2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[Mr Pilfer]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but does anybody else think the whole structure sucks? It just seems too cut throat. You can have one off day, lose a close game and you are gone. Especially harsh when other teams (ie NZ) also lose one game and still get through.

What about 2 pools of 6 teams play 5 games each and then top 2 go into the semi's. Will be a couple more games than now but at least you could win 4 games and lose 1 and probably still make the semi's.

 

[I like to watch]

Four pools of 3, with the top 2 of each pool going through to quarters,makes the most sense to me.

 

[qwerty51]

I think they should split the competition.

2 divisions of 8:

New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, England, Wales, Ireland, France
Italy, Scotland, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Japan, Canada, USA

2 Pools of 4. Top 2 in each pool goes through to the semis.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's certainly a tough tournament but I don't know that they'd be likely to extend it to 5 pool games. There's certainly no way you could do that without spacing out the games a bit more than they already are. Four day turnarounds are tough when you're doing it for 3 games in the pools but 5 would be over the top in my opinion.

Ideally, the next tier of nations will improve their under 20 ranks and the competition can increase to 16 teams with four pools of four and then quarter and semi finals.

Hawko suggested making it four pools of three teams with only two pool games then quarter finals and semi finals. That would make it easier to make the quarter finals but you'd still be knocked out of the contest after your third game.

 

[Jaghond]

Another suggestion that I have heard is “4 pools of 3 teams”, with each team playing every other team from another pool ( to get the 3 matches in for everyone prior to Q/F’s).

Not perfect, but a workable alternative. A couple of other matters to consider……….
Based on comments above, people have identified that there is a pretty big gap ability-wise between the top half & bottom half of teams participating in this tournament. Brining in another 4 teams ( to take it to 4 pools of 4 teams) wouldn’t necessarily “improve things (IMHO) – with arguably even larger score lines appearing when the “whales” play the “minnows”. 12 seems a pretty good / fair number to me.
The second not insignificant issue is cost.

I imagine that putting a team of 30 up at a hotel costing $250 +/- a night for 3 weeks or so – is going to cost someone about $150k by my (very) rough calculations PER TEAM. ( Using $250 as a really rough guess – but presuming they would stay in a decent hotel with decent food & services etc etc)

Multiply by 12 teams & you get the impression that it isn’t cheap to attend/run such an event. Let alone the no-doubt substantial costs for airfares, venue hire, security, transport to from training & matches, officialdom, etc……

Whilst inviting more teams to participate might be nice in theory, I think it is probably a bit in the “too hard” basket at present.

Interestingly, I can’t see where this tournament has ever been held in Australia……..maybe the cost has something to do with it !

And 2014 is apparently going to be held in Italy…..

 

[Braveheart81]

Sydney Uni prop Matt Sandell has been called into the squad for the remaining two matches.

http://www.waratahs.com.au/Waratahs...s-Aussie-U20s-aim-for-fifth-place-finish.aspx

 

[Hawko]

Sydney Uni prop Matt Sandell has been called into the squad for the remaining two matches.

http://www.waratahs.com.au/Waratahs...s-Aussie-U20s-aim-for-fifth-place-finish.aspx

Given the comp rules for squads, I assume this means someone has gone home injured? Has anyone heard who it might be?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Young Sandell was playing first grade prop for Sydney University last Saturday.

Fairly impressive for a lad in his first year out of School to be in the run on team in a Shute Shield First Grade Front Row.

 

[an observer]

The only injury I am aware of was that to Tevita Vea (apologies if I have not got his name right). He received a nasty concussion and had no idea where he was. But isn't he the reserve hooker? The other forwards looked somewhat healthy despite the cramps and fatigue, or maybe not?

 

[Brian Westlake]

Again, like his Uni compatriot, can play both sides of the scrum

 

[Brian Westlake]

I think your post asking people to put up or shut up regarding who missed out that shouldn't have was good.

It did bring out some responses that in my opinion further clarified that the selectors probably did a good job this year.

Citing that Pulver plays colts vs Natoli playing grade misses the point that the Shute Shield wasn't the selection competition. It was the national championships that both those players went to.

Brian Westlake suggesting players that were already part of the squad should be in the first choice side furthers the argument that the selectors did a good job and the right players were chosen. I find it hard to challenge the coaching team too heavily when they're the ones training the players and putting them through trial games to work out the team they want to select.

Criticising Rowan Perry also seemed a bit strange considering he has been one of our best players.

Moving the under 20s selections to a national championships where all the best players competed against each other seems the best thing they've done in years regarding selections.

Read way too much into me there Brave....

I genuinely think that Perry got there through politics. You could have taken McCalman from Uni, Kamp or Johnson from Randwick, Murphy from Eastwood and three or four from Qld, they would have all acquitted themselves like Rowan.
Whilst efficient, there is nothing that makes him jump up like Sean McMahon. Guys fear McMahon, Perry not so much.

 

[FTS]

Read way too much into me there Brave..

I genuinely think that Perry got there through politics.

Which politics would they have been?
The boy grew up in Alstonville, Country NSW. Has been playing First Grade club footy in Canberra. Made Brumbies 20s, played in the Combined States tournament, made the Combined States team and obviously performed well enough to attend the Australian selection camps, which they played 2 trial games, and obviously did a huge amount of training in front of all coaching staff, and selectors.
Seems a much more likely situation to me that he got there by taking the opportunities presented to him through the new selection process, not politics.

 

[Lee Grant]

I genuinely think that Perry got there through politics.

I don't. Head Coach Adrian Thompson (a selector) told me he was impressed by him as early as the Adelaide tournament (to choose the Combined States team) and Thompson is not the kind of guy that would be interested rugby politics.

Can't see any of the alternatives you mentioned as being superior. Gunn would have been closer than any of them.

Am pleased for Sandell though he looked light to me when he played against the Pampas XV a couple of months ago, yet he played 1st Grade for Uni as THP.

Wow.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

In our first game against Argentina, Rowan Perry was one of our best few players.

His performance on the park seems to comfortably back his selection.

 

[Brian Westlake]

In our first game against Argentina, Rowan Perry was one of our best few players.

His performance on the park seems to comfortably back his selection.

I must be wrong then.

 

[tranquility]

I must be wrong then.

Um?

 

[PaarlBok]

OK so we end up playing the Baby Boks again. Cant get better then this and time for Pollard and his team to stand up and deliver. We'll need to defend well, keep it tight, dominate 1st phase and let Pollard do the damage. I have been watching hiim since u13 days and he always produce the goods in the big matches. Watch him winning a interschools as underdog as a u16 player. His boot is as golden as Naas was in his days. Playing a semi or final against NZ, cant get better then this and any young Saffer rugby players dream.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Losing Hickey will likely hurt us, thought he was prob our best player in the Pool match. I don't hold out too much hope for our boys but if they do go down hope they can at least say they gave 100% effort. No shame in that.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Young Sandell was playing first grade prop for Sydney University last Saturday.

Fairly impressive for a lad in his first year out of School to be in the run on team in a Shute Shield First Grade Front Row.

and that Shute Shield pack in particular, though perhaps not as dominant yet as they usually are

 

[Lee Grant]

Am pleased for Sandell though he looked light to me when he played against the Pampas XV a couple of months ago, yet he played 1st Grade for Uni as THP.

Wow.
.

Apparently hooker Kaitu'u is injured and is home already.

There are two hookers there still, Scoble and Vea, but as I have said a few time in the forums, Sandell threw to the lineout sometimes for Joeys in 2012.

He would be cover for hooker and the four props.

Maybe the coaches read Green and Gold.

Good luck to our boys if Vea has to throw to the lineout too often. He wasn't great at training at Narrabeen.
.