for us I suppose. The whingeing that was rabid in earlier year versions of this thread, that you had to be an elite player in schoolboy rugby to be considered for selection in state U20s later on - and therefore the national U20s - seems to have stopped.

But I digress.
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[sarcophilus]

"The gut is not responding.
.........
There's one good thing going for us I suppose. The whingeing that was rabid in earlier year versions of this thread, that you had to be an elite player in schoolboy rugby to be considered for selection in state U20s later on - and therefore the national U20s - seems to have stopped."

wow Lee a week since you posted this bit of honest observation, and no replies...good BBQ stopper

The gut should not be responding.
Those that have followed this mob through know the elite school boys received a fairly stern lesson in 2015. Though coaching was a significant contributor there should be no sense of entitlement amongst their supporters. The whingers don't need to say anything as plenty was said for them then. I am sure the sting will have stirred some extra passion.

 

[Happy to Chat]

Should we be banking on the sevens players returning to u20's. Surely the conditioning and training mindset differs vastly from 15's? I think there are players in the u20's comp to fill those positions. Because you're good at sevens doesn't mean you'll fit straight in at 15's. Playing and pacing yourself for 15 min games could hamper you in a 80 min game.


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[sarcophilus]

no. But they should not be excluded from demonstrating an ability to adapt either

 

[Silverado]

True, but they need to prove themselves in the curtain raiser cup before they get parachuted in. I was impressed with how the young guns performed in Wellington 7s but there's a different attack and defensive structure as well as body shapes required for the different forms of the game. I think HH would excel at both, but then it also comes down to whether he gets a release.


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[amirite]

True, but they need to prove themselves in the curtain raiser cup before they get parachuted in. I was impressed with how the young guns performed in Wellington 7s but there's a different attack and defensive structure as well as body shapes required for the different forms of the game. I think HH would excel at both, but then it also comes down to whether he gets a release.


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I'd be happy for them to prove themselves in camp and the warm up games, pre the final squad being named.

They are training in a fully professional environment after all.

 

[Silverado]

I'd be happy for them to prove themselves in camp and the warm up games, pre the final squad being named.

They are training in a fully professional environment after all.

Fair call, as long as they're better than the players who have concentrated on the 15 a side form of the game.


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[amirite]

Fair call, as long as they're better than the players who have concentrated on the 15 a side form of the game.

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Yeah, obviously. I think we'll see less and less of this though.

7s is being used less and less as a 'development' tool by the ARU and more and more as a separate but connected option for rugby players.

 

[Silverado]

Yeah, obviously. I think we'll see less and less of this though.

7s is being used less and less as a 'development' tool by the ARU and more and more as a separate but connected option for rugby players.

Yes, but also more and more as a seperate entity where their training focuses more on speed and agility and the 15s more bulk and power. There are obvious crossovers but they are very different games.


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