Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Why are the country sides separate from the city sides?
2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy
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T
TOCC
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For the NSW/QLD Country players it provides an opportunity for those outside of Sydney/Brisbane to earn and prove their selection against other teams. Often country players can be neglected or overlooked because of the "out of sight out of mind" philosophy and due to not been able to train with the Reds/Waratahs U20 squads... This gives them the chance to play against other states and earn selection in the 'combined states' team.
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
I suppose when you factor in the contribution from QLD and NSW country sides it makes more sense. I still think it is a bit wank.
Maybe your Average Joe wouldn't know or care, but calling them the Southern States team helps to align it with the Southern States Championship (for your Average Joe).
Maybe your Average Joe wouldn't know or care, but calling them the Southern States team helps to align it with the Southern States Championship (for your Average Joe).
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
WA U20 team announced. See link below.
http://westernforce.com.au/article/wa-under-20-squad-southern-states-championships
http://westernforce.com.au/article/wa-under-20-squad-southern-states-championships
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
"Tasmania Laalaaai" Best name ever!
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
It's definitely got to be up there.
Can I buy a vowel?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Agree - Qld Country would not be all that southern.
It's interesting that both Tonga and Fiji are invited to the nationals. That would make five teams in total, yet there are only three match days. Last year there were four teams and everybody played everybody else.
So, because not all teams will play each other, there won't be a clear winner like last year and it will depend on who plays whom - but in the end it is not the point of the nationals, which is to serve as a selection tool.
In the Aus Baas tournament in Adelaide the teams will not play all the other teams either, but this was the same as last year.
Note that the Aus Barbarians team arrive in Canberra three days before the other teams. This is to have their training for the tournament.
They were at a huge disadvantage last year, since the Qld and NSW city teams had trained so much together, yet they darned near won the tournament.
Let's hope that they come up with some smokies as they did last year.
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T
TOCC
Guest
Lee do you know which teams will feature in the International U20 Championship on the Gold Coast in April/May?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
^^^^^^
Don't know anything about it mate.
I know that the Aus Under 20s had warm-up games at the Bond Uni training camp last year and as a result of that some players were omitted from the expanded squad selected at the end of the national championships, and one was added.
Didn't know it was a "Championship" though.
Do you have a link to where you got what info you have?
Then I can refer to it and ask Adrian Thompson what's the go.
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Don't know anything about it mate.
I know that the Aus Under 20s had warm-up games at the Bond Uni training camp last year and as a result of that some players were omitted from the expanded squad selected at the end of the national championships, and one was added.
Didn't know it was a "Championship" though.
Do you have a link to where you got what info you have?
Then I can refer to it and ask Adrian Thompson what's the go.
.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah - I see it now.
Southern States U20 Championship - 20-25 February 2015 – Adelaide
World Rugby Junior (U20) World Championships - 2-20 June 2015 – Parma, Italy
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Ah - I see it now.
Southern States U20 Championship - 20-25 February 2015 – Adelaide
*Competing teams: Western Australia, South Australia, Victoria, ACT, NSW Country, Qld Country
National U20 Championship - 20-25 March 2015 – Canberra*Competing teams: NSW, Queensland, Australian Barbarians (selected from the Southern States Championships, Tonga (invited team) & Fiji (invited team)
International U20 Championship - 28 April-9 May 2015 – Gold CoastWorld Rugby Junior (U20) World Championships - 2-20 June 2015 – Parma, Italy
.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
I forgot about that Jaghound.
Cam Blades told that to me and I mentioned it in this thread. Japan was the other nation he mentioned.
I will definitely ask about it now - thanks for jogging my memory.
It's probable that they will pick an expanded squad after Canberra, like last year, and whittle it down after those games.
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Newbie
Bill McLean (32)
It was interesting to read the dialogue of @TOCC, @Lee Grant, and @Qwerty51 concerning the Eastern Australian Islanders sudden willingness to finally allow there U/20's to trial against the Australian U/20's.
I too agree with Qwerty's assessment of the situation that the New Zealanders have no choice) as their expectations (and that of most others TBH) that they will go into every JWC and take home the title is quickly becoming a fading memory.
I personally would attribute the lack of success of southern hemisphere nations at recent JWC's to the innovation and success of the northern hemisphere rugby programs and their consequential organisation.
As it stands the 'Six Nations U/20' tournament will be underway in approximately two weeks. It will run concurrently with the actual 'Six Nations' tournament (albeit at different venues) and what it will deliver for the participating nations is five tough games of rugby from which to hone and prepare a team for the upcoming JWC. And It happens every year!
In fact if you were to go to the 'Six Nations' official website and look toward the top right hand side you will not only see an U/20 tab, you will also see and U/18 tab which will also document a recent championship that has just been held (http://www.rbs6nations.com). I find this to be forward thinking and perhaps we should take a leaf out their book insofar as southern hemisphere development is concerned.
For those who followed the English U/18 tour of Australia in 2011 and the 2013 Australian Schoolboys tour of the UK, and watched the games against England it was patently clear that there was a huge difference in terms of development. This too was the subject of much discourse in the G&G schoolboy pages, and as quite rightly pointed out by @Lee Grant during that time, those English lads had probably been in professional/semi-professional rugby programs with AVIVA league clubs for at least 12 months prior (if not longer).
Admittedly there would be a cost issue associated with organising an annual U/20 tri-nations tournament (or four nations if you include the Argies) as already noted earlier is this thread. Nevertheless, and as a minimum, there should at least be an annual match between us and the Kiwis just like the old days!
For those that can also recall, it my recollection of the 1990’s that the respective Australian and NZ colts teams (U/21’s) would annually alternate between tours of each other’s nation. Such games were usually played before Bledisloe Cup games, but the visiting team would also play a warm up game against a provincial team of that nation.
For example in 1993 (or 1994) I went down to Belmore Oval (yes – the home of the Bulldogs) and watched the NZ colts play the NSW Colts. I will never forget the game because I watched a young Jonah Lomu (recently dropped from the All Blacks that season) give his opposite NSW winger of Fijian extraction an absolute and totally brutal thumping! Still haunts me!
It is my understanding that such tours ceased when the IRB (now World Rugby) established the Colts (U/21) and U/19 World Championships at the turn of the century. Needless to say I for one am happy notwithstanding the informal (if in fact it is) nature of this year’s game between the U/20 Australian and NZ lads!
PS: I wrote this before I actually saw and read @kiap post (#23). Sorry about that.
I too agree with Qwerty's assessment of the situation that the New Zealanders have no choice) as their expectations (and that of most others TBH) that they will go into every JWC and take home the title is quickly becoming a fading memory.
I personally would attribute the lack of success of southern hemisphere nations at recent JWC's to the innovation and success of the northern hemisphere rugby programs and their consequential organisation.
As it stands the 'Six Nations U/20' tournament will be underway in approximately two weeks. It will run concurrently with the actual 'Six Nations' tournament (albeit at different venues) and what it will deliver for the participating nations is five tough games of rugby from which to hone and prepare a team for the upcoming JWC. And It happens every year!
In fact if you were to go to the 'Six Nations' official website and look toward the top right hand side you will not only see an U/20 tab, you will also see and U/18 tab which will also document a recent championship that has just been held (http://www.rbs6nations.com). I find this to be forward thinking and perhaps we should take a leaf out their book insofar as southern hemisphere development is concerned.
For those who followed the English U/18 tour of Australia in 2011 and the 2013 Australian Schoolboys tour of the UK, and watched the games against England it was patently clear that there was a huge difference in terms of development. This too was the subject of much discourse in the G&G schoolboy pages, and as quite rightly pointed out by @Lee Grant during that time, those English lads had probably been in professional/semi-professional rugby programs with AVIVA league clubs for at least 12 months prior (if not longer).
Admittedly there would be a cost issue associated with organising an annual U/20 tri-nations tournament (or four nations if you include the Argies) as already noted earlier is this thread. Nevertheless, and as a minimum, there should at least be an annual match between us and the Kiwis just like the old days!
For those that can also recall, it my recollection of the 1990’s that the respective Australian and NZ colts teams (U/21’s) would annually alternate between tours of each other’s nation. Such games were usually played before Bledisloe Cup games, but the visiting team would also play a warm up game against a provincial team of that nation.
For example in 1993 (or 1994) I went down to Belmore Oval (yes – the home of the Bulldogs) and watched the NZ colts play the NSW Colts. I will never forget the game because I watched a young Jonah Lomu (recently dropped from the All Blacks that season) give his opposite NSW winger of Fijian extraction an absolute and totally brutal thumping! Still haunts me!
It is my understanding that such tours ceased when the IRB (now World Rugby) established the Colts (U/21) and U/19 World Championships at the turn of the century. Needless to say I for one am happy notwithstanding the informal (if in fact it is) nature of this year’s game between the U/20 Australian and NZ lads!
PS: I wrote this before I actually saw and read @kiap post (#23). Sorry about that.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Thanks for that redhead - "Like" doesn't quite do it.
So, if a game is played on the first and last day there is plenty of time in between to slip another two matches in; so that every side plays everybody else.
It won't be a burden at that age and besides, players will be rotated so that most of them would get two starts and most get a day off.
The results won't be as important as putting the training content into practice—and this will apply to all nations.
It will serve as a culling tool also for the Aussies. I imagine that about 35 players will be chosen after the national championships for the camp at Bond Uni and that 28 will be selected after the Oceania tournament, for the JWC in Italy.
The ability to play effectively running on with new team mates game to game, will be part of the selection criteria and it is well that players are rotated so they can be assessed in this attribute.
After all, that is what is going to happen in the JWC tournament.
This is a great idea and it comes at some cost, but I suppose that the lion's share of it will be borne by the IRB (or World Rugby).
It was well handled: Fiji and Tonga, who are not involved in the JWC, were invited to the Aussie U20 National Championships—and Samoa, Japan and NZ, who are involved in the JWC, are participating in the Oceania tournament.
Sometimes things make sense.
Well done to the folks who organised this wherever you are.
.
So, if a game is played on the first and last day there is plenty of time in between to slip another two matches in; so that every side plays everybody else.
It won't be a burden at that age and besides, players will be rotated so that most of them would get two starts and most get a day off.
The results won't be as important as putting the training content into practice—and this will apply to all nations.
It will serve as a culling tool also for the Aussies. I imagine that about 35 players will be chosen after the national championships for the camp at Bond Uni and that 28 will be selected after the Oceania tournament, for the JWC in Italy.
The ability to play effectively running on with new team mates game to game, will be part of the selection criteria and it is well that players are rotated so they can be assessed in this attribute.
After all, that is what is going to happen in the JWC tournament.
This is a great idea and it comes at some cost, but I suppose that the lion's share of it will be borne by the IRB (or World Rugby).
It was well handled: Fiji and Tonga, who are not involved in the JWC, were invited to the Aussie U20 National Championships—and Samoa, Japan and NZ, who are involved in the JWC, are participating in the Oceania tournament.
Sometimes things make sense.
Well done to the folks who organised this wherever you are.
.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Nice work. Hopefully this becomes a regular fixture - and it looks like there's an Oceania Div 2 tournament for the U20s as well.
Interestingly, the Pacific Rugby Cup is in Fiji this time, with Canada replacing the Aus provincial A teams.
T
TOCC
Guest
The Pacific Rugby Cup was always supposed to be on a rotational basis, but my understanding was that it was between Australia and New Zealand super rugby teams.. Canada must have requested for involvement.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
It was so far back I'd forgotten it (and looks like it was merely a C&P).
Good recollections of the way the old colts operated, and I agree we've fallen behind. Hopefully we see a boost for the SH (i.e. Aus) U20s with this new comp.
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