2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships - Manchester UK

[Lee Grant]

YYeah NSW do have a few (21) schoolies training in the team at the moment where QLD only have 11 and only 5 being fwd's. This year should be a QLD year.

That is out of the original 64; so one in three.

But nobody knows how many U19s will make the cut for the competition; so it could be a storm in a teacup until then, though many of the props are schoolies.

And not quite to the point, but it's difficult to assess the younger players at training or even in a refereed hitout.

We won't know how the schoolies are performing until the second and third trials against Randwick and Sydney University. In the first trial, the 3-way event, they will probably be all lumped together in the Tahs U19 team and doing it tough.

If they make the cut for the later trials we will get a better idea of how many schoolies will be playing in the Super Rugby comp for the Tahs U20s.
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[Seymour Butz]

If things pan out as expected, and NSW and QLD are the two dominant teams, it is a bit of a shame that they meet in the first round of the Super Rugby Curtain Raiser Cup before their combinations and cohesion is as developed as it will be after a few games. Trial games and training sessions can only go so far.

Presumably, if they are the best 2 teams, they'll meet again in the 'final' on April 2nd. No idea how they will work that out - presumably on number of wins / losses, fors and againsts, etc, like GPS schoolboys Comp where there are limited games and no semi finals and finals.

 

[Breakdown]

QLD (Assumption that the Reds will release their contracted players)

Please don't use such big quotes when they are not needed, it just takes up space. Thank you.

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QLD - Taniela Tupou, Josh Webb, Nick Jeffries, Dylan Riley, Clifton Setu will all go close.

 

[10to12]

Hi HJ. Heard Jum W didn't make the cut. Also heard that Jack C might have pulled out (injury) and Conner O is coming back into squad. All unconfirmed

 

[Happy to Chat]

A few notables to your Qld list Hugh:
Gavin Luka - Rehab
Reece Hewat - Rehab
K Meni - Injured
I Perese - Rehab

 

[Lee Grant]

I’ll have a lash at the NSW & QLD 23 to get the ball rolling (some to be omitted).

Some comments on your list (Post #260)

NSW

Front Row

Sean Dillon is a THP and has played Grade and was doing OK when I last saw him.

THPs Francis Brown and Jordan Lotoaniu are overweight but one may be picked.

Harry Johnson-Holmes, Sama Malolo and Will McRae are all schoolies, as is Cory Walker who still had hamstring issues, last I saw. Although I like the looks of HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), this is where the youth issue will raise its head - or should.

Ed Craig will be the standout hooker; Moore is hard and skilful but not as good a lineout thrower.

2nd row

Tom Pirrodi is a schoolie but if you want a smokie from school last year Lachlan Swinton could be the one. (McCauley is not a smokie)

Andrew Vatuvei was absent when I visited last but will check later in the week. Rat Andrew Davies will be a chance.

Backrow

Jack Hayson will be one of the first picked. and Hugh Summerhayes will be well-regarded.

Swiss army knife schoolie Lachie Anderson who plays 7 and 6 and is a lineout receiver, could be a bench smokie.

Don't know about NdC; I'd have hardman Siaosi Halaifonua as a chance at no 8 or 6.

Halves

Harrison Goddard has disappointed me, especially his passing; but no doubt it was a small sample and he will come good anyway (and he's a goal-kicker). I expect big no.9, country lad Ted Pye to be the no.1 scrumhalf.

Clancy has been excellent at flyhalf. Don't know that I have recognised Jack Maddocks at training but he certainly didn't play in the hit-out. Jerry Lemalu from the Rats by way of Victoria has not impressed me.

Therefore I think that schoolie Jack McGregor, who has always played beyond his years, is a real chance.

Centre/Wing

I'd swap Molloy into the centres and Sam T to the wing though Josh Nohra looks a good winger.

Sepesa LT could be a chance if he passed the ball when he should - and another schoolie, Tim Clements, who finished GPS with a wet sail as fullback, could be a smokie of all smokies.
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[Hugh Jarse]

QLD - Taniela Tupou, Josh Webb, Nick Jeffries, Dylan Riley, Clifton Setu will all go close.

Thought that Taniela misses out on residency/citizenship grounds. Supposedly players need citizenship, Parent or Grandparent citizenship, or 3 years residency.
Taniela has only been here for two years, IIRC.
Qld are spoiled for top notch backs, and it will be hard but not impossible for the likes of Riley and Setu to make the cut. All depends on how many of their contracted players are released by the Reds.

A few notables to your Qld list Hugh:
Gavin Luka - Rehab
Reece Hewat - Rehab
K Meni - Injured
I Perese - Rehab

Are these all likely to keep them out of action in the Super Rugby Curtain Raiser Cup?
The absence of those folk from the Red Peril may make the Gen Blue boys a little more competitive, but they may still have too much firepower for our mob.

Hi HJ. Heard Jum W didn't make the cut. Also heard that Jack C might have pulled out (injury) and Conner O is coming back into squad. All unconfirmed

Jack Clancy will be missed. I think he is a better game manager than O'Shea. Maddocks has a very powerful and educated boot on him, and he has played half a season in First Grade at the Beasts as run on flyhalf. Jack MacGregor would be a good substitute for Clancy, although I'd prefer that he had some more post school footy under his belt.

 

[Happy to Chat]

The first 3 definitely out for the curtain raisers, I have not heard too much about Perese's recovery and I would assume with the ACL injury that he would be out for at least the first half of the year unless he has recovered and rehabbed extremely well.


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[Happy to Chat]

I would not be surprised if they run Magnay @ 12.


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[Hugh Jarse]

Perese and Tuipuloto (Vic) will be looking good to be the Centres for Aust if they are fit.

Quality players are usually given a fair bit of time to prove their fitness if they are in Team Rehab.

 

[Highlander35]

Sione can play 13, but he's a 12 at heart. Given he started 3 or 4 games at the tournament in his 18th year, I don't know if there'd be anybody there to shift him if he was fit.

 

[Lee Grant]

Sione can play 13, but he's a 12 at heart.

Also in the legs !!
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[Seymour Butz]

I like what Adrian Thompson has done with the Oceania U20 Tournament.

This year it will be different; there will be overseas teams in the FORU tournament at Bond but they will be in different divisions.

Only NZ and Aus will be in Div I - and will play each other twice (on May 3rd and 7th, I think). I don't know who will be in the Div II group.

Is there a link to the draw for the Oceania comp? I can't find the draw or any other details online anywhere for 2016...?!

http://www.oceaniarugby.com/default.aspx?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania_Under_20_Rugby_Championship

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^^^^^^^
Not that I know of. All I had was a NSW Under 20s roster which carried onto the Oz Under 20s - maybe it was Tim Rapp's personal spreadsheet because he's an Aus selector.

Anyway it had a section blocked off with the text "Oceania Under 20 3rd and 7th" (in May). And because Aus are playing NZ in two games I assume those are the dates.

But it's an old spreadsheet so it may have changed.
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[Jets]

Thought that Taniela misses out on residency/citizenship grounds. Supposedly players need citizenship, Parent or Grandparent citizenship, or 3 years residency.
Taniela has only been here for two years, IIRC.

I think that is the case for U20 National selection but I wouldn't be surprised if he played for QLD as they want to develop him for Super Rugby and this would be a great platform. The tournament can't just be a Aust 20's selection trial, it has to cater for thing like this too.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Good Point, @Jets. In that case, he must be odds on to anchor the Red's U20 front row after his performances in the NRC and QPR last year.

It would be great to see him perform against his age cohort.

 

[Lee Grant]

There are precedents of a kind for using players for U20s tournaments that could not be eligible for Aus Under 20s in that year.

Earlier in the thread we discussed schoolboy players being chosen in the Australian Barbarians selection tournament in Adelaide in 2015 yet they would not have been chosen for the Baas team.

Schoolboys aren't eligible for Oz U20s and it would have wasted a spot in the Aus Baas team for the Canberra tournament.

Likewise the player of that tournament, from WA, was chosen for that tournament though not eligible for Oz U20s on residency grounds.

But it was a good opportunity for the "state" minders to see what they could do and how they performed in training and attitude in the lead up.

I hope that Tupou is selected for the Reds U20s but the ARU may not allow it because they may view it as a wasted opportunity to showcase somebody else.

I saw TT at Rat Park in the NRC and he did well for a prop of his age.
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[girtbysea]

I’ll have a lash at the NSW & QLD 23 to get the ball rolling (some to be omitted). I don't know the background of the Rebels, Force and Ponies squads well enough to throw up a strawman squad of 23 for them.

NSW
Props
V Fifita
H Johnson-Holmes
J Latoaniu
F Brown (if fit)

Hookers
E Craig
D Moore

Locks
R McCauley
T Piroddi
J Margin
S Dillon

Flankers
J Hayson
S Halaifonua
J Woodhill

No8
J Lough (c)
N De Crespeny

halfback
T Strang/T Pye
H Goddard

Five Eighth
J Maddocks
J Clancy

Centres
S Tabuatamata
D England
N Yeomans

Wings
T Molloy
L Latinipulu

Fullback
G Porter

Hutchison & Kennewell on 7’s duties.


QLD (Assumption that the Reds will release their contracted players)
Props
S Vui
R Aisata
G Luka
H Hoopert

Hooker
A Mafi

Locks
L Lealaiaulotu-Tui
I Rodda
A Scott-Young

Flankers
M Jones
T Tualima
K Meni
C Moroney

No 8
R Hewatt
J Fa’anana-Schultz

Halfback
J Tuttle (c)
M Sorevi

Five Eighth
M Mason
A Horan

Centres
I Perese
C Magnay

Wing
J Fittock
S Edwards

Fullback
F Dorrough
J Ngamanu

After a couple of lean years, QLD look to have the Big Game players to win this year, assuming that Reds release their contracted players, and all remain injury free.

If things pan out as expected, and NSW and QLD are the two dominant teams, it is a bit of a shame that they meet in the first round of the Super Rugby Curtain Raiser Cup before their combinations and cohesion is as developed as it will be after a few games. Trial games and training sessions can only go so far.

Reading with interest and looking forward to the new competition format. The franchise model can only improve our national depth.

From a Qld perspective and with reference to the above list and based on what I saw in clubland (missed most of the schools) last year. Josh Webb should also come into the reckoning at hooker. Taniella Tupou is apparently available for the Q20's. Which ever way that will be a very strong front 3 !!

Harry Nucifora (last years Oz 20's) should be included at 9. It will be interesting how many Reds contracted players are released to the Q20's. (?Tuttle, Magnay ) I reckon they (RG) may play it very conservatively and keep his resources close at hand. Cam Magnay I think did not play any Q20's last year but spent most of the season on the training paddock with the Reds. If available he should get the 13 jersey. Izaia Perese has yet to run from what I hear and common sense should dictate take it slow, don't rush and don't break him.

Nathan Russell (Uni Prem Grade #12) is in his 3rd year in the squad and has a full year of senior rugby under his belt. Very smart organiser and a cool head in the middle of the park. Fred Durrough creates options at both 12 and 13 and I would be surprised to see him wear the 15 jersey as a first option.

The back three I think will be Liam Jurd at the back and Joey Fittock and George Partridge on the flanks. That is a lot of speed out wide. Fittock (? last years Oz 20's) has great ball skills, speed and very strong in contact. Watched Partridge score a heap of tries ( ? 20+) last year for Brothers in a team that did not make the finals. Seriously fast ( ? quickest across all squads), reminds me a little of watching Brendan Moon move back in the days at Crosby Park.


Bring on the season !!...and Go the Reds (and Brothers!)

 

[Happy to Chat]

Girtbysea, do you know the approx height & weight of these backline players? I know Magnay is 98 kg at 1.95m which is pretty big and Perese 91 kg at 1.8m and some say he'd be to small for a super centre.

 

[girtbysea]

HTC - Not sure of specific physical stats and I have not seen most of these players since end of season games. I am sure 6 months in the gym has changed them a bit. Magnay would still be the biggest in the backs. There are no 'monsters' in the midfield (although they will use Tupou there a bit one would think). The backline should up there on skill and speed rather than size.

Also looking at the list of locks, it would not surprise to have all 3 on the park and one of these at No. 8.