2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[Lee Grant]

What I meant HJ is that the Oz Under 20 teams in the past have been plagued by wrong selections because they haven't had the avenues of assessment as they have, for example, in England.

There they have a 6N Under 20 comp and their team would have a core of players from youth comps in previous years. The lesser players would have been weeded out year by year, and replacements added, from the time they were U/17s.

I called that weeding, filtering.

We can't hope to duplicate their system and have a core of players that has been filtered over a few years but at least we can filter the candidates in any single year.

On paper the U/20 regional trials will filter out players in a way that can't be done by just looking at them in regional camps or academy hit-outs.

Then the national U/20 competition will filter out the lesser players from the regional teams to get the cream for the Australian squad.

This is streets better than the current "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" approach of having camps and a match against Papua New Guinea—though it is more expensive.

And my digression about the new NRC is also apt.

Super Rugby teams have a difficult job in assessing players for Super Rugby from their performances in club rugby alone. They also need a filter.

The new NRC competition will get players playing with and against better players than they have experienced before, which is what they will have to do if they get on the park in Super Rugby.

It is the ideal filter for Super teams and it should see a reduction in the number of duds given Super Rugby contracts or EPS spots in the future.
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[Hugh Jarse]

I think we may have been at cross purposes.

I believe that more filters on the one pathway would result in better processing of the cream that is rising to the top. The proposed JGC -> U18 Development Squads -> U20 Competition ->ARC -> Soup -> Wobs should achieve that.

The thorny question of what to do with Schools: Open U18's vs Schools U18's remains a bit of an speed bump on the proposed pathway.

In the past the plethora of filters has resulted in a dilution of the product as the result of some filtration has been that some of the cream has headed off on a parallel or slightly divergent pathway.

Instead of a stairway up the side of a shapely pyramid, our pathway has resembled a series of goat tracks across the Himalayas.

 

[Lee Grant]

There is a blog up now about the new National Under 20 Championship. Its purpose is to act as a selection trial for the Oz squad to go to the IRB JWC later in the year.

Of course, the training for the boys before they are selected in the three Aussie teams, and the trials they have to participate in as a part of that, are all part of the development process for them.

The blog is here.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/new-aussie-competitions-part-ii-under-20s/

If there are any Canberra people who can help out with match reports (March 21 to March 26) or if a visiting person, maybe a family member of a player, can send some stuff to us, however brief, please let us know in this thread - or by convo if you prefer.

And/or if you can send some photos, please advise.

Don't be shy—the reports don't have to be masterpieces, and we can always put some lipstick and makeup on them.

Cheers
LG

PS—If you have any comments about the content in the blog please make them there, not here. Thanks
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[trevor cork]

A second trial will be played this Saturday for our NSW U20's, (same teams as last Sat) I'm hearing that a major cut will be made after this trial.

 

[Waratard]

A second trial will be played this Saturday for our NSW U20's, (same teams as last Sat) I'm hearing that a major cut will be made after this trial.

If it is the same team as last week it will look somthing like this:

1. Cam Orr
2. Tevita Vea
3. Tom Robertson
4. Cameron Skelton
5. Callum Buckling
6. Sam Croke
7. Jack Dempsey (c)
8. Pat Sio
9. Fabian Natoli
10. Andrew Deegan
11. Tyson Davis
12. Ellis Abrahams
13. ?
14. Andrew Kellaway
15. Jonathan Vaux

 

[tranquility]

Who is this Jack Dempsey and why is he getting such wraps? Did he play a blinder against the kiwis or something similar ?

 

[trevor cork]

If it is the same team as last week it will look somthing like this:

1. Cam Orr
2. Tevita Vea
3. Tom Robertson
4. Cameron Skelton
5. Callum Buckling
6. Sam Croke
7. Jack Dempsey (c)
8. Pat Sio
9. Fabian Natoli
10. Andrew Deegan
11. Tyson Davis
12. Ellis Abrahams
13. ?
14. Andrew Kellaway
15. Jonathan Vaux

Thanks, I was hoping that someone would have the teams, although last week there was two teams, a Blue and White team both with 6 or so reserves, so a total of around 40+ players. I also saw several ''big names'' standing around the sidelines. Any idea of the other team?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There would be a few kids missing from Manly and Uni in the list above.

Maybe I need to recalibrate my Under 20's cohort radar.

 

[Forcefield]

Who is this Jack Dempsey and why is he getting such wraps? Did he play a blinder against the kiwis or something similar ?

Played in last years U20s. Pretty sure he started most if not all of the games. Played very, very well in my opinion. He and Pat Sio will form part of a strong back row in the U20s I reckon.

 

[Waratard]

Played Shute Shield at Gordon, I think he was invited to tour with the 'Tahs towards the end of the season aswell. (correct me if i'm wrong).

 

[Micheal]

If it is the same team as last week it will look somthing like this:

1. Cam Orr
2. Tevita Vea
3. Tom Robertson
4. Cameron Skelton
5. Callum Buckling
6. Sam Croke
7. Jack Dempsey (c)
8. Pat Sio
9. Fabian Natoli
10. Andrew Deegan
11. Tyson Davis
12. Ellis Abrahams
13. ?
14. Andrew Kellaway
15. Jonathan Vaux

For those asking, as someone said Dempsey plays Grade at Gordon and was one of the players of the class of 2012 earmarked by all those who saw him to make something of his rugby. He's got a great running game, is full of mongrel and seems to have put on a bit of size over the last year which can only help. I, as does everyone, expect big things from him over the next year or so.

From last weekend, I thought Vea had a decent game, but was unaware that Fainga'a from Sydney Uni Colts was his counterpart in the Blue jersey. I've heard huge raps on him from the players there and he'd definitely be one to keep an eye out for tomorrow.

Cameron Skelton was impossible to miss on the field, but I feel like he takes after his older brother, and is a couple of years off being the real deal. He seems to carry a bit of puppy fat and seems a bit awkward at times, but the potential in his size alone is undeniable.

Calum Buckling won't be playing tomorrow as he dislocated his shoulder last weekend in a tackle, and should be replaced by Ned Hanigan (Joey's 2013). Its a real shame as I've followed him for a few years now and I really can't emphasise enough how good of a player he is. He's your archetypal enforcer in defence and over the last year (he was Sydney Uni Colts Best and Fairest Player 2013) he seems to have developed a strong running game aswell, as he showed last weekend. I'd say he and Pat Sio were clearly the two dominant forwards in their first half vs Country last weekend, and as Forcefield said above Sio is pretty much a shoe in for Aus u20's this year. It'd be interesting to have seen how Buckling went over the next few weeks had he not gotten injured. I wish him a speedy recovery.

Fabian had a good game aswell, although he was behind the strongest pack in the White Jerseys, and seemed to get the most game time, so it'll be interesting to see how other halfbacks such as Pulver and Ferris fare tomorrow.

Kellaway had his usual game - he never fails to impress. It was interesting though to see him shifted to 10 at one stage - I thought it was peculiar when Scots played him their last year at the start of the GPS season. For my he's always been a natural winger, and as he goes further with his rugby I think he'll play more and more there. Because of how good he is theres a temptation to put him at Fullback, but he's an incredible finisher and a tad selfish with the ball, and so IMO wing suits him best.

For me, Deegan and Vaux were the real surprises of the day. I was sceptical how Deegan would go against the bigger boys once he left school, as even in Year 12 he looked tiny in comparison to some of the people he played against, but he plays about 20 kilograms above his weight. He never shies away from contact in attack or defense, and is known to take the ball to the line. Apart from a few errors he played solidly and looked genuinely threatening at times. Unfortunately for him, Vaux also plays 10, and so does Horwitz and Hodge (and I'm sure theres others) who are all probably above him in the pecking order. But by all means he's still got next year to play for and if he continues at this rate I'm sure he'll end up there.

Finally, Vaux looked extremely threatening from the back in attack and made more tackles in defense than I can remember him making at schoolboy level. Seeing as he's been sidelined for so long I was really impressed with his performance. Definitely one to watch for.

Anyway thats it for now, I'll try to comment on tomorrow for those who can't make it.

I just realised how long this has been - excuse the rant haha. Its been a long time since I've had much rugby to talk about. Bring on the 2014 season!

 

[Lee Grant]

Keep the rants coming—it was good stuff.

I tried to get to the trial game today at The Loop but started out too late (from Collaroy) and had to turn around before the SHB because the Saturday morning traffic was bumper-to-bumper.

In my defence I got back late from the Waratahs' trial in Newcastle and had to finish my blog on the game in the early hours and had to sleep-in.

When I spoke to Michael Cheika last month he said he had other trials for the NSW Colts hopefuls before the team for the Canberra U/20s Championship was selected—against the Fiji and Argentine PRC teams—and maybe a fifth one against a club team.

You seem to be "in the know"; so could you advise where, when (including what time) these games will be played, when you get the info? I eventually get it but they keep things close to their chests.

It is a pity about Buckling as I have heard that he is one of those players who have blossomed since leaving school and I was looking forward to seeing him as an Under 20.

I was surprised that Pat Sio was in the NSW group because he was training for a time with the Brumbies with brother Scott, but I am glad to see him still in the city because he plays a hard game. He performed well in the IRB JWC last year and 2014 should be even better.

Agree about Dempsey and his (apparent) bulking up since school and even since the same time last year. He trained with the Waratahs in December and did not look out of place at all. I will be surprised if this hard but skilful flanker is not a Super Rugby squaddie fairly soon.

Disagree slightly about Kellaway, but that is neither here nor there. I thought he was the best schoolboy player in the country in 2013 and he played at fullback. I think that is his future as he is more than a finisher, though he should start on the wing if he is brought to senior rugby before his time.

Deegan—this smallish fellow continues to surprise me, yet not surprise me, in a way. He was as brave as a rooster playing flyhalf in the 1st XV in Year 10 for Joeys, and continued in that way for the next two seasons.

He was a worthy successor to a great of SJC rugby, Kurtley Beale, and was a better low tackler than Kurtley ever was at that age, though smaller.

As you indicate: 2015 will more likely be Deegan's year to appear in the JWC. Even if he makes the NSW squad, Horwitz will be the likely starter (and Hodge a utility). On the national scene McIntyre and Burton are returning for 2014 so it will be tough to get the 10 jersey.

Your opinion of the class of Vaux didn't surprise because Cheika spoke highly of him to me. I didn't think a whole lot of him as a schools player but trust Sydney University to bring the most out in a lad, and—as we all know—some lads blossom when they get to Colts anyway.
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[Bruce Ross]

I tried to get to the trial game today at The Loop but started out too late (from Collaroy) and had to turn around before the SHB because the Saturday morning traffic was bumper-to-bumper.

In my defence I got back late from the Waratahs' trial in Newcastle and had to finish my blog on the game in the early hours and had to sleep-in.

Lift your game, LG.
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[trevor cork]

Keep the rants coming—it was good stuff.

When I spoke to Michael Cheika last month he said he had other trials for the NSW Colts hopefuls before the team for the Canberra U/20s Championship was selected—against the Fiji and Argentine PRC teams—and maybe a fifth one against a club team.
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Both full trial teams are still together (no culling yet) They have moved the trials to T G Milner and are up against the Argentine touring team on Saturday. Some good U20 rugby to be seen!!

edit;; couldn't make last Saturday's trial, hoping for a summary from Micheal!

 

[Lee Grant]

What time tc?

 

[Micheal]

Sorry guys I actually couldn't make it out last weekend so I have very little to report, but a friend that was there sent me this:

"Tahs blue played Tahs white for the first 40 mins and then white played Randwick Colts / 2nd Grade for a while and Blue played the second half. Then the Tahs Super B played Randwick 1st grade and a few u20s played aswell. Johnny Vaux played well, Gus Pulver played well, Mitch Whiteley also good aswell as Pat Sio. Will Davies and Ellis Abrahams both go hard and impressed."

Take from that what you will haha, its not the most comprehensive report but its good to see the u20s lads getting some time against 1st and 2nd Grade opponents (although some of them played there last season). He also told me in person that Hugh Roach had a cracker for the Super B side which Cheika would be happy with as both Roach and Latu really need to step up if TPN gets injured.

And Lee the game is this Sunday at 3pm at TJ Milner. What a day of footy!

 

[Micheal]

Sorry, the game is 3pm at TJ Milner this SATURDAY against a touring Argentina side.

Also, its interesting to note that after two good performances Johnny Vaux has been promoted to the Super B side thats playing on Sunday as a curtain raiser for the Tahs, alongside Dave Horwitz. Goodluck to these two u20s.

 

[trevor cork]

Happy to be corrected, but I think it's the Waratah A's (all ages) playing on Sunday @ 3pm vs the ACT Brumby A's, and the Waratah U20's (colts, both squads) playing on Saturday, also @ 3pm vs the Argies. At TG Milner.


PS. Good to see Roach's name pop-up again after going into the record books, a couple of years ago, as a most capped Aussie Schoolboy.

Edit: ARH! you got in as I was typing!! you must be at lunch as well!!

 

[Lee Grant]

Just to summarise:

The senior game is on Sunday. The NSW team (called "Gen Blue") is playing the Brumby Runners in a curtain-raiser to the Tahs v Force Super Rugby game.

There are no Under 20 players in this side except for David Horwitz (starting) and Johnny Vaux (reserves).

Apparently this a part of an official competition between the reserve teams.

I have just listed the full Gen Blue team in the Waratahs' thread.

The Under 20's game is on Saturday afternoon.

…the Waratah U20's (colts, both squads) playing on Saturday, also @ 3pm vs the Argies. At TG Milner.

……"both squads" ……This threw me: Trevor, did you mean that there are two games on Saturday afternoon at TG Milner??
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[trevor cork]

Just to summarise:

The senior game is on Sunday. The NSW team (called "Gen Blue") is playing the Brumby Runners in a curtain-raiser to the Tahs v Force Super Rugby game.

The Under 20's game is on Saturday afternoon.


……"both squads" ……This threw me: Trevor, did you mean that there are two games on Saturday afternoon at TG Milner??
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Sorry Lee, bad wording, I should have said "both teams'' as there are 2 x U20 teams trialing, White & Blue.
I've been told they will play each-other, then each, have a further 40 mins against the touring Argenitian side, so 3 x 40 min games. All clear!!