2012 S15R12 Stormers vs Waratahs @ Newlands

[Torn Hammy]

Very disappointing game to watch. The Tahs tried hard but were a rudderles rabble. We must do better with the amount of quality ball provided by the forwards.

When you kick that often your game plan relies heavily on your back three. Our back three aren't going to scare too many teams while AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne hardly touch the ball. The backs look to be playing without any confidence when they have ball in hand.

 

[Blue]

I didn't watch the game... what did he do this time?

Pushing and shoving after the whistle. Like a fox terrier that thinks he has a chance against a rotweiller.

I'm probably making something out of nothing but he irritates me almost as much as Waterboy Carter.

 

[cyclopath]

Very disappointing game to watch. The Tahs tried hard but were a rudderles rabble. We must do better with the amount of quality ball provided by the forwards.

When you kick that often your game plan relies heavily on your back three. Our back three aren't going to scare too many teams while AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne hardly touch the ball. The backs look to be playing without any brain when they have ball in hand.

This works too. "Idea" and "Clue" also slot in nicely.

 

[Jnor]

Ouch. Feel free to quote me for the review. Like, make that the entire review.

Haha thanks for that, it's certainly very tempting

 

[rugbysmartarse]

It seems as though the tahs coaches read the statistics on the crusaders game and devised a kicking game plan without watching the match and looking at the type of kicking the saders employed. Or worse, there was zero plan, just an instruction to kick (kick what's in front of you?)

On the upside with nothing left to play for maybe we can try some new things?

 

[mjw]

First half was terrible. I thought they got better in the second half but never looked like winning it. A shocker from Rocky.

 

[maxdacat]

Random observations​

• The Stormers scrum has gone to that toilet in Trainspotting

What a great analogy!

 

[kiap]

Both teams out there last night play an excruciating kind of rugby. The Stormers are better at it and are able to grind out wins.

That's the thing with the Tahs, the 6 point away loss was no disgrace but they just played so much dumb and boring rugby. When they eventually tried to attack, they started looking half a chance, but it looked like they suffered through lack of practice. They haven't been out there honing those skills under match conditions, so it's no surprise when they fail.

Stormers at home will continue to be a tough team, but if they need to score tries in one of the finals they could be in similar trouble.

The Tahs need to sign a new board, administration, coaching team, cleaner, cook, tea lady, gardener, driver, person who paints the lines. That should do it.

Amen.

 

[en_force_er]

I think the Waratahs miss Phil Waugh's leadership more than we thought they would.

He did get them out of back-against-the-wall situations more often than not and every Waratahs game for the last 3 weeks have been painted as "must win".

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Favourite moment: Joubert to Elsom "if you want me to award them less penalties you could just do what the law requires you to do"

 

[waratahjesus]

I've watched it twice now. As frustrated as I was watching it live, I think the Tahs tactics were right on the money, the only time they didn employ it correctly was in the 15-20 before half tie and that was were the game was lost.

The kicks seemed terrible and some of them were but fact of the matter was they were resulting in the Tahs keeping field position. When executed well in the second half it really out the Tahs on the acendency, the main problem seems to be confidence in key moments, so many close losses seems to have translated into players looking and playing quite tense when the games in the balance and as a result they are making stupid mistakes.

Most frustrating thing was the Tahs created enough chances to win, they were there own enemy for about the 4th loss this year and that to me is the onl thing wrong with them. (it's a massive thing but I still don't buy into the doom and gloom)

Props to the props, our scrum has been sensational this year and again deserve credit.

I thought Horne had a great game, his defense was brutal (nit sure if he missed many though)

One thing I have to say is, it still shocks me how negative the perception of the Tahs is. Last year the reds played an equally boring game, with a ton of kicking, some as bad as last night, only difference was quade scored an individual try and won the game. They were praised for there ability to adapt tactics and play the stormers out of the game, the waratahs do the same thing and fall just short, they should "sack everyone and start again". Just saying

 

[kiap]

I think the Waratahs miss Phil Waugh's leadership more than we thought they would.

He did get them out of back-against-the-wall situations more often than not and every Waratahs game for the last 3 weeks have been painted as "must win".

No way.

Tahs haven't just been under-performing for the one season since Waugh left; it's been many seasons. Waugh was a phlegmatic leader but he was part of the problem in his time toward the end. Should have been cut years earlier and shipped off to Europe, or wherever. He stifled the leadership potential of other players at NSW.

 

[Blue]

One thing I have to say is, it still shocks me how negative the perception of the Tahs is. Last year the reds played an equally boring game, with a ton of kicking, some as bad as last night, only difference was quade scored an individual try and won the game. They were praised for there ability to adapt tactics and play the stormers out of the game, the waratahs do the same thing and fall just short, they should "sack everyone and start again". Just saying

Difference was that the Reds had numerous moments of brilliance in most games that made them seem more exciting as a whole. Guys like Cooper, Genia and Iaone would rip it out of broken play now and then so people end up with the perception that they run it so much more than they really do.

 

[I like to watch]

perception is reality!

 

[Gnostic]

Well after three watches of the match here are my thoughts and laughable describes best some of the previous comments.

First Half :-
15 kicks in play from hand. 2 executed well about the 8min mark from Barnes, ball in contestable position results in turnover and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) chips to tackle receiver over the try line. The one and only real threat from the Tahs in the first half. That marks 13% of kicks the Tahs made as being well executed or contestable. 13 F*&^%$% percent This includes a kick from McKibbon from a tunover which was fielded by the Stormer's winger on the full. Poor kick and poor decision.

The first Stormer's try was directly from a series of play that started from the ineffectual and aimless kicks from Barnes. at the 16th minute.

Another ineffectual kick from Foley at the 20min Marke led directly to a 50m gain to the Stormers.

Contrast this kicking with the kick return of the Stormers, most especially at the 36 min mark taking play from their 22 to the Tahs.

Kepu was walking to rucks and laying on them from the 10th minute.

Elsom conceded 3 Pens and kocked on at the back of the Ruck. The third penalty at 29 min leads directly to Stormers 2nd try. These penalties are not deabatable, Elsom was correctly penalised on each occassion.
Mumm conceded 3 penalties one of which could be considered harsh as he realeased and move to the side and did not impede the ball or its play.

Second Half:-
On first viewing one would think the tactics changed after half time with the Tahs. They APPEARED to run the ball more. They did not. 22 kicks. The big point of difference is we have 7 well executed or contestable kicks (one of which I have classified generously as Habana had support players and plenty of time to kick himself but he hesitated and went into contact and held on.). One other well executed kick by Pretorious was massively let down by only Pakalani chasing. So we went from a disgusting rate of 13% to a disappointing rate of 32% being well executed. Is that acceptable? Not IMO.

The Tahs upped the urgency in the second 40 and took three quick lineouts and ran with more purpose. One of these moves led to the try for the Tahs. However, they did not at any stage have any support runners in motion, there were few effective offloads, most likely because nobody was ever in a position to take one. There was only one instance of a player backing up to be involved in the play twice.

Points to consider:-

Nobody can dount the effort of the Tahs in most cases, though I have serious concerns about Kepu's application away from the scrum as I saw too many occassions of him walking behind the defenisve line or standing hands on thighs behind the ruck.

The reason people perceive the Tahs as playing a boring game isn't because they kick more. Though people think they do and wrongly so. It is because as I showed above they kick poorly. 13 and 32 percent respectively do not lie and this was one of their better perfromances away from their lay down Sally performances of the past like against the Cheetahs in 2011.

I stated in my opening sentence that some previous comments were laughable. I find it so because if the correct game plan was played why couldn't anybody execute kicks from hand with better effect than 13% and 32% in each half respectively. With such a dominant pack display at the scrum and parity at the breakdown the whole team did not make the gain line with any consistancy to my eye, and I wasn't going to sit through it a fourth time to record that stat.

I still rate Elsom as one of the worst signings the Tahs have ever made, up there with Cross and Tahu IMO. Mowen has done very well by moving to the Brumbies and is prospering under a coaching and management regime that actually has some understanding of how to play to win. The second reason why previous posts are laughable, because again we have the excuse that the Tahs have played one of the top sides and come within a whisker of winning. Even given a boost in its excusehood by saying hwo the mighty Tahs travelled away for this loss. Whoopee. I called their season over 6 weeks ago, but for their sake they still had a mathematical chance to stick up the realists (not pessimists as some like to dismiss us as) so they had no shortage of motivation.

The Tahs Lineout is poor. How many loose tap backs did McKibbon get? I counted 5 some of which ended up being turnovers to the Stormers. Some will argue that TPNs loss caused this but it was no better with him there. Last year Mowen was one of the Tahs go to jumpers and rated extremely highly for turnovers of opposition ball. Who fills that roll this year. Dennis has been the Tahs best loosie but does have Mowens lineout skill. Elsom has played two games and part of another and never had the lineout ability of Mowen. Timani, sorry I do not rate him as others do for all his size he will have a blinder one game and be absent the next two. The Tahs have gone from being a dominant lineout to being under extreme pressure this year IMO because sof the loss of Mowen and a fall in the reliability of TPN's throwing. Correspondingly the Brumbies with two no name locks are very reliable, al be it with the best Hooker in Oz throwing.

But don't let my posting interfere with more "optimistic" reflections.

 

[I like to watch]

Gnostic, my blurry recollection from this morning was that the tahs kicked a lot deeper and to the sidelines in the 2nd half.
right or wrong?

 

[TSR]

WJ, you have to get past your anti-Red thing. The Reds kicked more & scored less tries. But there was no way they were boring.

 

[MrMouse]

Difference was that the Reds had numerous moments of brilliance in most games that made them seem more exciting as a whole. Guys like Cooper, Genia and Iaone would rip it out of broken play now and then so people end up with the perception that they run it so much more than they really do.

The other and more pertinent difference is that the Reds went in to that game last near needing 4 points, basically needing to win at all costs. The Tahs went in to this game needing to win WITH A BONUS POINT to have any chance.

The end.

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic, my blurry recollection from this morning was that the tahs kicked a lot deeper and to the sidelines in the 2nd half.
right or wrong?

Not deeper, but the kicks 3 of actually made touch. but that is only 3 of 22 that made touch. It was the overall execution that was better, kicks landed outside the 22 so could be contested. My initial thoughts on first watching was they kicked less in the second 40, but that shows how wrong such perceptions can be as on second and third wacthings I counted the kicks and found more kicks in the second forty, 32% more. Execution is all that matters. My initial thoughts of them running more proves that a kicking game can look like attacking rugby, it all hinges on the execution not only by the kicker but the rest of the side as well. Indeed the SA comms. commented on this refering to the Tahs poor kicking game and the Stormers, attacking defensive kicks.

 

[MrMouse]

WJ, you have to get past your anti-Red thing. The Reds kicked more & scored less tries. But there was no way they were boring.

To be fair to WJ, he was reflecting on one particular game from last year, where Link and the media both applauded the Reds for being able to go over there and win ugly the way they did.

The tries/kicks thing is a case of public perception, in part driven by the media. But this was all about context (see my post above).

I hold out some vague hope now that the Reds can get their skates on, and someone (the Shorks!) drops their bundle to let us sneak a second team in to the finals. Once a team's in the finals...anything can happen.