So who's winning?
I suggest walk away from the computer, go outside, inhale deeply and yell "FAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!"
It will be more cathartic.
It helped me.
2012 S15R12 Stormers vs Waratahs @ Newlands
- Thread starter PaarlBok
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I suggest walk away from the computer, go outside, inhale deeply and yell "FAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!"
It will be more cathartic.
It helped me.
Badger
Bill McLean (32)
It wouldn't surprise to see them only pick up bonus points for losing by less than 7 points for the rest of the season. Doubt they will get any for a four try win or a win at all for the rest of the season. For the long term good of the team, it would be for the better if they didn't win again. Then maybe they will face the reality of the situation they find themselves in. Otherwise, if they string a few wins late in the season, they could delude themselves into thinking things are coming together and they will build on it in 2013.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Bardon and Gnostic: so well put. Ever more so as your assessments correspond perfectly with the recent history of genuine change in our State RUs.
Namely, real and substantial change only comes when the local franchises have gotten to a point of a disastrous outcome or near-death experience. The 2009 QRU and the 2011 ACTRUs are the cases in point. These crises led to profound changes in either or all of coaches, culture, management, player selection and method of constructing a winning team. The results have been convincing and powerful.
In the case of both RugbyWA and the NSW RU, essentially, and as led by the national body's consistently poor example, there is no sense of proper accountability and responsibility for results of the kind required for a viable rugby business over time. So we see eloquent excuses, 'external factors', the tinkering with marginal changes, no management resignations after major promises unfulfilled, injuries are ironically good news as they create accountability-shifters, internal promotions are always preferred, no real new blood is introduced, etc.
It's the perpetuation of systems that are able to get away with continuous poor delivery as there are no 'shareholders' or governing bodies that call for improved results or essential management changes when reasonable targets are not met, and repetitively not met.
In this antiquated and insular world, it's axiomatic that change only occurs when results are so horrendous and the problems so deep that the very existence of the entity is threatened, or a board has nowhere to turn than to face an imminent reality of self-destruction, then, at last, we see decisive action. We see the required renewal.
Enter Ewen McKenzie, new Reds culture, etc, etc. Enter Jake White, new Brumbies culture, etc, etc.
Could we conceive of a better way to develop the code in Australia, of course. But is deep crisis the only way genuine change emerges in contemporary Australian rugby, yes, it is. Hence Bardon, your excellent last post re the crisis at the Tahs that is needed to incite the genuine changes so obviously called for.
And yet the Tahs never throw off a 'good enough and big enough' crisis so that real change never emerges. Each year things are 'close enough', the injuries are big enough, the losses are 'explainable', there are 'plenty of positives', 'the scrum was first class', 'we have got near the top last year', and so on.
No one is ever responsible, small changes are made that actually change nothing but yet can be readily justified, the positions and personnel of privilege remain in place as there's no revolutionaries burning down the palace doors. Like mediocre politicians that never face an election.
Namely, real and substantial change only comes when the local franchises have gotten to a point of a disastrous outcome or near-death experience. The 2009 QRU and the 2011 ACTRUs are the cases in point. These crises led to profound changes in either or all of coaches, culture, management, player selection and method of constructing a winning team. The results have been convincing and powerful.
In the case of both RugbyWA and the NSW RU, essentially, and as led by the national body's consistently poor example, there is no sense of proper accountability and responsibility for results of the kind required for a viable rugby business over time. So we see eloquent excuses, 'external factors', the tinkering with marginal changes, no management resignations after major promises unfulfilled, injuries are ironically good news as they create accountability-shifters, internal promotions are always preferred, no real new blood is introduced, etc.
It's the perpetuation of systems that are able to get away with continuous poor delivery as there are no 'shareholders' or governing bodies that call for improved results or essential management changes when reasonable targets are not met, and repetitively not met.
In this antiquated and insular world, it's axiomatic that change only occurs when results are so horrendous and the problems so deep that the very existence of the entity is threatened, or a board has nowhere to turn than to face an imminent reality of self-destruction, then, at last, we see decisive action. We see the required renewal.
Enter Ewen McKenzie, new Reds culture, etc, etc. Enter Jake White, new Brumbies culture, etc, etc.
Could we conceive of a better way to develop the code in Australia, of course. But is deep crisis the only way genuine change emerges in contemporary Australian rugby, yes, it is. Hence Bardon, your excellent last post re the crisis at the Tahs that is needed to incite the genuine changes so obviously called for.
And yet the Tahs never throw off a 'good enough and big enough' crisis so that real change never emerges. Each year things are 'close enough', the injuries are big enough, the losses are 'explainable', there are 'plenty of positives', 'the scrum was first class', 'we have got near the top last year', and so on.
No one is ever responsible, small changes are made that actually change nothing but yet can be readily justified, the positions and personnel of privilege remain in place as there's no revolutionaries burning down the palace doors. Like mediocre politicians that never face an election.
mjw
Larry Dwyer (12)
How about B Foley, Pakalani, Lopeti Timani, Douglas - all same age as Horne.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
So who's winning?
I suggest walk away from the computer, go outside, inhale deeply and yell "FAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!"
It will be more cathartic.
It helped me.
Its the only argument I'll win in a house of women.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
good point WJ, they gave Kingston a full contract in the off season, then were too scared to use him for a year, how much game time has Peterson had?
Peterson hasn't had any Super Rugby game time yet, but I'd argue that he isn't really ready and is better served playing club rugby.
Now that our season is well and truly gone and we could be without Timani and Mumm, Peterson should get a couple of runs off the bench to give him some preparation for next season.
Now that our season is well and truly gone and we could be without Timani and Mumm, Peterson should get a couple of runs off the bench to give him some preparation for next season.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
every player develops differently, i think Kingston is coming on in leaps and bounds this year, does that say he couldnt have last year, no, but maybe a year of off the bench, being round the team more and experience has led to better performances.
just playing someone isnt developing them.
Kurtley was thrown in to early, he suffered due to it. Lopeti is getting experience, making equal good and bad mistakes, is he ready to start, not in my opinion but it doesnt mean he isnt developing.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Just playing someone is not developing them, but it is an integral part of it!
You cannot develop them if you do not give them game time.
Talk to Peterson, I bet he is gutted. he keeps seeing guys who he was ahead of 3 years ago, two years ago and a year ago getting game time and succeeding at other franchises.
How did they know wher Pyne or Neville were up to it?.... they gave them a run
You cannot develop them if you do not give them game time.
Talk to Peterson, I bet he is gutted. he keeps seeing guys who he was ahead of 3 years ago, two years ago and a year ago getting game time and succeeding at other franchises.
How did they know wher Pyne or Neville were up to it?.... they gave them a run
The Tahs appeared to want to mirror the game plan executed by the Crusaders against the Stormers, the Tahs just didn't execute as well.
The Crusaders in their game against the Stormers kicked the ball 43 times to the Stormer 44
http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match15577.html
The Tahs actually kicked only 35 times to the Stormers 39
http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match16515.html
The Crusaders in their game against the Stormers kicked the ball 43 times to the Stormer 44
http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match15577.html
The Tahs actually kicked only 35 times to the Stormers 39
http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match16515.html
I thought Pakalani chased the kicks pretty well.
I think field position is something the Waratahs have needed to play more of this season, mostly because our red zone defence has been poor. We have conceded points far too easily this season when teams have had the ball in our 22. The kicking from Barnes and Foley in the second half was pretty good on the whole.
Our discipline and errors at crucial times let us down. Kepu dropping the pass 5m out from the line could have made all the difference.
Elsom and Mumm gave away far too many penalties and Elsom made plenty of errors. I've always been a fan, but the Tahs will be in a better position if Elsom can't exercise his option for next year and moves on. It does not appear that Elsom should be the person leading the team.
We have not scored nearly enough tries this season. It has to be considered for next season (and perhaps the remainder of this one) that Foley must be worth trying at 10, Barnes at 12, and Ashley-Cooper at 15. From his form this season, it is clear that at 22 years old, Foley is a star in the making and his maturity and decision making is already very good, despite his lack of experience. There is every chance that he is the 10 the Waratahs have been looking for to build a championship team around.
I think field position is something the Waratahs have needed to play more of this season, mostly because our red zone defence has been poor. We have conceded points far too easily this season when teams have had the ball in our 22. The kicking from Barnes and Foley in the second half was pretty good on the whole.
Our discipline and errors at crucial times let us down. Kepu dropping the pass 5m out from the line could have made all the difference.
Elsom and Mumm gave away far too many penalties and Elsom made plenty of errors. I've always been a fan, but the Tahs will be in a better position if Elsom can't exercise his option for next year and moves on. It does not appear that Elsom should be the person leading the team.
We have not scored nearly enough tries this season. It has to be considered for next season (and perhaps the remainder of this one) that Foley must be worth trying at 10, Barnes at 12, and Ashley-Cooper at 15. From his form this season, it is clear that at 22 years old, Foley is a star in the making and his maturity and decision making is already very good, despite his lack of experience. There is every chance that he is the 10 the Waratahs have been looking for to build a championship team around.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Like is insufficient.
I would be very happy seeing the Tahs pursue a rebuilding / development strategy that truly looks towards the future and lose some games badly in the process rather than try desperately to eke out another bunch of losing bonus points with poorly executed rugby.
I would be very happy seeing the Tahs pursue a rebuilding / development strategy that truly looks towards the future and lose some games badly in the process rather than try desperately to eke out another bunch of losing bonus points with poorly executed rugby.
We also need to look closely at our lock options for next season.
With Mumm gone and Vickerman very likely not to play again, we're looking at having Douglas and Timani with Peterson on the bench. Whilst Timani and Douglas are both great, Peterson has no experience and needs to be blooded during the rest of the season (and quite possibly will have to if Timani has a serious shoulder injury).
Unless Vickerman makes an amazing comeback, he surely has to be let go and we will need another lock. It will be a tough choice as to whether we try and recruit someone decent, or get a young player with potential and rely on Peterson as our reserve lock.
With Mumm gone and Vickerman very likely not to play again, we're looking at having Douglas and Timani with Peterson on the bench. Whilst Timani and Douglas are both great, Peterson has no experience and needs to be blooded during the rest of the season (and quite possibly will have to if Timani has a serious shoulder injury).
Unless Vickerman makes an amazing comeback, he surely has to be let go and we will need another lock. It will be a tough choice as to whether we try and recruit someone decent, or get a young player with potential and rely on Peterson as our reserve lock.
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
Feel for the Tahs myself, they put a plan together, mostly delivered on it, against the most well rounded team in the competition, at home, saw a try scored against them when any competent ref would have stopped play, and actually played a better second half than first.
Is WJ the only true fan in NSW? Perhaps the biggest problem in NSW is the media and fanbase?
Is WJ the only true fan in NSW? Perhaps the biggest problem in NSW is the media and fanbase?
I got up at 3am on Sunday morning and watched the game.
I've been a member for a number of years and have no plan to change that.
How do I become a true fan? Change my username to WaratahBraveheart?
I've been a member for a number of years and have no plan to change that.
How do I become a true fan? Change my username to WaratahBraveheart?
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Mostly delivered on it, sums it up, as they do every week.
If you believe the Stormers would not have found another way to win had their try been disallowed, then you have not watched enough of the Tahs.
Ath, the biggest problem with the Tahs is the fairy tale, "The Emporer has no clothes". Every time Foley stumps up with his patter after the game all I see is his jiggly bits. Someone needs to tell him nobody believes in fairy tales anymore.
If you believe the Stormers would not have found another way to win had their try been disallowed, then you have not watched enough of the Tahs.
Ath, the biggest problem with the Tahs is the fairy tale, "The Emporer has no clothes". Every time Foley stumps up with his patter after the game all I see is his jiggly bits. Someone needs to tell him nobody believes in fairy tales anymore.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Apparently wishing your team was the best is true fandom. Having your own opinion about how they should do that is betrayal.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Bit harsh, there are a heap of fans on here, grumbling about the Tahs is far cooler than cheering I will grant that, but everyone is entitled to there opinion as long as they buy a ticket now and then.
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