2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy

[RugbyReg]

This has been the biggest turnaround I've ever seen. Scotland must've been deflated by only being up by 2 at HT.

after all your negative comments to the Australians in the first half it was good to see you too turned around in the 2nd half and pointed out the things you did well.

Oh...


hang on....


Sorry, as you were.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Results and Pool Pacings after Day 4 (click on "Show spoiler" button to see results. Spoiler label will be removed after 24 hours. If you haven't watched your recording of the matches by then - tough).

MATCH DAY 1: TUESDAY JUNE 2
Game No., Kick-off, Group, Match, Venue
1. Pool C, Ireland 18 def Argentina 16
2. Pool B, Australia 34 def Samoa 22
3. Pool C, New Zealand 68 def Scotland 10
4. Pool A, France 19 def Wales 10
5. Pool A, England 59 def Japan 7
6. Pool B, South Africa 33 def Italy 5

MATCH DAY 2: SATURDAY JUNE 6
Game No., Kick-off, Group, Match, Venue
7., 16:30, Pool A, France 47 def Japan 7
8., 18:30, Pool B, South Africa 40 def Samoa 8
9., 20:30, Pool B, Australia 31def Italy 15
10., 16:30, Pool C, Ireland 24 def Scotland 20
11., 18:30, Pool C, New Zealand 32 def Argentina 29
12., 20:30, Pool A, England 30 def Wales 16

MATCH DAY 3: WEDNESDAY JUNE 10
Game No., Kick-off, Group, Match, Venue
13., 16:30, Pool C, Argentina 6 def by Scotland 29
14., 18:30, Pool B, Samoa 30 def Italy 24
15., 20:30, Pool B, South Africa 46 def Australia 13
16., 16:30, Pool A, England 18 def by France 30
17., 18:30, Pool A, Wales 66 def Japan 3
18., 20:30, Pool C, New Zealand 25 Ireland 3

Pool A
France 13 pts
England 10 pts
Wales 5 pts
Japan 0 pts

Pool B
South Africa 15 pts
Australia 10 pts
Samoa 4 pts
Italy 2 pts

Pool C
New Zealand 14 pts
Ireland 8 pts
Argentina 5 pts
Scotland 2 pts

SF contenders:
FRA, SAF, NZL, ENG


MATCH DAY 4: MONDAY JUNE 15
Game No, Kick-off, Match, Venue
For Rankings 9 – 12
19., 16:30, Argentina 46 def Italy 5
20., 18:30, Samoa 12 def by Japan 29
For Rankings 5 - 8
21., 20:30, Ireland 12 def by Wales 22
22., 16:30, Australia 31 def Scotland 21
Semi Finals
23., 18:30, New Zealand 45 def France 7
24., 20:30, South Africa 20 def by England 28

Games To Come
MATCH DAY 5: SATURDAY JUNE 20 ***
Game No., Kick-off, Match, Venue
25., 16.30, 11th/12th playoff - Italy v Samoa, Cremona
26., 11.00, 9th/10th playoff - Argentina v Japan, Viadana
27., 13.00, 7th/8th playoff - Ireland v Scotland, Viadana
28., 15.00, 5th/6th playoff - Australia v Wales, Viadana Sunday 21 June at 12.30am AEST
29., 18.30, 3rd/4th playoff - France v South Africa, Cremona
30., 20.30, Under 20 Championship Match - New Zealand v England, Cremona

*** As Host Nation Italy will play the opening match in Cremona on Day 5, no matter what position they are playing for.

All times are local time in Italy.

 

[TOCC]

As per @Hugh Jarse's post he has named some very very competent players. Would they have made a difference? Hypothetical only now. I honestly don't think I am anti qld. I am sitting in brisvegas as I type. What I am against is the politicing to get player A on the tournament instead of player B. I think you will find I was one of the most vocal a couple of years back in the schoolboys, when, due to the politics in NSW, you had a halfback that could not pass left to right. But enough of that. As far as spruiking the kids are S15. You came 13th.

Brian if you're going to be heavily critical of players in the future then how about you present some viable alternatives, that's the second time you've been asked to name NSW players who should have started ahead of QLDers and have failed to do so... Yeah, it undermines your argument if you can't name the better players that you have referred to..

I think you need to get over the S15 contracted subject, the performance of the senior team has no bearing on the development of U20's, so constantly referring to the Reds position on the ladder as weight to your argument that QLD U20 players aren't up to standard is a ridiculous comment...




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[Braveheart81]

I don't think any of the Reds players have been selected in the run on side because they have played S15. Korczyk, Gunn, Fakaosilea and Wilkin (7s not S15) were all considered likely players before they received any higher honours this year.

I would say it is definitely considered that those same players might not have played S15 for a different team or under different circumstances. Magnay for example hasn't been a walk up starter in the U20s despite his S15 experience.

It seems like the preparation and selection for the under 20s has been better than ever in the last two years and creates a far more level playing field.

People who are close to the situation need to remember that they are much more familiar with their side and then might only see players from other states play at the national championship. Selections aren't based purely on a couple of games which could cause a person who has just been the national championships thinking there is bias at play but the reality is that they are judging on more than just a couple of games.

 

[qwerty51]

after all your negative comments to the Australians in the first half it was good to see you too turned around in the 2nd half and pointed out the things you did well.

Question, did you watch the 1st half before you saw the final score?

 

[RugbyReg]

I haven't watched either. I followed this thread. Relevance?

 

[qwerty51]

You'd have the same opinion if you watched the 1st half live.

 

[RugbyReg]

That wasn't the point I was making. You were more than happy to keep on your message of how shit this team is when they were playing poorly. But once they start playing well, it doesn't suit your argument so you run and hide.

Man up.

 

[Highlander35]

Qwerty is harsh, but hardly wrong, it came down to 4 players.

Placid's individual try in the first half, Kellaway's ankle tap kept you in the game in the first half, otherwise you would have been down by at least 14, rather than 2.

Orr put in a great performance off the bench both physically around the ground and at scrum time, he was my MOTM. Lealaialoto-tui had a great physical performance in the first 15 or so minutes of the second half. Take away any of them, and I don't think you guys win.

On top of that, Kinghorn had an absolute shocker for us and additionally was one of many selfish players who stopped us scoring in the first half.

From all that you, you blokes did deserve to end up winners, and the rest of what I'm saying can be taken with however much salt you deem appropriate.

From about the 55 minute mark to the 70ish minute mark, the ref seemed to heavily favour you with odd decisions. 2 high tackle penalties, where first contact was below the shoulders, including one who sent Hutchinson to the sin bin, who was out best back on both A&D till Horne came on. Didn't watch the far side at scrum time, and Orr took full advantage of that fact. Missed plenty of Canary hands in the ruck, especially when a turnover was on.

As I've said, didn't affect the result in the end, but it meant our little comeback in the last 10 or do emded up being pointless.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Brian if you're going heavily critical of players in the future then how about you present some viable alternatives, that's the second time you've been asked to name NSW players who should have started ahead of QLDers and have failed to do so. Yeah, it undermines your argument if you can't name the better players that you have referred to..

I think you need to get over the S15 contracted subject, the performance of the senior team has no bearing on the development of U20's, so constantly referring to the Reds position on the ladder as weight to your argument that QLD U20 players aren't up to standard is a ridiculous comment.




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Why should I get over the S15 subject? Every person seems so proudly to state that so and so is on a qld S15 contract.
What would I have changed?
I would have moved Sandell to loose. That is the position he should play. He is underweight from the SU program but they know more than I. Ed Craig/Nick Koutsoukis/Alex Mafi as hooker. At least the ball would land in the same suburb when there is a lineout. Bit of a prerequisite for the position,wouldnt you say? Bring in Vuni Fifita at tight.
We can work around the nuances of 2 row, but as far as the loose area goes. M Gunn is the best 7 for his age as I have reiterated again and again and again. I honestly don't know about the other two positions.
To look to a benchmark 8 such as K Read, do any players in Australia seem to match? There is no one coming through either. Hanigan is destined for 6. Even blind Freddy can see that.
The major area is the 9.Short should have been there. Full stop. To take the lads they have has made the 10/12/13 positions less than ideal. Every poster here said about C Magnay and A Kellaway not getting the ball. Starts at 9. I could use a quote but opt not to.
The only players I have mentioned are McInerney and Nucifora.
To finish off, do you think the pressure appiled above from qld rugby wants the S15 players there?

 

[kiap]

Qwerty is harsh, but hardly wrong, it came down to 4 players.

Mate, I watched the game live.

Qwerty was having a moan. And by the end, so were you.

Anyone is entitled to express a few gripes when watching a match live. That's natural as a supporter, and people are granted their grain of salt during a match. There's a leeway as we go through the lows to get the highs.

Yeah, the yellow card was harsh. As an oppo supporter, I acknowledge Hutchinson wasn't the worst. But I also watched the Saffa and Kiwi matches. Any sniff of a high tackle was pounced on due to World Rugby's clamp down directive to the referees.

In the cold light of the next day, the time for crying is over.

And as someone who is forced to watch the Western Force, I can tell you that "comebacks in the last ten minutes" when games are already gone are a mirage.

 

[Highlander35]

fair call. The ref still wasn't fab, and those 4 had the most impact on your win, but I've been unnecessarily harsh on the Joeys and the ref. Let my frustration at inability to covert strong performance into points get the better of me. Still disappointed, but a good few hours and a proper replay have mellowed me out.

Aussie Cap on now. Placid was very good, both individual runs and passing. Orr is still my BOG, Tahs should sign him. Gunn was the best forward in the first half. McInerny had a good impact off the bench. Tuipulotu had a better game at 13. LLT had the physical game I think we were hoping from him from the beginning. Kellaway had limited opportunities, but still did well. Winter had a decent game in his 2nd start. Magnays strength and power is awesome, he'll be back next season, and even better.

Hope we beat Wales and claim 5th again, not ideal, but still a good enough seeding that you'd be capable of cracking the top 4 season.

 

[AussieDominance]

Next year we should just select the Randwick colts side Brian.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Single Malts were wearing a sponsors logo on the front of their jumper.

I thought team playing strip had to be "clean" at the JRWC, like at the RWC, but I also note the Soap Dodgers have a BMW logo on their jumpers, and Saffers have ABSA on theirs.

Could we not land a sponsor for the Men in Gold?

 

[Joe King]

If we really are losing some key junior players to the NRL, then I wonder if it would be a good idea to use some of the money from the next broadcast deal on simply keeping the best juniors in the game. Does anyone know how much they spend on doing this already, or what strategies are already in place to do this?

 

[kiap]

What was the upshot of this - the NRL's possible canning of their Holden Cup?

The under-20s competition is set to be scrapped at the end of next season​

David Riccio - The Daily Telegraph: June 07, 2015​

THE under-20s National Youth League Holden Cup competition could be scrapped at the end of next season with it’s future to be discussed at a meeting of club chief executives next week.​

Spoiler

The financial stress and weekly logistic strain on clubs, coupled with what value it is worth to Holden Cup broadcaster Fox Sports ahead of a new TV broadcast deal in 2017 has created serious discussion among NRL powerbrokers that the 20s competition is on borrowed time. All 16 NRL chief executives will meet on Thursday at Sydney Olympic Park where the agenda will be led by NRL chief executive Dave Smith.

The Sunday Telegraph has been told the future of the under-20s competition will feature as a point of discussion with a 28 per cent decline in TV viewers between 2014 and 2015. Introduced in 2008, the Holden Cup competition was originally named the Toyota Cup. It was heralded as an opportunity for young footballers to gain exposure on a far greater level and a vital tool in talent adjusting to the demands of professional football.

The competition consists of teams from all 16 clubs that participate in the NRL competition, fielding squads made up of players between the ages of 17 and 19. The draw and structure mirrors the NRL competition which leaves every club, the majority of which fight tooth and nail for funding, working under a salary cap of $250,000 for a squad of 25 players.

Extra costs associated with the salaries for coaching staff, strength and conditioning coaches, medical staff and travel and accommodation are the issues which will be aired by the majority of clubs. There is also a much more serious issue of; the pressure and expectation on the game’s next generation of footballers played a role in the tragic suicide of several Holden Cup players?

One proposal is that the under-20s competition return under the banner of a statewide competition, which would be run by the NSWRL and QRL.​

“The clubs aren’t massive fans of it,’’ one well-placed club official said. “It’s a big expense and I don’t know how much value Fox is getting out of it. I think there would be broad support to push the 20s back into a state league competition, from what I can understand.​

“How they get to it and how they unwind (the Holden Cup) and when they have to make a call by — I’m not sure. You’ve got coaching staff and players involved so that’s why you've got to make a call at some point, which should be well in advance of 12-months out from the new TV deal.’’​

Any decision made by the 16 CEO’s on Thursday will then be forwarded to the ARL Commission, who will make the final call on if the under-20s competition continues into the future.​

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...d-of-next-season/story-fni3fbgz-1227386146529​

 

[TOCC]

Why should I get over the S15 subject? Every person seems so proudly to state that so and so is on a qld S15 contract.

To finish off, do you think the pressure appiled above from qld rugby wants the S15 players there?

Are you going to tell me that LoLo, Gunn, Magnay, Korczyk, Tuttle and Paia'aua shouldn't have been in the squad? Because those are the QLD S15 contracted players, which one of those players shouldn't have been in the squad?




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[TOCC]

I would have moved Sandell to loose. That is the position he should play. He is underweight from the SU program but they know more than I. Ed Craig/Nick Koutsoukis/Alex Mafi as hooker. At least the ball would land in the same suburb when there is a lineout. Bit of a prerequisite for the position,wouldnt you say? Bring in Vuni Fifita at tight.
We can work around the nuances of 2 row, but as far as the loose area goes. M Gunn is the best 7 for his age as I have reiterated again and again and again. I honestly don't know about the other two positions.
To look to a benchmark 8 such as K Read, do any players in Australia seem to match? There is no one coming through either. Hanigan is destined for 6. Even blind Freddy can see that.
The major area is the 9.Short should have been there. Full stop. To take the lads they have has made the 10/12/13 positions less than ideal. Every poster here said about C Magnay and A Kellaway not getting the ball. Starts at 9. I could use a quote but opt not to.

So after all this ranting about QLD players the only one you can identify who you would change is at halfback, the rest of those changes aren't from QLD, conversely one player you have identified who should be brought in is actually a QLDer, so perhaps you should temper your quota comments then?




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[Hugh Jarse]

If we really are losing some key junior players to the NRL, then I wonder if it would be a good idea to use some of the money from the next broadcast deal on simply keeping the best juniors in the game. Does anyone know how much they spend on doing this already, or what strategies are already in place to do this?

Problem is that the "key juniors" do not always transition into the best Wallabies.

About 50% of the Wallabies were not Australian Schoolboys and the conversion rate from Australian Schoolboy to Professional Rugby isn't all that high either.

Some of our "key juniors" chose a career outside rugby or NRL. The pay can be significantly better, one can stay in ones chosen profession/vocation until retirement from the workforce, and no one is trying to bash the living daylights out of you for 40 hours each year.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

2 high tackle penalties, where first contact was below the shoulders, including one who sent Hutchinson to the sin bin,

I didn't watch the game but as a point of interest in Union unlike League first contact is irrelevant when ruling on dangerous tackles:
LAW 10.4.(e)
"... A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders."