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Bobby Sands
Guest
Korcyck can even play 7, he is a real dogsbody. I would have him in my backrow no-matter the configuration.
2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Thompson will be looking for bulk against the South Africans and the other games are just the entrees.
I think he will want Lolo F in the back row for them, likely at 8, and I wouldn't be surprised if, despite his smaller scrapbook, Kamp is the no.7. The odds are against it because he has always been a no.8 when I have seen him, but he did well in the position at Bond and plays a heavier game than Gunn and Wilkin - or Korcsyk, for that matter.
I still think that Lukhan is more likely to make his mark in U20s next year but Thompson will be looking for any excuse to use him.
The first time I saw him play was in a NSW Schools trial at Curugal last year. He played no.8 - now there's a thought.
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Clearly you will need the big troopers in back row for SA. Hanigan with Tui as 4/5 and then combination of Korczyk, Gunn (Wilkin) and Lolo. I have not seen Lolo playing more than 15-20 minutes per game for some time. Not infrequently when he got tired he became a bit reckless with his shoulder tackles, I hope he has worked on this. I think Kamp will be needed as he may cover 6,7 and 8 at pinch
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Just run the final squad through the Jarse-o-meter and come up with some numbers:
28 Aust U20 squad members
15 have represented Australian Schoolboys (1 in 2014, 6 in 2013, 3 in 2013 & 2012, 7 in 2012 [1 NSW, 6 QLD])
13 have not represented Australian Schoolboys. Of these 13 players:
At least 54 Former Australian Schoolboys or Schoolboys A were in the eligibility window for U20 selection this year. 48 boys represented Australian Schoolboys or Schoolboys A in 2013 + 6 from QLD in were Schoolboys representatives in 2012.
But of these 54 eligible lads, 6 are playing Loig, 1 is in NZ with Chiefs Development squad and 1 is in Tonga, leaving 46 young men that have represented Aust Schoolboys or Schoolboys A that are still playing rugby.
Of these 46, only 18 were selected for Australian U20's.
Note: This is not meant as a slight on the ASRU selectors, or the State Schools RU selectors, just an observation that Age Group Representative selection is not a guarantee of future selection. Plenty of players develop their skills and fitness to a high level after they leave school while others, for a whole variety of reasons, drop off the radar screen.
The selectors make the best decisions that they can, at that time, on the basis of the skills, attributes, and potential that they see in front of them. That changes over time.
The message is that the Rockstars can not rest on their laurels and rely on the size of their scrapbook. They must continue to apply themselves, with the right attitude, in the gym, at training and during games, or they will get bypassed by others who do precisely that.
28 Aust U20 squad members
15 have represented Australian Schoolboys (1 in 2014, 6 in 2013, 3 in 2013 & 2012, 7 in 2012 [1 NSW, 6 QLD])
13 have not represented Australian Schoolboys. Of these 13 players:
3 have represented Australia A Schoolboys, all in 2013
1 represented ACT Schoolboys 2013
2 have represented Combined States, 1 in 2014, 1 in 2012
1 represented Queensland I in 2014
1 represented Queensland II in 2013
1 represented Queensland White U16 in 2010 (thence to Loig)
4 did not attend National Schoolboys Championships and are "unknown" to Australian Schoolboys RU
At least 54 Former Australian Schoolboys or Schoolboys A were in the eligibility window for U20 selection this year. 48 boys represented Australian Schoolboys or Schoolboys A in 2013 + 6 from QLD in were Schoolboys representatives in 2012.
But of these 54 eligible lads, 6 are playing Loig, 1 is in NZ with Chiefs Development squad and 1 is in Tonga, leaving 46 young men that have represented Aust Schoolboys or Schoolboys A that are still playing rugby.
Of these 46, only 18 were selected for Australian U20's.
Note: This is not meant as a slight on the ASRU selectors, or the State Schools RU selectors, just an observation that Age Group Representative selection is not a guarantee of future selection. Plenty of players develop their skills and fitness to a high level after they leave school while others, for a whole variety of reasons, drop off the radar screen.
The selectors make the best decisions that they can, at that time, on the basis of the skills, attributes, and potential that they see in front of them. That changes over time.
The message is that the Rockstars can not rest on their laurels and rely on the size of their scrapbook. They must continue to apply themselves, with the right attitude, in the gym, at training and during games, or they will get bypassed by others who do precisely that.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
From the little I know of them, Kellaway played 11 last year and Davies was on the right wing against the NZers on the weekend. Therefore, I'd swap the wingers.
I think the game on the weekend illustrated one thing. The Aus backs are very small compared with their NZ counterpartd and likely to come up against even bigger players from SA and the NH teams. Could be the achilles heel.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Just run the listed 2015 NZ U20 team, through the 2014 NZ Schools, 2014 NZ Schools Barbarians, and 2013 NZ Schools team lists in G&GR Archives, to compare oranges with oranges.
36 Players were named for 2015 NZ U20's (including those in Team Rahab and on Super Rugby Duties)
9 of those 36 played for NZ Schools 2013
0 played for NZ School 2014, or NZ Barbarians 2014
27 did not play for NZ Schools RU in 2013 or 2014
This suggests that the success on the Schools on ramp of the pathway to Black in NZ is not as important as the Schools on ramp on the pathway to Gold is in Australia.
This also kind of puts the recent victories over NZ Schools into perspective, and with a greater % of Aust Schoolboys, and Aust A players going on into Aust U20's, it could explain why we have struggled against the Junior Darkness recently despite Schoolboys success when that cohort was at U18 level.
Heaven help ASRU when/if NZ Schools RU gets their act together.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Maybe before, but the Final game I saw Aus U20s v NZ at Bond U on Saturday, he looked a bit of a myth frankly. Did nothing to really unsettle the defence and the Kiwis had him buttoned up quick smart.
Generally, I thought these teams looked just worlds apart; perhaps just as expected.
One looked really well coached, they could play ensemble rugby, looked fitter, stronger and played way smarter than we did.
To me, our boys appeared as though assembled a day or two before, there was very little real coherence in their all-of-team play, their points relied excessively upon individuals' talent. Their defence structure and tackle accuracy was, at best, 5/10.
Reminded me so vividly of when my son was selected for a Churchie U11s XV tour of some of the best Kiwi rugby schools. After one of our many defeats, I saw a very fit, tall man of around 35 giving the most lucid and constructive explanation to our boys as to where they were good, but also where they could improve. Turned out he was retained part-time by the school and part-funded by the NZRU to coach their young juniors in U11s, U12s - he was an ex-All Black. They get their best to get the best skills trained in young, and boy can we see the fruits of that in later years.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Kellaway's good; defended like a demon. In a game where NZ were ascendent, he was well marked when Australia were on attack.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
RedsHappy
The Aussies in the second half were OK and outscored the Kiwis - not that it mattered in the end.
If you don't think much of Kellaway from that one game it is fair enough but compared to whom playing against the Kiwis?
Agree with your comparison of the two teams—and also with your comments about the Kiwi kids. I saw it before decades ago. so nothing has changed. I spent my high school years there and the current All Black hooker at the time, an old-boy, used to coach us sometimes.
As I said in my blog of the game: the NZ U20s looked like that they had been coached well from a young age and could fit more easily into a team of strangers than our boys could, because they had the basics earlier.
Some of our youngsters, after U20s, learn their trade on the job in Super Rugby.
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The Aussies in the second half were OK and outscored the Kiwis - not that it mattered in the end.
If you don't think much of Kellaway from that one game it is fair enough but compared to whom playing against the Kiwis?
Agree with your comparison of the two teams—and also with your comments about the Kiwi kids. I saw it before decades ago. so nothing has changed. I spent my high school years there and the current All Black hooker at the time, an old-boy, used to coach us sometimes.
As I said in my blog of the game: the NZ U20s looked like that they had been coached well from a young age and could fit more easily into a team of strangers than our boys could, because they had the basics earlier.
Some of our youngsters, after U20s, learn their trade on the job in Super Rugby.
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Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
With magnay having missed the tournament it seems likely.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^ I assume that you are referring to Magnay as "Big Red". Does that make AK (Andrew Kellaway) "Little Red"?
The Rebels fans call Sam Jeffries and Nic Stirzaker Big Red and Little Red as well.
Maybe we need to come up with more inventive nicknames
Maybe we need to come up with more inventive nicknames
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^ Sean Maloney and Nick McArdle from Fox Sports may be onto something with their Ranga XV project!
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
I agree with your comments Kiap, but nevertheless he did not have anywhere near the impact he had last year playing on the wing, and that was against all comers including the NZ U20s. I also recall he had a game at 15 and was far less influential than as a winger. I think he was almost without peer as a winger but selectors being what they are (and still are) want to convert him to something he perhaps isn't because he looks so good in his natural position.
It's hard to tell what his natural position is at this stage though.
At school he primarily played fullback.
Last year as a youngster in the U20s and then in the NRC he played on the wing.
If you ask Andrew Kellaway what his preferred position is, he'll tell you 13.
I agree with you though that with a good backline, he looks sensational on the wing. His game awareness and finishing ability are superb. The number of tries he scores without seemingly doing anything is quite incredible but I think is testament to how good his rugby smarts are. He just knows where to be and when.
At school he primarily played fullback.
Last year as a youngster in the U20s and then in the NRC he played on the wing.
If you ask Andrew Kellaway what his preferred position is, he'll tell you 13.
I agree with you though that with a good backline, he looks sensational on the wing. His game awareness and finishing ability are superb. The number of tries he scores without seemingly doing anything is quite incredible but I think is testament to how good his rugby smarts are. He just knows where to be and when.
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Bobby Sands
Guest
Definitely an easy swap and both will be in the backline, but I just thought having some punch in-close would be handy. Obviously the more touches Kellaway gets the better, so all things considered it will depend on where they want Kel to be when he get's the ball.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
NZ squad is out, 8 returning from last year & 10 with Super Rugby and/ or ITM experience:
New Zealand Under-20 squad: Forwards: Isileli Tu'ungafasi, Tau Koloamatangi, Aidan Ross, Atunaisa Moli, Liam Polwart, Steven Misa, Ricky Riccitelli, Mitchell Dunshea, Geoffrey Cridge, Joshua Goodhue, James Blackwell, Mitchell Jacobson, Blake Gibson, Mitchell Karpik, Akira Ioane, Henry Stowers. Backs: Harrison Levien, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Otere Black, Mitchell Hunt, TJ Faiane, Jack Goodhue, Anton Lienert-Brown, Nathaniel Apa, Tevita Li, Vincent Tavae-Aso, George Bridge, Luteru Laulala.
Coaching staff of Scott "Razor" Robinson with Tana Umaga & Leon MacDonald assisting.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...lacks-in-squad-for-under20-world-cup-in-italy
New Zealand Under-20 squad: Forwards: Isileli Tu'ungafasi, Tau Koloamatangi, Aidan Ross, Atunaisa Moli, Liam Polwart, Steven Misa, Ricky Riccitelli, Mitchell Dunshea, Geoffrey Cridge, Joshua Goodhue, James Blackwell, Mitchell Jacobson, Blake Gibson, Mitchell Karpik, Akira Ioane, Henry Stowers. Backs: Harrison Levien, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Otere Black, Mitchell Hunt, TJ Faiane, Jack Goodhue, Anton Lienert-Brown, Nathaniel Apa, Tevita Li, Vincent Tavae-Aso, George Bridge, Luteru Laulala.
Coaching staff of Scott "Razor" Robinson with Tana Umaga & Leon MacDonald assisting.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...lacks-in-squad-for-under20-world-cup-in-italy
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