2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships - Manchester UK

[Hugh Jarse]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/manchester-host-2016-under-20-rugby-9464035

Manchester has been named as the venue for the 2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships (formerly known as the IRB Junior World Cup).

Pools are likely to be something like these:
Pool A
New Zealand
France
Ireland
Georgia (Qualifier from Junior World Trophy)

Pool B
England
Australia
Scotland
Italy

Pool C
South Africa
Wales
Argentina
Japan

To do better than our usual 5th position, we need to make it to the Semi-Finals and this is achieved by winning the two games against lower seeded teams with a 4 try bonus point, and secure one or more bonus points in a loss to the top seeded team in the pool or simply beat them. It also helps if we score a truckload of points against the lowest ranked team in our pool.

These folk represented Australia at the 2015 Championships and should be age eligible for the 2016 version:
5. Lukhan LEALAIAULOTO-TUI, Randwick, NSW
12. Sione TUIPOLOTU, Melbourne University, Vic
9. James TUTTLE, GPS, QLD
13. Campbell MAGNAY, GPS, QLD
21. Harry NUCIFORA, Bond University, QLD
18. Tyrel LOMAX, Tuggeranong, ACT
Team Rehab: Henry HUTCHISON, Randwick, NSW
Joey FITTOCK, Sunnybank, Qld (Injury replacement used at the Oceania U20 Tournament)

There is no guarantee that the "Incumbents" will be reselected, but having found favour with the selectors this year, there is a fairly good chance that the majority of these will similarly find favour in 2016.

Additionally these young men found favour with other nations selectors in 2015, and are believed to be eligible for Australia in 2016:
Ah-mu TUIMALEALIIFANO, Harlequins, Vic, Samoa 2015
Vunipola FIFITA, Randwick, NSW, Tonga 2015
Siuta (Timote) TAI, Royals, ACT, Tonga 2015
Sam TABUATAMATA, Gordon, NSW, Fiji 2015

Others in the "Born in 1996 or earlier" cohort, with experience at National U20 Championships include:
Qld U20 "Incumbents" from 2015
5. Izack RODDA
8. Harley FOX
13. Izaia PERESE
18. Shambeckler VUI
19. Angus SCOTT-YOUNG
Tuaina TUALIMA
Alex MAFI (Team Rehab)

Barbarians U20 "Incumbents" from 2015
11. Nili FIELEA
14. Jamie KOTZ
15. Jordon FULIVAI
16. Phil BRADFORD
22. Jordan JACKSON-HOPE

NSW U20 "Incumbents" from 2015
16. Ed CRAIG
17. Francis BROWN

There is no guarantee that these "incumbents" will be re-selected for their state team/Barbarians again, nor that they have the capability to step up to the National level solely because they have attended a previous National Championships, but they represent a good start point for discussions on selections.

Wildcard (checking on eligibility)
Taniela TUPOU, Brothers, QLD


Use this thread to track the selection trial process for the Australian team, including National Championships, Oceania Championships as well as the build up for the World Championships.

Also discuss similar for the NZL and SAF teams and any snippets of information from the 6N U20 tournament.

 

[Highlander35]

RJ Sa'aga and Ta Hosea from VIC & Aus Barbars are both '96 birthdays as well.

 

[qwerty51]

The preparation has to start now. Top 30 eligible players should be put onto S&C programs.

 

[kiap]

to make it to the Semi-Finals and this is achieved by winning the two games against lower seeded teams with a 4 try bonus point, and secure one or more bonus points in a loss to the top seeded team in the pool or simply beat them. It also helps if we score a truckload of points against the lowest ranked team in our pool.

Yep. We did pretty well on the 4 try bonus points this time round. But a big problem was also letting in a lot of points.

Not only against South Africa (leaked a few extra tries there) but also conceded a fair few points against Samoa and Italy.

When you finish the pool with a points diff of -5, it means the defence needs to be improved.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The preparation has to start now. Top 30 eligible players should be put onto S&C programs.

I have heard whispers that the NRC Franchises (or maybe it is only the 4 Sydney based NRC franchises) may be running a U19 competition, for those young men will be U20 eligible in 2016, in parallel to the NRC.

After the NRC U19's finish, the State U20 squads selection and development process should then kick in over the summer as they build towards the National U20 championships.

 

[TOCC]

The preparation has to start now. Top 30 eligible players should be put onto S&C programs.

30 players on RUPA minimum wage will cost $1.5million/season

 

[kiap]

30 players on RUPA minimum wage will cost $1.5million/season

Are the club players in the NRC even on the RUPA rate yet?

Maybe they can do an NRC type thing - semi-pro for U19s.

 

[qwerty51]

30 players on RUPA minimum wage will cost $1.5million/season

Now that Quade is gone..

u20s NRC sounds great.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As the NRC is run after the respective years Under 20 world championships, it's got to be a NRC Under 19's competition to prepare for the following calendar years World Rugby Under 20 Championships.

 

[I like to watch]

I think people are getting a little over excited here.
Good development of School leavers is a separate issue to fielding a strong 20's team.
NRC should have a 20's comp not 19's,or we will continue to fast track kids with Schoolboy resumes and ignore the rest.
I think we are better served focussing on the rest.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

An NRC Under 20 comp would not help to prepare young men for the following years world under 20's. The June timing of the Under 20's probably helps the NH teams more than ours.

The NH players will have had 2 full seasons of post school rugby, mostly in professional club academies, by the time the championships are held, as well as a full 6N U20 tournament. Plenty of time for bolters to prove that current form is everything and their school rugby scrapbooks and Koala club memberships count for naught.

We get 1 season of post school footy before the U20 process starts, and in some cases like Ed Craig, Lukhan L-T, Francis Brown etc they enter the machine immediately after school. We are getting better at talent spotting at club level with a few young men playing Shute Shield or Second Grade Rugby in their first year out of school that were overlooked by ASRU selectors, and there is plenty of movement in and out of Colts 1 teams from week to week as the selectors name their form players for the Colts 1 teams. Past schoolboy performances mean little in Colts and grade footy. Either the player is fit and capable of performing the necessary skills of his position or they are relegated to lower grades.

I can't speak for the other states but the NSW process this year seemed to give players without the required stamps in their schoolboy scrapbook a pretty fair chance of being selected and many of those were chosen, with some former Koala Club Schoolboys and "Incumbents" cut from the programme.

 

[TOCC]

An NRC Under 20 comp would not help to prepare young men for the following years world under 20's. The June timing of the Under 20's probably helps the NH teams more than ours.

Let's not ignore the end result here though, which is the development of talent to flow on to the NRC/Super Rugby and eventually the Wallabies.

I don't think the focus should be on getting the players ready for the JWC, if the right structures are put in place that will occur naturally. When I say the right structures I'm talking about an NRC's U20 comp, yes the timing of the seasons is unfortunate but at the end of the day it's about development of players towards a higher level and the JWC is just a stepping stone and not the end goal.

Let's say hypothetically the NRC does run a U20's comp, I think it's fair to say that a significant number of those players representing would be eligible for a JWC the following year anyway. It's not as though all the players will be turning 20 that year, the best 17, 18 and 19 year olds will be in the teams just like they were at the U20 championships.




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[Hugh Jarse]

I think we are in heated agreement that there should be a "reserve" grade development competition run in conjunction with the NRC, and some of the Sydney NRC Clubs had games like Emerging Rays vs Rams Development team or the like as curtain raisers last year, and there are whispers that there will be more of the same but more formalised this year, at least for the NSW local derbies. Costs will probably prevent that concept happening beyond NSW and the ACT.

If the intent is to develop players for NRC, which in turn is to develop players for Super Rugby and on to Wallaby level, then the NRC should have a Development Competition rather than an age group limited competition. Opening it up to all ages might pick up the likes of the Criff Tupou's of this world who set aside rugby ambitions for family, study, work, travel, medical or other personal reasons etc in their late teens and early twenties. Notwithstanding that, quite a few of the players in the NRC Development Competition will be probably be the very talented 18, 19 year olds that will go on into the various State U20 Squads for the following years U20 National Championships. So two birds something something something killed. At times it helps the prodigiously talented young'uns to have a few seasoned heads around them to keep them on the straight and narrow and aware of the realities of the world outside of that painted by doting parents, sycophantic player managers, and fawning club fanboys.

If the intent is to get serious about winning the Jnr RWC (It is much easier to type than the World Rugby Under 20 Championships!), then the way to go is an Under 19 Competition. The ASRU National Schoolboys championships does no favours for our talented players who leave school as 17 year olds. Currently this is most of the Queensland cohort and I'm guessing about 10-20 per cent of kids from the other states. ASRU criteria for selection into Australian Schoolboys is Under 18 AND at School, or studying towards a Year 12 qualification if home schooled or at TAFE etc.

 

[kiap]

there are whispers that there will be more of the same but more formalised this year, at least for the NSW local derbies. Costs will probably prevent that concept happening beyond NSW and the ACT.

For accuracy, this should be referred to as the Sydney NRC or the "SNoRC" dev comp.

The 'o' can cover any ACT or "other over-the-border" incursions.

 

[TOCC]

Hugh I tend to think the Premier Grade/Shute Shield comps followed by the NRC now provide a seamless path for the older guys like Criff Tupou who missed the development system due other life commitments. .

I think it's important that any new NRC 'reserve grade' is age-limited, it opens up the opportunities for younger guys who have the potential but not the size or experience to match some of the older guys.

Like you say, we are both in agreement in concept just have differing opinions of the execution.




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[Highlander35]

The thing other nations have going for them is Academies.

The Welsh and Irish regions all have academies. So do the English and French teams in both their First and Second divisions. South Africans do it for the Currie Cup sides and I think the Kiwis do it for their ITM Cup sides. Don't know about Italy, but we (Scots) are setting up 4 (along the old Regional lines) to be completed by February of next year, with 1 (Caledonia) already completed and another (Edinburgh) to be opened soon.

Can't speak for any nations outside those, but that's certainly a head start on the Aussie boys.

From a relatively uneducated standpoint, there appear to be 3 general areas that you can talk about the U20s, or most developing Rugby players. There's the fitness base itself, there's the ability to physically compete and/or dominate, and there's the core rugby skills themselves. Obviously the very best have all 3, but not everyone will. The nature of the tournament (5 games in 3 weeks) tends to mean that those that get favoured at the selection table are those that fill the first and last categories, although exceptions are made for some (LLT this year for example).

The Academies help develop the aspects of these games that they're not so adept at and create more well-rounded players early. Obviously most of the time, it will simply be about increasing the physical impact of the player earlier, because that's what most youngsters need, but they'll also turn physical specimens into better ball players, and help increase the fitness base of your natural monsters.

Unfortunately, I can't think of how Australia can fix it. In Europe, SA and NZ, the non-soccer/cricket youngsters will all naturally gravitate to Union from a physical sport POV, and as the biggest sport in that category, can easily retain them against other threats.

In contrast, Rugby has to seriously compete with the NRL and AFL for the same pool of youngsters, where both of them currently (With a semi-professional U20s, and the Draft respectively) have greater incentives and more opportunities for youngsters to come their way.

Unless additional funding makes it's way down, to either the Super Sides or more professional iterations of the NRC, for the purpose of the Strength and Conditioning of the U20s, I can't see how Aus will break out of the cycle of relative mediocrity at this level.

Of course, the sheer volume of talent means its unlikely that this will translate to the fully professional senior game, but it's potentially something that would provide future rewards for the seniors should the "Juniors" be more developed earlier in their careers,

 

[kiap]

The thing other nations have going for them is Academies.

Good post. But what's your definition of an Academy?

Perhaps some info on the Scottish ones you're talking about - number of players and ages, hours per week, who do they play, payments/costs?

The earlier post on this page about S&C programs for 30 players × $50k minimum wage was a load of old guff (hey, no apologies, people - someone's gotta say it).

 

[Highlander35]

OK. Currently the only development the SRU does is provide about 16 blokes annually (Between 18 and 23 year old) Elite Development player contracts, which gives them a "Professional Wage" and allocates them to either Glasgow, Edinburgh or the Sevens program.

At this stage, I'd reckon only the executives, Cotter, Lineen, Solomons, Townsend and their respective coaching staffs would have the full details but basically:

4 academies are being built/renovated in each of the 4 traditional Scottish Regions. Caledonia (North) at the University of Aberdeen. Glasgow (West) at Broadwood Stadium in Cumbernauld. Edinburgh (East) at Napier University. and Borders (South) at an as of yet unconfirmed location (Borders slowing the progress of Scottish Rugby, what a surprise).

In addition to up front costs, they will cost about £1.2 million (Roughly $2.5 million AUD) annually to run. This is subsidised through BT Sports sponsorship agreement with the 4 Academies, and in fact, top to bottom sponsorship of Scottish Rugby.

Eventually, it will incorporate more, but it will start with the development of U16s, U18s, U20s and a "top tier" which will incorporate players who would have previously gone through the EDP program. The longer term intention is to use it for grades down to U14s as well, and use it for womens rugby too.

There are "players" currently in the academies because of the official launch time being the start of the domestic 15/16 season, I'd expect the Caledonian and Glasgow boys to be filled, if not the Edinburgh ones as well.

Here are a collection of articles about their establishment:

http://scottishrugby.org/news/14/10/01/flagship-bt-sport-scottish-rugby-academy-launched-aberdeen
http://scottishrugby.org/news/14/10/07/managers-appointed-bt-sport-scottish-rugby-academies
http://scottishrugby.org/news/14/12/09/beveridge-appointed-edinburgh-bt-sport-academy-manager
http://scottishrugby.org/news/15/06...trategic-partnerships-deliver-capital-academy
http://scottishrugby.org/news/15/04/30/broadwood-house-bt-sport-scottish-rugby-academy

In addition, a number of English Clubs have good academies. Some focus on producing a small number of Elite Players (Sarries in particular have a small academy) others have a significantly broader base to benefit both the obviously elite and those below. The Gloucester academy in particular has been up and running since 2002 and is one I really quite like.

http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/rugby/academy/index.php

Have a poke around there, and while the financial details are absent, I really like everything about it, from a development/community/club aspect.

 

[kiap]

Cheers for that. Excellent.

In addition to up front costs, they will cost about £1.2 million (Roughly $2.5 million AUD) annually to run. This is subsidised through BT Sports sponsorship agreement with the 4 Academies, and in fact, top to bottom sponsorship of Scottish Rugby.

This is the key as well - sponsorship.

Australia needs to be looking to go down this path IMO. Extend our existing state programs - but start with establishing one or two perhaps, as Scotland did.

 

[TOCC]

Well.... If rumours are correct there will be some additional funding for super rugby academies in 2016, funding is expected to increase from $4.5million currently to $6million and part of that will be for funding academies.